Thoughts on Steroids (And Non-Legal Enhancers) in Martial Arts.

[Jeton]

Bro, you're COMPLETELY missing my point.

I don't think they SHOULD be illegal.

But they ARE illegal.

So using them is cheating. And I'm against cheating.

Also, please don't lump me in with those who attempt to use the Bible to justify there own personal reasons. I deal with this enough, even though the argument has NO MERIT, when used against me.

I am part of a newer movement within the Christian Faith. We HATE being referred to has "religious". Because religion is what a MAN will tell you about the Bible. I don't care what MAN says the Bible says. I've read it, in it's entirity, and I believe every word of it to be true. ANY concept which is not taught CLEARLY, and repeatedly is dismissed by those in my camp. We are NOT one of the "new age" churches which has NO SEPERATION from the world at all, (you know the motivational speakers who just hold a bible and tickle your ears??) Rather, we preach a relationship with Christ. AND THAT"S IT! We believe that God will deal with people in his own way, and in his own time, it is not our job to BEAT points into peoples heads.

UNLESS the point is CLEARLY taught. Such as...."for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

dude ur defending something i wasn't attacking, ur faith. i'm also not arguing that getting caught using AAS in MMA isn't against the rules, just that it SHOULDN'T be.


incidentally, beware that "believing EVERY word" will make u vulnerable to translation variation...back in 1995 i ran across a really cool book called "The Five Books Of Moses", which is intended as a direct semantic translation of the Pentateuch into English.

the end result is VERY different than how those books appear in the King James Bible, just fyi...more incantatory, more poetic and more psychedelic...and more powerful, i felt.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Five-Books-Moses-Leviticus-Deuteronomy/dp/0805211195]Amazon.com: The Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy (The Schocken Bible, Volume 1) (9780805211191): Everett Fox: Books[/ame]

 

[musulman]

oneanddone, i am not slow i am at a place where you seek to be. everything you do is to attain it but it runs further and further away.

you can talk all u want about how ure some mma guy, which dont impress me nor does it make any difference except in your mind, you are big mma, but only in your mind, not anyone elses, you cant control someones view of you so you try and project status, you do this cos you chasing something, missing something compensating for something. but thats not the way toacheive it.

 

[Jeton]

C'mon bro.
Don't argue for the sake of arguing.
yes, the semantics of my statement were strange although not incorrect.
But I wanted to be clear, cheating is a black and white area. But there are small things, (like fouls in basketball) which are not considered CHEATING. But rather gamesmanship. I mean, what extreme do you want to take this to?? In order to not be a cheat would you like to have all players, notify the official, if that official missed a call?? You want everyone to tell on themselves??
That's where I am drawing the line.
If you purposely eye gouge someone that's cheating, and dirty.
If you purposely take a substance which you know is banned from your sport...You're a cheater.
If you throw an elbow which comes from straight from ceiling to floor, and ref misses it.....You don't have to stop and take a point away from YOURSELF!
My position is not difficult to understand. Even for a simpleton like urself.

nice try..+1 for effort, if not consistency.

Jeton likes arguing, i think he enjoys male attention, ignore him.

yes, i like male attention A LOT.

would u kindly detail for us one of the times u raped a man? start off with the setting, and slowly work in details...what were u and he wearing? was there lube involved? what kind of ass did he have? big/small...hairy/smooth...was he virgin or had h been to the rodeo b4? how big is ur dick, cut or uncut, what shape?

those r probably the most interesting things u could add to Meso at this point.

Whoa whoa whoa! I was just taking the obvious statement and personalizing it for musulman who, I'm sure we can all tell by now, is a little slow.

And its not rape anyway, it is surprise sex.[)]

Btw, nice fake edit, had me breaking ribs I was laughing so hard.

 

[Stretch]

Musulman--PLEASE for the love of god dont' respond.

I'm telling you...for the sake of all of our eyes.

Man ass pics are coming!!

I've been down this road before!!!

LMFAO[)][)][)][)][)]

 

[Stretch]

And Jeton...

You did not ATTACK my faith.

but don't forget that the whole...."mental gymnastics" comment kicked off that portion of this discussion.

 

[Jeton]

And Jeton...

You did not ATTACK my faith.

but don't forget that the whole...."mental gymnastics" comment kicked off that portion of this discussion.

well i meant musulman when talking about "gymnastics", tho his actual mental gymnastics were equivalent to rolling around on the floor like a pepper-sprayed 4 year old.

also, i'm not huge on googling image hotlinks, i'd rather see pics of musulman and any of his rape-victims. i need them to...conduct thought experiments.

 

[someanddone]

oneanddone, i am not slow i am at a place where you seek to be. everything you do is to attain it but it runs further and further away.

you can talk all u want about how ure some mma guy, which dont impress me nor does it make any difference except in your mind, you are big mma, but only in your mind, not anyone elses, you cant control someones view of you so you try and project status, you do this cos you chasing something, missing something compensating for something. but thats not the way toacheive it.

Dear God,
Please let me be where musulman is. Please let me spend countless hours bantering with people who are smarter than me and who can't stand me. Please let me live in an efficiency with my sister and mom, reminiscing about the days-of-old, trying to warn against the evils of steroids. Please allow me to continue to stick my dick in unwilling asses. Please allow me to judge everybody else and not understand why I'm not getting through. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.

 

[mrmorris]

+1

preserve life through the use of medication is good because god ultimately will make you well or unwell, god willed you to find a cure so you did. It god had your destiny to be without cure, you would and will die. To say the medication made you well is wrong - god made you well, all power is with him. If he willed the medication would not work. So those who get well with medication who had diseases that would result in them being killed, got well cos god gave them a cure for their test (disease), to show his sign that he exists. So, no that's not genetically programmed to die.

Not being content and appreciative of what god gave and trying to increase the natural potential, or trying to be something else than what you were made is bad and leads to agitation, discontentment, mental problems and unease and spiritual problems. Its just not natural. It's tantamount to 'fighting' with god saying 'i wanted you to make me like someone else, why did you make me like this?' remember god could have made you blind, made you a cripple. Appreciate and accept what god made you and be happy, cos god made you. Be content cos god has written an alternative destiny for you, not one where you become ufc champ or bodybuilding champ, or a chick magnet that screws a different woman every night, or a muscle man who has huge power and muscle, or an alpha male, god has something else for you, accept it and be content as god is testing you. Remember we say the prayers before eating as an appreciation of what god gave to eat. We should be content and appreciative of god in every respect and be content with ourselves.

That is the root of most problems - insecurity, not being content and wanting more and more and not being true to oneself. Trying to be something else. Hence steroid use in order to fight, to get big or what not. Hence penile enlargement, hence boob enlargement, hence the rat race we all find ourselves in - it stems from a common problem - ego, insecurity, not being content or appreciative. Being selfish. This leads to stress, unease, discontentment and the huge increase in mental illness we see in the west

 

[Millard]

But not ILLEGAL.

Which brings a question of MORALITY, and ETHICS.

I don't think they SHOULD be illegal.

But they ARE illegal.

So using them is cheating. And I'm against cheating.

There are a lot of university ethicists who argue that steroids should be allowed in sport: For example:

Andy Miah, Chair in Ethics and Emerging Technologies at the University of the West of Scotland

Julian Savulescu, Professor and Uehiro Chair in Practical Ethics at the University of Oxford

Sidney Gendin, Professor of Philosophy of Law at Eastern Michigan University

Norm Fost, Professor, Director, Program in Bioethics; Chair, UW Hospital Ethics Committee; Department of Pediatrics; University of Wisconsin

William Morgan, professor of sport humanities and interim director of the Center for Sport and Citizenship at Ohio State University in Columbus

 

[Millard]

But not ILLEGAL.

Which brings a question of MORALITY, and ETHICS.

Don't forget there is a big distinction between what is ILLEGAL (prohibited in society) and BANNED (prohibited in sport).

There are quite a few instances where LEGAL drugs are BANNED in sports but perfectly ok for everyone else in society.

 

[Stretch]

There are a lot of university ethicists who argue that steroids should be allowed in sport: For example:

Andy Miah, Chair in Ethics and Emerging Technologies at the University of the West of Scotland

Julian Savulescu, Professor and Uehiro Chair in Practical Ethics at the University of Oxford

Sidney Gendin, Professor of Philosophy of Law at Eastern Michigan University

Norm Fost, Professor, Director, Program in Bioethics; Chair, UW Hospital Ethics Committee; Department of Pediatrics; University of Wisconsin

William Morgan, professor of sport humanities and interim director of the Center for Sport and Citizenship at Ohio State University in Columbus

Right, however, it was never my point to argue that steroids SHOULDN"T be allowed in sports. Only that, since they are NOT allowed, athletes who use them are cheating.

It's not even my opinion, I'm just stating a fact really, it's amazing to me that anyone could ever argue the point. (I know ur not millard) but it's laughable to me. As long as it's cheating to use AAS, the athletes who choose to use are in the wrong.

There are a percentage of athletes out there who are honest to a fault, and who would never use, and I find it very unfair to think that they are competing with athletes who do use AAS.

 

[Stretch]

Don't forget there is a big distinction between what is ILLEGAL (prohibited in society) and BANNED (prohibited in sport).

There are quite a few instances where LEGAL drugs are BANNED in sports but perfectly ok for everyone else in society.

Absolutely, in which case, I would still maintain that the only athletes who are not cheating are athletes which abide by the rules of their sport.

 

[Millard]

It's not even my opinion, I'm just stating a fact really, it's amazing to me that anyone could ever argue the point. (I know ur not millard) but it's laughable to me. As long as it's cheating to use AAS, the athletes who choose to use are in the wrong.

Steroid use, or PED use, by athletes doesn't bother me. I don't think it should be banned so I am not troubled by the pervasive use of PEDs in sports even when they are banned.

I recently had an enlightening exchange with Jay Coakley, PhD, (Professor Emeritus Sociology Department, University of Colorado at Colorado Springs) who really helped me better understand the "sociological landscape" in which PED use occurs. He is the author of
Sports in Society: Issues and Controversies by Jay Coakley, PhD (10th edition; McGraw-Hill, 2009)

I agree that steroid use by athletes doesn't reflect a defect in their moral character:

Research also suggests that substance use is not caused by defective socialization or a lack of moral character among athletes; in fact, it often occurs among the most dedicated, committed, and hard-working athletes in sports. At this point, it appears that most substance use and abuse is tied to an athlete’s uncritical acceptance of the norms of the sport ethic. Therefore, it is grounded in overconformity—the same type of overconformity that occurs when distance runners continue training with serious stress fractures; when female gymnasts control weight by cutting their food consumption to dangerous levels; and when NFL players take injections of painkilling drugs so they can put their already injured

Sports in Society: Issues and Controversies by Jay Coakley, PhD (10th edition; McGraw-Hill, 2009)

 

[Stretch]

So you don't feel as though, cheating is a character issue Millard?

I don't feel it's wrong because I want to protect the sport, it's the fact that there are competitors who are HONEST, and who WON'T CHEAT.

Even if they were to believe that AAS are okay and should be allowed, there are those who won't use them, just BECAUSE it's not allowed. From what I understand you're saying that it's okay for them to be punished for their honesty..

IMHO--Placing winning ahead of honesty, is a character defect.

 

[musulman]

One and done,

You are some big mma u dont want people to know youre identity cos you are famous right? well, why tell us this, why not just respond undercover and not even mention that you dont want anyone to find out who you are? Why not just answer that in your opinion this is what goes on in MMA, why even mention you are so deep and involved and how well you know the game and how big you are and people may know you. Because you want the status and superiority feeling, cos you are really a nobody in your mind, but you want to create a persona of exaggerated self importance, you are pathetic, weak insecure and fake.

BTW, nothing about cage fighting impresses me. To me its neither here or there, it wont make a difference. To someone like me it is a non event, insignificant. In your mind it is a big thing, in other peoples mind its a "so what". So saying this sort of shit just to get respect of people cos you have said it to get people to go "wow, we have a big mma guy in our midst" and then you talk all superior and it makes you feel good and important. Grow up.

You now want to a cycle of roids. some mma guy that fights in the big league and now wants to start a cycle. Idiot, you are prolly 19 and live with mom.

 

[musulman]

Millard,

Cheating is not just in sports.

Why change who you are? Why change your very essence?

That is cheating not just in sports but cheating life, yourself and your loved ones, but more importantly cheating god. God did not make you like that so why you recreating yourself artificially and in a sense rebelling against god and saying i don't want what you gave me? In a sense not being content and appreciative of what you got and accepting your place in life. A cheater is an unappreciative person, a jealous person, a rebellious person, a person who is never content and happy.

That is the whole issue why its all wrong. Thats why are society is fucked up.

 

[Stretch]

GRRRR---I hate it when stupid mofo's agree w/me!

I'm surrounded by IDIOTS!!!

and again.

 

[musulman]

Who is agreeing with you, who the fuck are you? This is my opinion, maybe you are agreeing with me, i don't need to agree with no one. Religion is the same so the view will be the same, so you saying someone agrees with you shows your pompous attitude.

 

[Stretch]

When you can figure out the complexities of the English language go ahead and get back to me.

For the record....ARE/OUR...are not interchangeable words. And this is just the tip of the iceberg when discussing your problems with communication. If I read between the lines, of your rhetoric, I can see you MAY have a good point SOMEWHERE down there. But I need the Hubble to see it past all YOUR ignorance. You do more harm than good. And I am not speaking about religion. If you like, I will go through your post and point out every little thing that makes your ignorance so glaringly obvious.

However, I meant no disrespect by saying, that YOU agree with ME. If it makes you happier, I hate it when I agree with ignorant people. Does that make you happy?

 

[buddy1]

dear god,
please let me be where musulman is. Please let me spend countless hours bantering with people who are smarter than me and who can't stand me. Please let me live in an efficiency with my sister and mom, reminiscing about the days-of-old, trying to warn against the evils of steroids. Please allow me to continue to stick my dick in unwilling asses. Please allow me to judge everybody else and not understand why i'm not getting through. In jesus' name i pray, amen.

I love it!