The War on Opioids - Time for Re-Evaluation..?

You can still get prescribed opiates. I broke my collarbone and ribs October 2020. They prescribed me oxycodone for 8 weeks prior to surgery and then morphine after surgery.

I always tell them I'm allergic to acetaminophen. One time kaiser prescribed me vicoprofin which was pretty cool and rare.
Yes, exactly.

Just 6 weeks ago I finally came off of prescribed oxycodone. I was on them, with a script, for 14 months following major stomach surgeries, as in the the hospital I was given 20mg 3 times a day at the same time having a fentanyl drip for several weeks.

It was difficult, I'm not ashamed to admit it. But I finally made myself take my scripted dose and finally was able to ween off of them. My PCP wasn't going to give them to me forever, anyway. And I got to the point that I realized I shouldn't be on them forever...it was making my life an utter mess.

But I do have chronic pain from multiple inner abdominal issues and I don't care what anyone says but kratom has been a saving grace for me. I can finally function half normal.
 
It sure reads like a pissing contest.

You want to hear a solution... make all and every drug legal for open trade. Reasonably tax any and all transactions. Keep the money out of big pharma and alow open trade for generics. Let a true "free market" decide fair value of illicit street drugs and pharmaceuticals. Leave drug patent laws in place for continual improvement and development of drugs and to recoup r&d costs. Keep DEA open to insure a FREE and FAIR market for LEGAL business, and quality control. Alone that would take money away from cartels and street pharmacists. Shift the DEA savings and Tax dollars to helping those who WANT help. Also to help persuade the general population to stop dehumanizing people with drug problems. Clean and pure drugs could be bought OTC.

Would be a huge shock to society. Many people don't like this idea. You think opioids are a issue? Look at fucking insulin and other life saving medications. Yes... opioids are a problem, and so are drug companies. You can't help someone who don't want to be helped. Would people die? yes.... Would they have died anyway? Probably, unless they wanted help and couldn't get it. A big influencer of the opioid epidemic was big pharma.... And they also sold them the drugs to try to get them off the shit too.

I don't think it's very common for a man to smoke a bunch of pot or consume a bunch of heroine, come home and beat his wife. He would either be balls deep in his refrigerator, or nodding out on his front porch. Now let's give that same man a bottle of jack daniels..........
The only problem with legalization is that age (maturity) restrictions DO NOT WORK. Kids are smoking pot, delta, and vaping nicotine today and they get it even tho the age is 21. That would not be great with OTC opioids.

And I have said it before. There are TWO FORCES that govern this universe which are LOVE & FEAR. I still say the reason that alcohol has remained legal is that it remains the ONLY SUBSTANCE THAN CAN DESTROY FEAR... And I mean just take a big'ol shit on it...

I thought we were supposed to come home and beat our wives? Is that wrong? L........... O.................. L ....................................
 
The only solution is to end the drug war.

Manufacture all drugs inside of the country, verify quality and dose and then educate the public how to use them safely. All people to buy them without a prescription and with total privacy.

The drug war is pointless. A certain percentage of people in this county are addicts, it's thought that 2 out of every 100 people will become hardcore drug addicts. About 5 out of 100 will have a drug problem and about 12 out of 100 use illegal drugs occasionally.

You can't stop this percentage, it has held since the early 70's.

I suppose you'd have to give these people or young kids a reason for living. The American way of life with it's constant chaos and stress of stirring up shit and noise has people looking for an escape. The American dream as it is right now is a dream and mostly bullshit. People fall flat on their ass and they go to drugs or alcohol to cope.

Most of the problems that lead to drugs are environmental. Remove people from their miserable life circumstances and transplant them into a better situation and much of this drug stuff goes away because people actually have a reason to live.
I appreciate the depth of your thought on the matter. Yes a small percentage are just damnB junkies. I've seen em too. They drink/use just for the sake of the high and don't even have a daddy that beat em... Its crazy its almost like they are demon possessed. They do exist.

The American way of life is indeed almost akin to "California Dreamin". And yes its being reconciled as we speak. Not pretty as in some aspects the DREAM is definitely dead.. COPING is real be it psychological or physical duress. And its real reasons that make people cope. Which begs the point that when you consider REHABS completely deny this just to keep their doors open. Heaven forbid we find out that the substance itself may not be the cause of the problem...
 
This is a simple minded opinion.

I used to be an addict. I do not suffer that affliction anymore. There is a solution, but it is not particularly intuitive. For me it took years of hard work overcoming mostly family and childhood issues before I was ready and able to quit.

It’s just way more complicated than “your weak bro”.

Take for example people who have panic attacks. The instinct after a panic attack is to isolate, which makes it worse. The solution is specific to everyone but usually it’s made of small steps and repeated exposure to stress over time. Not intuitive.

And while yes, substance abuse is a weakness, and makes you weaker, it’s not so simple as “your weak”. Substance abuse is not a permanent condition it can be overcome, but nobody on earth would ever recover if all you did was tell them “get stronger”.
Cut FERRET-TITS some slack. She's having a bad day at the E.D. her son-in-law is back in overdosed on booze and pillz.. :p :oops:

Did you know I read once the avg number of REHABS to get a person straight from "substance over-indulgence" is NINE TRIPS......

You are correct and it takes a lot of individual care, counseling and counter-treatment to help some folks with life's issues. One of the biggest failures in traditions substance rehabilitation is that once you are labeled a substance abuser, this limits the kind of drugs you can be treated with. Whereas you make a good example mentioning anxiety as someone with anxiety could very well have developed a fondness for alcohol now out of control, but once they are CLASSIFIED as defective, this rules out the optimal treatments for anxiety which are benzos. And THEY MIGHT BE SURPRISED to find out that once you treat an anxious person with benzos, that they may not even abuse the benzos once the anxiety is gone.

But again the politic$ involved is the biggest problem..
 
The problem is people are looking at the drugs as the cause of the problem.

Instead of looking for the cause of wanting to do the drugs.

It's like depression. It doesn't just happen out of nowhere, it's very much environmental, it's the situation you find yourself in and that's the problem. Don't just label the depressed person and tell them to snap out of it. Figure out what about their lives is driving them to this state.

America has this incessant need to insist that we all are the same and we all want the same things in life and if you follow the recipe and click your heels together tree times you'll be in a constant state of bliss.

This narrow and shallow focus skips over the complexities of life and replaces it with the typical American answer.....would you like product A, B or C, because that is all America is, just a consumer workaholic death trap.

This many people with this many mental problems can't just be genetic, it has to be environmental, as we know there are other cultures that don't have our material wealth that aren't all strung out on drugs and whacked out of their brains going over the edge. We are living out of balance with our true needs, someone has sold us a huge pile of shit and no one has the courage to skid on the brakes.
Yes, AND /BUT now you are talking about serious coun$eling and care. And yes the mediocrity of life BEGS the BREAK WITH SUBSTANCE. Even be it a pack of cigarettes...

While I slightly agree with another poster around here that there does seem to be an inclination for historical perspective of some genetic lines. And not calling anyone weaker or better. Because EVERYONE has a purpose. BUT MORE ON TRACK is the environmental you speak of. It brings to mind all the poison we are subjected to daily just to get a bite to eat, take a breath of fresh air, or even sit in your damn home without some megasonic wireless signal fricasseeing yer brainz out 24/7. Its all a great chicken/egg conundrum...
 
Drugs are used to break down our defenses and relax the need to guard ones self. It's what allows some people to be comfortable in their own skin. It's largely born out of the problem with people, families, friends, lovers, coworkers lacking the courage to have an undivided consciousness free from all forms of alienation that happens when you live your life in your own body without fear of criticism, instead of living outside of your body, which is what most people have to do on a daily basis to play societies assigned roles.

Until people are grounded and comfortable in their own skin, can be brutally honest with each other instead of trying to save face, then you will continue to have a need for drugs as they look for a substitute for what they really want, which is to live without ego, instead of the hollowness of how they are expected to live always projecting their best face.
STIGMA IS THE UNDERBELLY OF LIFE...
 
I completely agree. Except the manufacturing solely within the USA. Drug prices are way too high within the US as it stands. Many generics manufactured out of country then add the 20,000% markup, it's ridiculous. Many raws for most drugs are manufactured out of country.

I read a article a few months ago that stated something along the lines of... For some drugs it was cheaper for the insurance companies to send people to mexico to get their medications. It included round trip bus fare, plane tickets, taxi's, and a cash reward (few hundred I think) for their troubles and time. their medications were waiting for them at the pharmacy when they arrived. And to say the system is not broken? People driving far out of their way to go to a hospital that is "in network" for a real emergency. Only to get a outrageous bill because their doctor was "out of network"? The entire system is broken, getting worse, and a complete failure.

War on drugs is a complete disaster and did nothing. Same as the DARE program.

Now to say "it's time for opioid reform"? This is the wrong question. Fix the root of the problem. Usually a close proximity grenade blast is not fixed with a band aid. At least within the USA anyways.
I'm getting back on my horse with a disagreement. The "War on drugs" indeed works to some degree. There are different forms of it and there is the FACT that we live is a new technological age of a WORLD SOCIAL NETWORK, as opposed to who you knew in the town you lived in during 1985. The Ronald Reagan era DESTROYED MARIJUANA to the point that I actually came out of the late high school pot fog I was living in and it took me 3 dry months to snap out of it. But Reagan's booster clubs liked their cocaine. And it was flowing.... So there is always going to be one thing at least. But that was then. THE PROBLEM WITH THE DRUG WAR TODAY is indeed that there are too many avenues of supply and so many forms of drugs to choose from. Its a world market now. They are approaching this with old school era tactics that no longer apply. I am not saying I agree with legalizing oxycodone at the local gas station with proper ID.. But I am saying they made a HUGE MISTAKE ripping the carpet out from under the legitimate opioid medical market. The cost of what is happening now is proving EVEN GREATER on multiple levels beyond financial. And may very well destroy an entire generation of children.

I still maintain that they need to back off and REMOVE this pressure from docs. At this point it would even require some encouragement to prescribe to convince them it was not a set up. Which is sad the GRAVITY of the long term damage they have done onto the medical community. BECAUSE A 'MARKET' IS ALL ABOUT SUPPLY & DEMAND. You remove the demand from the illegal importers by restoring the supply from legitimate sources, and things will find a better balance. Better than now. WAY BETTER than where this thing is headed. And no one will listen.

YOU WANT THE TRUTH. The truth is that when a person of influence or power has a need for a medication, THEY GET IT. The difference is we, THE PEOPLE, do not now.... So this is a HUGE OBSTACLE as to ever getting a ranking politician to understand what is happening on the streets AS IT PERTAINS TO MEDICAL OPIOID DEMONIZATION. They just won't even know or realize. How could they when they still get what THEY Need.
 
You can still get prescribed opiates. I broke my collarbone and ribs October 2020. They prescribed me oxycodone for 8 weeks prior to surgery and then morphine after surgery.

I always tell them I'm allergic to acetaminophen. One time kaiser prescribed me vicoprofin which was pretty cool and rare.
It wasn't the collar bone that got you the opioids. It was the ribs that also involve soft tissue and basically very panful and have to heal on their own with a nice wrapper.. Still I know about 90 of 100 docs that would cut you down to some kinda bullshit low grade codeine in a week flat.

On that allergy deal who'd you say that docs was?? Kaiser Soze?? You gots some digits fer me. Hook a bruh up... LOL :p :p :p
 
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You have piss poor genetics is the problem. Unfortunately we propagate weak people like you nowadays, and they go on to reproduce and make other weak people. Natural selection or Eugenics tends to take care of such weak links.

Childhood issues? My God, I never knew so many pussy's lifted weights.

they need their heads kicked in, is what they need. General Patton knew how to take care of wimps, he put a gun to their head.
Now COME ON MANNN.. Even Arnold like hiz Weedzzz.. Are you saying he had inferior genetics. I think we all know there is nothzing finer than ZGerman Kniveszzz.z...
 
I have mentioned in the past that if society insists that drugs remain illegal, then at least make it something that is only confiscated and destroyed with no identification of the person in possession no matter how much they have on them.

Then it would be a true war on drugs and not a "war on people", which is what it really is. If they really cared about stopping drugs then they would just destroy the drugs and let the person go. Right now the drug war only stops about 10% of drugs that come into the country. That's basically nothing, so the only thing I can think they are doing to these poor bastards that get caught is sadism, it's like the Puritans that branded your forehead with the letter of your offense.

I've read my Sunday paper arrest records for several decades and I always count the arrests. 90% of them are for drugs and paraphernalia every single week, the rest robbery, stealing, drunk driving, domestic assault, murder on occasion....
 
I personally don't understand the Fent addiction.

Do you get high or does it just get rid of all your pain?
 
I personally don't understand the Fent addiction.

Do you get high or does it just get rid of all your pain?
FENT is "opioids" squared as I understand it. I have never experienced fentanyl as a recreational drug, but I suspect I have had fake morphine sulfate tabs that were really fentanyl - LOOONG AGO. So imagine a single counterfeit morpine pill and just one tiny grain in it about the size of a spec of salt as the only active component produces the same entire exact feeling that a 100mg morphine pill should produce...

The net sum is that the opioid affects the opioid MU Receptor in the same way just at different intensities depending on the opioid in question.

The whole concept of opioids is that you don't get high if you are in pain. At least not from a Dopamine standpoint. Even if you are in pain you still experience the disconnection, intoxication, and sensation to a significant degree. Its just that the DOP is already under attack by the pain, so the THEORY is that the OPIOID just counters that Negative Dop reaction occurring due to said pain, thus PERHAPS you may not get all of the DOP Gratification if you are really in pain. Its MUCH easier to control and self-modulate if you are using a lower grade opioid like hydrocodone for lesser pain scenarios. Fentanyl is really reserved for surgery and in patch form for very slow administration in significant long term situations, say, as if your body was being eaten up by cancer. I think they even make FEnt lolliepops or used to for cancer scenarios..

I can tell you that I met an anesthesiologist once who was license stripped and admitted to frogging himself with fent during surgeries. I saw him high on Fent once at what looked like a recent pin down. He was a nice shade of pale green/blue and looked like he could projectile vomit and any moment and his pupils were sharper than a ball-point pen.. He was busted.

Other opioids do not hold a candle to fent. Even hydromorphone is only 8 times stronger than morphine (I think I recall), and that one can kill your ass in a hurry at IV strength administration. Contrarily the uptake of ORAL hydromorphone(Dilaudid) is only 50% to IV returned strength. You could almost pop em like Lortabs or mild Roxys if you had a tolerance to those already. At the same time I met a CPRN that stated he had worked up to 300mgs of hydromorphone/day - IV and medical under-hood grade stuff like they mix in hospitals for cancer patients that need 10mgs per shot:eek: o_O ... Right before he went to prison... He was a fukked up individual when that dose was taken away from him. I think he lived thru it... We are talking hydromorphone is dosed in hospital settings at 2mg per 6 hours. So he had quite the tolerance... The BENEFIT of hydromorphone is that it dose not tolerate like morphine and keeps on working dose after dose. Whereas a morphine dose for pain could almost double daily to control real pain for someone with a tolerance..

There is always Carfentanil (elephant tranquilizer). Consider that fentanyl is 800 times stronger than morphine. Carfentanil is many times stronger than fentanyl. There was a period when they were importing Carfent as well and that shit was so dangerous that just getting on your skin was OD'ing cops on drug busts and killing drug dogs via a sniff from a distance.. I suspect the Chinese backed off on the carfent production and import as it was just drawing too much attention and might have led to the reversal of these stupid opioid laws we now suffer under.

Sweet Jesus you BRANG UP some MEMORRAY'ZZZZ... And even with greater experience in hospitals, I was never really interested in anything more than hydrocodone for my pain. Its all just too much and an avenue to hell with those stronger ones. I recall one time injecting hydromorphone on the reg and one time I was standing there in the bedroom talking to my wife and next thing I knew I was standing in a pasture under a large tree with the wind on my face... I was back in like 5 seconds but the interesting part of that was that I was no where near in danger of an Overdose. It was just an example of the otherworldly experience that occurs with these stronger opioids. And hence a significant reasons why society shuns them. They don't want you to escape the box they keep us in. I can tell you its probably not a great idea either. As eventually you dont want to be in this realm any more... After you SEE that there is so much more to existence. Its just taboo for life on earth. So they have killed the lighter opioids for fear they can bring the same enlightenment. But they just don't realize its apples and oranges and not possible with the light stuff. And there was NEVER an issue of the wrong people getting the really strong stuff. So the ban makes absolutely no sense other than to cause chaos... But I have not doubt there is some GRAY between the lines beyond any knowledge base we will ever be privy to..
 
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I personally don't understand the Fent addiction.

Do you get high or does it just get rid of all your pain?

Gets you high like heroin gets you high. All pain killers work that way. It’s much different than an anesthetic.

Anesthetics prohibit nerve pain. With pain killers, heroin, fentanyl etc. you can tell your in pain but you feel so good you don’t care.
 
What does it take to produce fent.

We know you have to be very knowledgeable with organic chemistry to produce something like LSD, but is fent easy and cheap to produce. Or do you have to have thousands in lab equipment and reagents to pull it off.
 
Gets you high like heroin gets you high. All pain killers work that way. It’s much different than an anesthetic.

Anesthetics prohibit nerve pain. With pain killers, heroin, fentanyl etc. you can tell your in pain but you feel so good you don’t care.
Very interesting point if you are comparing putting novacaine on a local physical area to simply kill the nerve response. Never quite compared "anesthetics" to "pain killers' from that standpoint. And still the language there is not quite correct. But kinda nice summize there...
 
Honestly I have no idea but I imagine it’s similar to making hormone raws from scratch. It’s not easy like making meth is easy, at least not that I know of.
 
What does it take to produce fent.

We know you have to be very knowledgeable with organic chemistry to produce something like LSD, but is fent easy and cheap to produce. Or do you have to have thousands in lab equipment and reagents to pull it off.
No idea but its probably a good thing I did not major in chemistry... :oops: :rolleyes::p I would hazard to speculate its not quite as complex are producing a raw testosterone cyp powder, but at the same time it would still require an extensive pharma grade lab, God knowledge, and an expensive jet airplane to get away from the law...

As it turns out the CURE for opioid addiction is pretty simple and easy to produce. Its CRACK COCAINE.. You will forget all about silly opioids.. And I mean QUICK. I have seen it first hand.. And hey. You will wind up dead in 6 months to a year tops.. o_O
 
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Again, my intention is not to turn this thread into a sweet memory of ugly romance. Like the chick with the magic pussy that took you for all you were worth and caused a love suicide. The reference to cocaine is just another example of another incredibly powerful substance that opioid users turn to now and is killing them. And all simply due to having their access to hydrocodone removed. And you ask well how to you relate and move from hydrocodone to oxycodone to dilaudid to heroin & fent to coke??? Its not a far trip with the legitimate medical access paths are removed from you and you then turn to the street... Not far at all... It honestly feels like the powers that be just turned on you and left you for dead. Which is probably akin to what it feels like to be in pain with cancer today and have the doc slap you in the face with a hydrocodone insult to humanity.
 
I'm gonna double down one more. Regardless as to whether Obama himself was personally attempting to kill whitee by sending him to the streets thus "leveling he playing field",,, OR (and giving the benefit of doubt because I really want to believe that Obama is a good person inside) SIMPLY BAD COUNSELING FROM HIS INEPT ADVISORS... The bottom line is that the administration in office that incepted this opioid change of policy KNEW THAT THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS WOULD DIE. They were obviously hoping and clearly MISLED into believing that the damage would be the lesser of two evils. The second evil being where they saw opioid use going.. Well it turns out THEY WERE WRONG. We have barely tipped the iceberg and opioid related deaths are even increasing at a faster rate than ever. KEEP IN MIND THIS DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE TANGENT MATTERS LIKE NEW DRUGS AND SUBSTITUTION DRUG DEATHS. EVEN THE DAMAGE VIA ALCOHOL AS A SUBSTITUTE (which is the worst result occurring). The matter simply should have been approached with MUCH MORE CARE and it easily could have been. The cost of what they have created is going to be CATASTROPHIC... Financially, socially, unequivocally.
 
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