To t3 or not to t3

[fitstitch112]

Looking for advice whether I would need to add t3. I am leaning towards yes as my story will tell but I would just be using it to help re-stabilize my normal metabolism.

I am in week 10 of the following

Currently on trt at 200mg ew
Anostrozole 1mg (sun, wed, fri) =3mg total
Hcg 250iu 2x ew
1-8 tren e at 200mg ew
DNP run (below)
9-16 cardarine 10mg ed
9-16 tren e 400mg ed
9-16 caber 1mg ew
(Ran with omega fish oil, multi-vit, vit D3, nac, taurine, erase pro)

My dnp run is on day 9
Day 1-5 200mg ed
Day 6-9 300mg ed
Day 10-15 200-300mg ed
(Ran it with nac, multi-vit, 2000mg vit c, code red, caffeine pills for energy, potassium, taurine, plenty of water, low carb high protein, moderate carbs post workout)

I could stop this dnp run right now and be happy with the results I see. I have definitely dropped a substantial amount of bf and I'd be interested to see what I look like after I let the dnp leave my system over the next 5-7 days and begin to fill back out glycogen stores. But I will be continig my normal low carb high protein diet with the occasional cheat post dnp run.

I know running tren lowers thyroid function and there is back and forth on whether dnp lowers thyroid function. So I am looking for input on whether I should add t3 at 25mcg per day. Again, I would only be looking to help correct any (if any) drop in thyroid function not looking to ramp beyond normal limits.

If you think t3 is needed, should I run it through week 16 or beyond?

Things to consider the length of my tren cycle the dose of my tren cycle..

I have never used t3 in the past and this is my first run with dnp. Though tren test cycles are my happy place...

 

[Docd187123]

Bolded for emphasis. The research team found that dosing less than 3x per day could cause hormonal fluctuations leading to supraphysiological levels followed by troughs of low T3.

"In this study we chose to substitute l-T3 for l-T4 on a three times daily administration regimen to maintain reasonably steady levels of T3 throughout the day, avoiding the potential risk of supratherapeutic levels of T3. Our findings demonstrate that a steady-state pharmacodynamic equivalence can be achieved by substituting l-T3 for l-T4 using a thrice daily regimen at an approximate ratio of 1:3."

I read the entire study but didn't see where they pointed out they found dosing T3 less than 3x per day caused anything bc they didn't run any tests besides 3x daily dosing. Everything they did involved this one specific dosing protocol. They went out of their way to make sure T3 levels never hit supraphysiological levels but at the same time for steady state T3 levels to have a pharmacodynamic equivalence to the T4 dosing. This poses a few issues bc we are not concerned with pharmacodynamic equivalence when using exogenous thyroid hormone for weight loss AND we are purposely attempting to achieve supraphysiological levels to aid in fat loss. I have seen several sources recommend twice daily dosing as you suggest here but both Pfizer and Monarch Pharmaceuticals recommend once daily dosing. What further compounds the issue is that while T3 has a terminal half life of around 1 day, the maximum pharmacologic response is seen between 2-3daysor when plasma levels from a single dose reach roughly 12.5-25% of peak.

 

[ChestRockwell]

Doing a little research and I found another reference for you Chest about endogenous t3 production.

Great stuff, adding to the repository.

And, we are not in disagreement, mind you. It all comes down to how conservative one wants to be. Anecdotally, I've had more than a handful of folks report improved subjective markers by doing nothing more than switching from a once-twice daily T3 dosing regimen.

Personally, I never noticed a huge difference myself but am still doing an AM/PM dosing for peace of mind. I think some folks will be a lot more sensitive than others, which is why my recommendations are on the conservative end of the spectrum.

 

[Sampei]

Chest on 75mcg of t3 are the catabolic chanches greatly increased? During aas cycle of courze

 

[ChestRockwell]

Chest on 75mcg of t3 are the catabolic chanches greatly increased? During aas cycle of courze

As I previously mentioned, I do not recommend going over 50mcgs/day of T3, independent of whether or not atrophy risks are greater. I do not feel the risk/reward ratio is worth it...

 

[Sampei]

As I previously mentioned, I do not recommend going over 50mcgs/day of T3, independent of whether or not atrophy risks are greater. I do not feel the risk/reward ratio is worth it...

I'll stick to 50 plus t4

 

[Docd187123]

Great stuff, adding to the repository.

And, we are not in disagreement, mind you. It all comes down to how conservative one wants to be. Anecdotally, I've had more than a handful of folks report improved subjective markers by doing nothing more than switching from a once-twice daily T3 dosing regimen.

Personally, I never noticed a huge difference myself but am still doing an AM/PM dosing for peace of mind. I think some folks will be a lot more sensitive than others, which is why my recommendations are on the conservative end of the spectrum.

Exactly! Just like I said I didn't necessarily disagree with your recommendation. I've tried a single daily dose and a split dose and in my n=1 I couldn't perceive a difference. Some people might just respond better with the twice daily protocol and as you mention, there is no harm in doing so.

 

[OldCruiser]

Can I just take everything before bed? How long after thyroid ingestion can I eat?
That's the problem mainly for me, because usually I wake up and take 50mcg of t3 and 30 mins later drink a zero fat milk + whey shake.

It would be better for me to just take it before going to bed cuz I don't have any pre bed food usually, so I'm sure i'll be empty stomach and will be fasted the whole night, could that be a good alternative?

Why split the t3, isn't the halflife 1 day?

@ChestRockwell
I was looking in my cabinet and I have only 150mcg T4 atm, don't wanna throw them and buy 100mcg t4 instead, would that be ok doing 150 t4 and 50 t3? or you discourage it?

I was actually reading this because I just found out that it's recommended now by some to take the t3 before bed only. Apparently the natural t3 peak levels are at midnight-3am. I started doing this and I'm sleeping better than I have in decades, and waking up rested. I never feel rested. I've been taking the t3 in the morning. Apparently like a dumb ass. A study I read said taking it in the morning makes you tired all day and it doesn't even work well. That's what was happening to me.

Doh.



Daily Rhythms of Thyroid Hormones + TSH - Thyroid UK | HealthUnlocked