To t3 or not to t3

[fitstitch112]

Looking for advice whether I would need to add t3. I am leaning towards yes as my story will tell but I would just be using it to help re-stabilize my normal metabolism.

I am in week 10 of the following

Currently on trt at 200mg ew
Anostrozole 1mg (sun, wed, fri) =3mg total
Hcg 250iu 2x ew
1-8 tren e at 200mg ew
DNP run (below)
9-16 cardarine 10mg ed
9-16 tren e 400mg ed
9-16 caber 1mg ew
(Ran with omega fish oil, multi-vit, vit D3, nac, taurine, erase pro)

My dnp run is on day 9
Day 1-5 200mg ed
Day 6-9 300mg ed
Day 10-15 200-300mg ed
(Ran it with nac, multi-vit, 2000mg vit c, code red, caffeine pills for energy, potassium, taurine, plenty of water, low carb high protein, moderate carbs post workout)

I could stop this dnp run right now and be happy with the results I see. I have definitely dropped a substantial amount of bf and I'd be interested to see what I look like after I let the dnp leave my system over the next 5-7 days and begin to fill back out glycogen stores. But I will be continig my normal low carb high protein diet with the occasional cheat post dnp run.

I know running tren lowers thyroid function and there is back and forth on whether dnp lowers thyroid function. So I am looking for input on whether I should add t3 at 25mcg per day. Again, I would only be looking to help correct any (if any) drop in thyroid function not looking to ramp beyond normal limits.

If you think t3 is needed, should I run it through week 16 or beyond?

Things to consider the length of my tren cycle the dose of my tren cycle..

I have never used t3 in the past and this is my first run with dnp. Though tren test cycles are my happy place...

 

[ChestRockwell]

I know running tren lowers thyroid function

In sheep.

No blood test on myself (or clients) substantiates it does so to any significant degree in humans.

With that said, as to whether or not to use T3 boils down to some rhetorical questions:

- How long will you be prepared to run it (there is a considerable period before it is stable in the system and a period upon cessation before endogenous production is restarted)
- Do you understand that the thyroidal axis controls much more than just metabolic processes?
- Do you have T4 so that you may consider running combined treatment of T4 and T3?
- Do you understand that 25mcgs/day is very likely NOT a "replacement" dose?
- Are you running any beta agonists because the strongest argument for running exogenous thyroid may be its ability to increase sensitivity of beta adrenergic pathways and receptors?

 

[fitstitch112]

In sheep.

No blood test on myself (or clients) substantiates it does so to any significant degree in humans.

Interesting I didn't know that.. seems like this board among many others promote the use of t3 in conjunction with tren. I've always kept it out as I found the results of tren do not seem to show decreased function of metabolism.

With that said, as to whether or not to use T3 boils down to some rhetorical questions:

- How long will you be prepared to run it (there is a considerable period before it is stable in the system and a period upon cessation before endogenous production is restarted)

I would be willing to run it as long as what's needed to ensure endogenous procduction is restarted.

- Do you understand
that the thyroidal axis controls much more than just metabolic processes?

True

- Do you have T4 so that you may consider running combined treatment of T4 and T3?

No, I do not have t4 just t3.

- Do you understand that 25mcgs/day is very likely NOT a "replacement" dose?

Most rx's are written at the 25mcg dose and most boards claim 25mcg is a maintainance dose. Would you say 25mcg is not likely because it is too high or too low?

- Are you running any beta agonists because the strongest argument for running exogenous thyroid may be its ability to increase sensitivity of beta adrenergic pathways and receptors?

Interesting, no I am not, while cardarine is not considered a beta agonist i wonder if it plays a similar role because it allows for easier breathing.

Thanks for the info chestrockwell

 

[ChestRockwell]

You're welcome. My general advice is to abstain from exogenous thyroid unless specifically trying to take advantage of its potential synergy with compounds such as clenbuterol.

Most rx's are written at the 25mcg dose and most boards claim 25mcg is a maintainance dose. Would you say 25mcg is not likely because it is too high or too low?

For most individuals, this will be too low to operate in a true replacement dose.

 

[Johne71]

I have a trt doc that has me on T3 with my testosterone. I really not sure why so I'm going to ask on my next visit. I only realized this when I went to refill my Test and told them I thought I had enough T3 left. They told me they would not fill the Test without the T3.

 

[ChestRockwell]

I have a trt doc that has me on T3 with my testosterone. I really not sure why so I'm going to ask on my next visit. I only realized this when I went to refill my Test and told them I thought I had enough T3 left. They told me they would not fill the Test without the T3.

It is certainly worth asking, particularly if your thyroid panels did not reveal signs of hypothyroidism.

 

[Johne71]

Definitely will. My brother in law uses the same facility and also takes T3 with his Test. I'll find out and report back the reasoning behind it. I only take 12 micrograms 2x day.

 

[ChestRockwell]

Cool, if you don't mind, I'd love to hear the reasoning behind it...quite frankly, I doubt that 25mcgs/day is even acting as a replacement dose. Do you get frequent thyroid panels done while on T3?

 

[Johne71]

This is my first time going here. My follow up is 7 months (which I like).

 

[Johne71]

I just looked back at my blood work. My pre-blood al had thyroid functions within the reference ranges. Bizarre. I sent them a message to question the T3 supplement. I'll probably get a very short answer.

 

[Johne71]

I got my reply: Said its only to stimulate metabolism and not even related to the Test Cyp. Strange the pharmacy has the idea to not fill one without the other.

 

[jessmac]

Are the implications for t3 different for a woman?

 

[ChestRockwell]

I got my reply: Said its only to stimulate metabolism and not even related to the Test Cyp. Strange the pharmacy has the idea to not fill one without the other.

I tend to agree, that is not a very thorough explanation...stimulate metabolism. As I said, there is a good chance it is doing nothing of the sort at 25mcgs/day, unless you are deep into a diet.

Are the implications for t3 different for a woman?

Basic physiological roles are not sex-specific, however females do tend to have the potential to be more "sensitive" to thyroid replacement therapies. Females also tend to have a higher rate of thyroid related diseases as compared to men.

Bauer M, Glenn T, Pilhatsch M, Pfennig A, Whybrow PC. Gender differences in thyroid system function: relevance to bipolar disorder and its treatment. Bipolar Disord. 2014 Feb;16(1):58-71.

Carlé A, Pedersen IB, Knudsen N, Perrild H, Ovesen L, Laurberg P. Gender
differences in symptoms of hypothyroidism: a population-based DanThyr study. Clin
Endocrinol (Oxf). 2015 Nov;83(5):717-25.

 

[jessmac]

Thanku.

 

[Docd187123]

Cool, if you don't mind, I'd love to hear the reasoning behind it...quite frankly, I doubt that 25mcgs/day is even acting as a replacement dose. Do you get frequent thyroid panels done while on T3?

Here's another reference I was able to find.


INTRODUCTION

In the euthyroid state, the thyroid gland produces the entirety of the body's thyroxine (T4) (about 80-90 µg/d), but only 20% of the body's triiodothyronine (T3). In fact, the total integrated daily production of T3 in the body is 32 mcg: 8 mcg secreted directly from the thyroid gland and the rest ( 24 mcg) originating from peripheral deiodination of the outer ring of T4 by type I 5'-deiodinase, mainly in the liver and the kidney1. However, in hyper- and hypo-thyroid states, a higher fraction of total plasma T3 is produced by the thyroid gland2.

 

[Sampei]

@ChestRockwell how would you rin t3 with clenbuterol?

I'm running clen at 120mcg ED and started adding 25mcg t3 for 3 weeks then increased it at 50mcg and now.was thinking.of increasing to 75mcg

I'm on tren/test/mast
I'm worried to burn muscle so i dont want to overshoot with the damn t3.

Since i.upped from 25mcg i lost almost 4kgs in 2 weeks even less BUT i believe is mostly glycogen depletion.because my strenght is.mostly the same and i just look flatter and a.bit leaner so.i dont.think for now i have burned any muscle.

 

[ChestRockwell]

Here's another reference I was able to find.

Great find, appears to have come from the following:

Mortoglou A, Candiloros H. The serum triiodothyronine to thyroxine (T3/T4) ratio in various thyroid disorders and after Levothyroxine replacement therapy. Hormones (Athens). 2004 Apr-Jun;3(2):120-6.

@ChestRockwell how would you rin t3 with clenbuterol?

This will vary by individual so anything discussed here should not be used as an actual template. Some general guidelines should apply, however...

- Combination T4/T3 should be used when possible
- T3 should almost never be run higher than 50mcgs/day unless someone is very experienced and knows exactly what they are doing
- Thyroid should be introduced 2-3 weeks prior to clenbuterol to allow time for it to stabilize levels in the body
- Thyroid/Clenbuterol should never be used in the place of a properly structured diet and lifestyle plan

 

[Sampei]

Ok i have almost set in place except i'm using t3 only at 50mcg without t4.

What do you think.if I add 100mcg t4?

That will result in: 100mcg T4 - 50mcg t3 and 120mcg clen


Why not over 50mcg t3? Muscle loss?

Great find, appears to have come from the following:

Mortoglou A, Candiloros H. The serum triiodothyronine to thyroxine (T3/T4) ratio in various thyroid disorders and after Levothyroxine replacement therapy. Hormones (Athens). 2004 Apr-Jun;3(2):120-6.



This will vary by individual so anything discussed here should not be used as an actual template. Some general guidelines should apply, however...

- Combination T4/T3 should be used when possible
- T3 should almost never be run higher than 50mcgs/day unless someone is very experienced and knows exactly what they are doing
- Thyroid should be introduced 2-3 weeks prior to clenbuterol to allow time for it to stabilize levels in the body
- Thyroid/Clenbuterol should never be used in the place of a properly structured diet and lifestyle plan

 

[Sampei]

Why t3 and t4 together instead of.only t3? There must be a reason.for it. Would you care.to explain, i like to.understand

 

[ChestRockwell]

Why not over 50mcg t3? Muscle loss?

No, there is virtually zero risk of muscle atrophy for someone using supraphysiological doses of AAS. I do not feel that putting oneself into severely hyperthyroid states is necessarily the wisest idea for any length of time, and 50mcgs/day is more than enough to provide an individual with the additive effects upon beta pathways.

Why t3 and t4 together instead of.only t3? There must be a reason.for it. Would you care.to explain, i like to.understand

This is based upon my current belief that the body may have T4-specific dependencies...