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Anabolic Steroids

To t3 or not to t3

fitstitch112

fitstitch112

New Member
Looking for advice whether I would need to add t3. I am leaning towards yes as my story will tell but I would just be using it to help re-stabilize my normal metabolism.

I am in week 10 of the following

Currently on trt at 200mg ew
Anostrozole 1mg (sun, wed, fri) =3mg total
Hcg 250iu 2x ew
1-8 tren e at 200mg ew
DNP run (below)
9-16 cardarine 10mg ed
9-16 tren e 400mg ed
9-16 caber 1mg ew
(Ran with omega fish oil, multi-vit, vit D3, nac, taurine, erase pro)

My dnp run is on day 9
Day 1-5 200mg ed
Day 6-9 300mg ed
Day 10-15 200-300mg ed
(Ran it with nac, multi-vit, 2000mg vit c, code red, caffeine pills for energy, potassium, taurine, plenty of water, low carb high protein, moderate carbs post workout)

I could stop this dnp run right now and be happy with the results I see. I have definitely dropped a substantial amount of bf and I'd be interested to see what I look like after I let the dnp leave my system over the next 5-7 days and begin to fill back out glycogen stores. But I will be continig my normal low carb high protein diet with the occasional cheat post dnp run.

I know running tren lowers thyroid function and there is back and forth on whether dnp lowers thyroid function. So I am looking for input on whether I should add t3 at 25mcg per day. Again, I would only be looking to help correct any (if any) drop in thyroid function not looking to ramp beyond normal limits.

If you think t3 is needed, should I run it through week 16 or beyond?

Things to consider the length of my tren cycle the dose of my tren cycle..

I have never used t3 in the past and this is my first run with dnp. Though tren test cycles are my happy place...
 
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Thank you for taking the time.to.answer.

How much t4 would you suggest hypoteyically?

ChestRockwell said:
No, there is virtually zero risk of muscle atrophy for someone using supraphysiological doses of AAS. I do not feel that putting oneself into severely hyperthyroid states is necessarily the wisest idea for any length of time, and 50mcgs/day is more than enough to provide an individual with the additive effects upon beta pathways.



This is based upon my current belief that the body may have T4-specific dependencies...
Click to expand...
 
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Just a thought. My doctor that provides my HRT has me come off for 4-6 weeks a couple of times a year because he has seen a diminishing thyroid function in many of his patients on HRT. If this is the reason the doctor has you on t3 I like my doctor's solution better. It does seem to work for me. After the break my thyroid function is perfect again.
 
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Thaistick said:
Just a thought. My doctor that provides my HRT has me come off for 4-6 weeks a couple of times a year because he has seen a diminishing thyroid function in many of his patients on HRT. If this is the reason the doctor has you on t3 I like my doctor's solution better. It does seem to work for me. After the break my thyroid function is perfect again.
Click to expand...

This contradicts the body of evidence on endogenous thyroid restoration following therapy dating back all the way to the 1950s?
 
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ChestRockwell said:
You bet, that combined stack works very nicely. Just be sure to split your T3 into an AM/PM dosing schedule and try not to have any food and/or caffeine around thyroid ingestion...
Click to expand...
Can I just take everything before bed? How long after thyroid ingestion can I eat?
That's the problem mainly for me, because usually I wake up and take 50mcg of t3 and 30 mins later drink a zero fat milk + whey shake.

It would be better for me to just take it before going to bed cuz I don't have any pre bed food usually, so I'm sure i'll be empty stomach and will be fasted the whole night, could that be a good alternative?

Why split the t3, isn't the halflife 1 day?

@ChestRockwell
I was looking in my cabinet and I have only 150mcg T4 atm, don't wanna throw them and buy 100mcg t4 instead, would that be ok doing 150 t4 and 50 t3? or you discourage it?
 
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I was looking if pre bed t4/T3 could be a good alternative, don't know if this study can be applied to us taking supradoses of thyroids...

CONCLUSIONS:

l-thyroxine taken at bedtime by patients with primary hypothyroidism is associated with higher thyroid hormone concentrations and lower TSH concentrations compared to the same l-thyroxine dose taken in the morning. At the same time, the circadian TSH rhythm stays intact. Our findings are best explained by a better gastrointestinal uptake of l-thyroxine during the night.

HealthUnlocked | The social network for health
 
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Sampei said:
Can I just take everything before bed? How long after thyroid ingestion can I eat?
That's the problem mainly for me, because usually I wake up and take 50mcg of t3 and 30 mins later drink a zero fat milk + whey shake.

It would be better for me to just take it before going to bed cuz I don't have any pre bed food usually, so I'm sure i'll be empty stomach and will be fasted the whole night, could that be a good alternative?

Why split the t3, isn't the halflife 1 day?

@ChestRockwell
I was looking in my cabinet and I have only 150mcg T4 atm, don't wanna throw them and buy 100mcg t4 instead, would that be ok doing 150 t4 and 50 t3? or you discourage it?
Click to expand...

He said a 2:1 to 3:1 ratio is what he suggests so 150mcg T4 and 50mcg T3 is within those suggestions.

T3's half life is much shorter than T4's
 
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T4 is few days and t3 is 24hrs for what i have read.online. am I wrong?
Reading the pamplet inside my pharma grade t3 box it says: reccomended all at once.

That's why i wanted to understand the reason.between.splitting and if.i.could take it before bed instead of after waking up in the morning

Docd187123 said:
He said a 2:1 to 3:1 ratio is what he suggests so 150mcg T4 and 50mcg T3 is within those suggestions.

T3's half life is much shorter than T4's
Click to expand...
 
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Sampei said:
Can I just take everything before bed? How long after thyroid ingestion can I eat?
Click to expand...

Could you? Yes...will it potentially lead to fluctuations in hormone levels throughout the day? Yes.

As far as how long to eat, there is evidence that food and/or caffeine can significantly impact absorption, even if taken an hour after thyroid meds:

Benvenga S, Bartolone L, Pappalardo MA, Russo A, Lapa D, Giorgianni G, Saraceno G, Trimarchi F. Altered intestinal absorption of L-thyroxine caused by coffee. Thyroid. 2008 Mar;18(3):293-301.

Sampei said:
T4 is few days and t3 is 24hrs for what i have read.online. am I wrong?
Click to expand...

To keep T3 levels stable, it can require a 3x per day dosing schedule, however this is unreasonable for most which is why I simply recommend AM/PM

Celi FS, Zemskova M, Linderman JD, et al. The pharmacodynamic equivalence of levothyroxine and liothyronine. A randomized, double blind, cross-over study in thyroidectomized patients. Clinical endocrinology. 2010;72(5):709-715. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03700.x.

"In this study we chose to substitute l-T3 for l-T4 on a three times daily administration regimen to maintain reasonably steady levels of T3 throughout the day, avoiding the potential risk of supratherapeutic levels of T3. Our findings demonstrate that a steady-state pharmacodynamic equivalence can be achieved by substituting l-T3 for l-T4 using a thrice daily regimen at an approximate ratio of 1:3."
 
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So.what if i take t3 25mcg after i wake up and then t3 25mcg and 150mcg t4 before.bed. could that be a good.compromise?

ChestRockwell said:
Could you? Yes...will it potentially lead to fluctuations in hormone levels throughout the day? Yes.

As far as how long to eat, there is evidence that food and/or caffeine can significantly impact absorption, even if taken an hour after thyroid meds:

Benvenga S, Bartolone L, Pappalardo MA, Russo A, Lapa D, Giorgianni G, Saraceno G, Trimarchi F. Altered intestinal absorption of L-thyroxine caused by coffee. Thyroid. 2008 Mar;18(3):293-301.



To keep T3 levels stable, it can require a 3x per day dosing schedule, however this is unreasonable for most which is why I simply recommend AM/PM

Celi FS, Zemskova M, Linderman JD, et al. The pharmacodynamic equivalence of levothyroxine and liothyronine. A randomized, double blind, cross-over study in thyroidectomized patients. Clinical endocrinology. 2010;72(5):709-715. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03700.x.

"In this study we chose to substitute l-T3 for l-T4 on a three times daily administration regimen to maintain reasonably steady levels of T3 throughout the day, avoiding the potential risk of supratherapeutic levels of T3. Our findings demonstrate that a steady-state pharmacodynamic equivalence can be achieved by substituting l-T3 for l-T4 using a thrice daily regimen at an approximate ratio of 1:3."
Click to expand...
 
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ChestRockwell said:
Could you? Yes...will it potentially lead to fluctuations in hormone levels throughout the day? Yes.

As far as how long to eat, there is evidence that food and/or caffeine can significantly impact absorption, even if taken an hour after thyroid meds:

Benvenga S, Bartolone L, Pappalardo MA, Russo A, Lapa D, Giorgianni G, Saraceno G, Trimarchi F. Altered intestinal absorption of L-thyroxine caused by coffee. Thyroid. 2008 Mar;18(3):293-301.



To keep T3 levels stable, it can require a 3x per day dosing schedule, however this is unreasonable for most which is why I simply recommend AM/PM

Celi FS, Zemskova M, Linderman JD, et al. The pharmacodynamic equivalence of levothyroxine and liothyronine. A randomized, double blind, cross-over study in thyroidectomized patients. Clinical endocrinology. 2010;72(5):709-715. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03700.x.

"In this study we chose to substitute l-T3 for l-T4 on a three times daily administration regimen to maintain reasonably steady levels of T3 throughout the day, avoiding the potential risk of supratherapeutic levels of T3. Our findings demonstrate that a steady-state pharmacodynamic equivalence can be achieved by substituting l-T3 for l-T4 using a thrice daily regimen at an approximate ratio of 1:3."
Click to expand...

Not that I disagree with yor recommendation but I just want to point out that the excerpt of the study doesn't say you need to dose three times daily to maintain steady state levels. It says they did so to achieve a pharmacodynamic equivalence to T4, which has a much longer half life, WHILE avoiding supraphysiological thyroid hormone levels. Sampei is aiming for supra physiological levels and he's not really going for a pharmacodynamic equivalence of T3 and T4
 
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Docd187123 said:
Not that I disagree with yor recommendation but I just want to point out that the excerpt of the study doesn't say you need to dose three times daily to maintain steady state levels. It says they did so to achieve a pharmacodynamic equivalence to T4, which has a much longer half life, WHILE avoiding supraphysiological thyroid hormone levels. Sampei is aiming for supra physiological levels and he's not really going for a pharmacodynamic equivalence of T3 and T4
Click to expand...

Bolded for emphasis. The research team found that dosing less than 3x per day could cause hormonal fluctuations leading to supraphysiological levels followed by troughs of low T3.

"In this study we chose to substitute l-T3 for l-T4 on a three times daily administration regimen to maintain reasonably steady levels of T3 throughout the day, avoiding the potential risk of supratherapeutic levels of T3. Our findings demonstrate that a steady-state pharmacodynamic equivalence can be achieved by substituting l-T3 for l-T4 using a thrice daily regimen at an approximate ratio of 1:3."
 
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