Tren ai ae ideas

[canadianiron]

Which studies? The ones linking vitamins to decreased prolactin?

Or the ones linking tren to increased prolactin, and prolactin to gyno? You know, the non existent ones. . .

Obviously some steroids will elevate prolactin but nowhere near a problematic level. Estrogen raises prolactin as well and is the main concern and cause since estrogen can cause gyno and sexual dysfunction at levels easily attained in an aromatizing steroid cycle.

But you are right. There is no evidence that 19nor AAS raise Prolactin levels to within a problematic range.

 

[Wunderpus]

Obviously some steroids will elevate prolactin but nowhere near a problematic level. Estrogen raises prolactin as well and is the main concern and cause since estrogen can cause gyno and sexual dysfunction at levels easily attained in an aromatizing steroid cycle.

But you are right. There is no evidence that 19nor AAS raise Prolactin levels to within a problematic range.

Therein lies the concern... Why is he experiencing pre-gyno symptoms on a TRT dose of test...?

 

[Wil.mega]

Gram a week on test only, again, no gyno sides, no itch, no nothing. Tren or deca? Itch right away, no its not psychosomatic, it actually itches bro haha. And no, there's no test in the tren, my own little basement lab, good powders, checked out, girls a biochem major, no I'm not giving them up. And yes I have an idea of what's goin on, just looking for ideas on estro control

 

[Wunderpus]

Gram a week on test only, again, no gyno sides, no itch, no nothing. Tren or deca? Itch right away, no its not psychosomatic, it actually itches bro haha. And no, there's no test in the tren, my own little basement lab, good powders, checked out, girls a biochem major, no I'm not giving them up. And yes I have an idea of what's goin on, just looking for ideas on estro control

Tren doesn't convert to estrogen... So, uh, what am I missing?

You've mass. spec'd the powders? LOL.

 

[Wil.mega]

Therein lies the concern... Why is he experiencing pre-gyno symptoms on a TRT dose of test...?

That's my question. Just switched from deca to tren a month ago, thinking the deca still acting up is causing some yoyoing of hormones, hate deca, every time I swear is the last. Npp? No problems

 

[Wunderpus]

That's my question. Just switched from deca to tren a month ago, thinking the deca still acting up is causing some yoyoing of hormones, hate deca, every time I swear is the last. Npp? No problems

Again, that makes little sense. That's like saying "Test prop causes gyno, but test enan. doesn't"

Deca and NPP are both nandrolone, with different esters. Deca was just an old Pharma name...

 

[Wil.mega]

You've mass. spec'd the powders? LOL.[/QUOTE]

"I" haven't mass specd chit, but they've been tested, 86%. Which, I mean, its China, I'll take it

 

[Wil.mega]

Again, that makes little sense. That's like saying "Test prop causes gyno, but test enan. doesn't"

Deca and NPP are both nandrolone, with different esters. Deca was just an old Pharma name...

Thus the thread bro, if it made perfect sense, I wouldn't have questions about it?

 

[Wunderpus]

Thus the thread bro, if it made perfect sense, I wouldn't have questions about it?

That's what I'm saying, something is wrong.

I think at the end of the day, nolvadex is your best bet.

 

[jackthegripper2]

100mg a day tren ace
250mg sust a week
GH, t4, skin

Nips are burning. Nolva always took care of that for me in past cycles, but I've read no nolva with tren, anyone got med studies to back that up? Ais make the dil soft, asin and adex, tried many different times, different brands, low doses, always soft the next day. Hate the itchy nips, but I'm not really willing to drop the tren, soooooo, any thoughts??

Got any bloodwork?

 

[Dr JIM]

do you have caber on hand running that much tren?

Supplement vitamin b6 and vitamin e as well. Both reduce prolactin levels.

Bro science BS! Prolactin does NOT cause GCM in the absence of elevated E-2 levels.

But what's even more important is TREN does NOT cause a rise of either Prolactin or E-2

 

[pittbox]

100mg a day tren ace
250mg sust a week
GH, t4, skin

Nips are burning. Nolva always took care of that for me in past cycles, but I've read no nolva with tren, anyone got med studies to back that up? Ais make the dil soft, asin and adex, tried many different times, different brands, low doses, always soft the next day. Hate the itchy nips, but I'm not really willing to drop the tren, soooooo, any thoughts??

Cut your test dose in half and take 40mg pharm grade nolva or stop the cycle.
I'm pricing gyno surgery now and trust me you don't want to go through this shit.
It's not the tren it's the test.

 

[Dr JIM]

Feel free to read and educate yourself.

Your the one who should be reading and listening to those who are MUCH more knowledgable than yourself.

Just bc you started cycling in your teen years doesn't mean you somehow qualify as being "experienced".

Truth be told it's obvious a considerable portion of what you "learned" and cite as advice is more of the same old bro science garbage that has long since been discounted as anything but evidence based.

 

[Dr JIM]

Obviously some steroids will elevate prolactin but nowhere near a problematic level. Estrogen raises prolactin as well and is the main concern and cause since estrogen can cause gyno and sexual dysfunction at levels easily attained in an aromatizing steroid cycle.

But you are right. There is no evidence that 19nor AAS raise Prolactin levels to within a problematic range.

If that's so OBVIOUS, then the evidence should be easy to come by, so let's see it!

Another classic bro science extrapolation based on NOTHING but conjecture.

What conjecture is that? Well Dr Jim since certain AAS elevate E-2 then by golly SOME must also raise Prolactin right, WRONG!

Why is this form of bro-science illogical? Bc it completely ignores the required MOA in both instances.

AAS may raise E-2 thru TT aromatization or via hepatic enzymatic activity.

But there is NO MECHANISM by which AAS can increase the production of prolactin a hormone produced exclusively by the pituitary gland.

But, but, but certain AAS stimulate the progesterone receptors in MUSCLE, and so now muscle cells morph into endocrine glands and secret PROGESTERONE ,,,,,, which then stimulates the pituitary gland to raise PL levels, WRONG AGAIN!

Yep that summation is the basis for the illogical bro science garbage, YOU learned, much of it relying upon those hormonal alterations specific to PREGNANCY

 

[Wunderpus]

Cut your test dose in half and take 40mg pharm grade nolva or stop the cycle.
I'm pricing gyno surgery now and trust me you don't want to go through this shit.
It's not the tren it's the test.

Pitt, hope you're doing well. I know you had the unfortunate gyno incident a while back... How is pricing looking for the surgery right now? I'm curious as I am considering getting the glands removed.

Thanks!

 

[canadianiron]

Your the one who should be reading and listening to those who are MUCH more knowledgable than yourself.

Just bc you started cycling in your teen years doesn't mean you somehow qualify as being "experienced".

Truth be told it's obvious a considerable portion of what you "learned" and cite as advice is more of the same old bro science garbage that has long since been discounted as anything but evidence based.

Please take a lorazepam before posting.

I personally like your completely untrue assumption, that I have cycled in my teen years. This is something I am completely unaware of and did not know until you Dr. Jim. I guess I might doing something right, if your making foolish assumptions like that.

 

[Docd187123]

Vitamin B6:

• One human study showed a single 300mg dosage of B6 exerts ‘a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect’ which causes a ‘significant decrease of plasma prolactin’(1);
• Another found that 300mg of B6 taken twice a day by 10 normal women lowered prolactin levels and slightly but significantly raised growth hormone levels. The authors concluded: ‘The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to be mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level’(2);
• Another study found B6 to significantly reduce ‘opioids-induced hyperprolactinemia’(3);
• This study on men found that ‘Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise’(4);
• And a study on male rats found that, ‘Pyridoxine hydrochloride significantly suppressed the chlorpromazine-induced prolactin rise (p less than 0.01). However, the suppression was significantly less than that produced by bromocriptine (p less than 0.01)’(5).
  
  
• Effects of pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6) on chlorpromazine-induced serum prolactin rise in male rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Ways around these side effects:

One way to avoid the ‘finger tingling’ that high dose B6 can cause is to take the activated form of B6 called Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (P5P) – the activated form of B6 does not cause these nerve issues.

In fact, the reason that high dose B6 causes nerve problems is that the body can’t always process very high B6 doses properly and this creates a deficiency of the active form of B6, P5P.

Recommended dosage:

To lower prolactin levels I would recommend you take 50 to 200mg of P5P a day, in divided doses. If you want to take regular B6, which as I’ve mentioned can sometimes cause minor side effects, take 300 to 1000 mg per day in divided doses.

Read the label before you buy B6 because the Pyridoxine Hydrochloride type of B6 (in most supplements) has been shown to be a prolactin inhibitor but Pyridoxal hydrochloride has been shown to be ineffective at lowering prolactin (6)

Vitamin E
Like B6, vitamin E is a powerful natural prolactin inhibitor that is dirt cheap and rarely causes side effects.

Vitamin E has been less thoroughly studied than B6 in relation to lowering prolactin, but it has proved successful with bodybuilders on steroids trying to keep their prolactin levels from rising.

One study in 1992 looked at ‘The effect of vitamin E therapy on sexual functions of uremic patients in hemodialysis’:

‘Twenty-four uremic patients on hemodialysis who had never been treated with vitamin E or related drugs and 12 control patients with normal renal function were studied. Hemodialysis patients were randomly divided into two groups; 12 were treated with oral vitamin E (300 mg/day) for eight weeks and 12 uremic patients and 12 controls were given placebo.

Serum vitamin E, prolactin, FSH, LH, and free testosterone levels were measured in all patients before and after treatment. After the vitamin E treatment serum prolactin levels were significantly decreased (50.8 vs 15.4 ng/ml, p < 0.01). Vitamin E levels were significantly increased (1.11 vs 1.22 mg/dl, p < 0.05). Serum FSH, LH and free testosterone were not affected. In the other two groups there were no significant changes.’

The authors concluded:

‘These results show that vitamin E treatment lowers prolactin levels in uremic hemodialysis patients. This might be due to inhibition of central prolactin secretion. Vitamin E inhibits pituitary gland hypertrophy in vitamin E-deficient rats’(7).

Another study on one patient reinforces vitamin e as being an effective prolactin inhibitor:

‘Vitamin E is one of the most important lipid-soluble antioxidant nutrient. Severe vitamin E deficiency (VED) can have a profound effect on the central nervous system. VED causes ataxia and peripheral neuropathy that resembles Friedreich’s ataxia. We report here a patient presenting this syndrome, but also a prolactin and FSH adenoma. Both the neurological syndromes and the adenoma regressed after treatment with alpha-tocopherol. Although, the presence of the prolactinoma in this patient may not be related to his vitamin E deficiency, alpha-tocopherol treatment seems to be beneficial and might usefully be tested in patients with hypophyseal secreting other forms of adenoma.’(8)

Vitamin E has long been known as one of the most important vitamins for male fertility, and it seems likely that one of the mechanisms by which vitamin e improves fertility is by lowering prolactin levels.

It is also suggested by researchers that vitamin e protects against free-radical damage to the unsaturated fatty acids in the sperm membrane, improving sperm motility and fertility.

This is not from any school or textbook. It's simply copied broscience from another forum.

If you look at those studies in your post you will see that only patients deficient in vitamin B6 and E were able to lower prolactin levels that's bc it's theorized a deficiency in either of these can lead to to increased prolactin. There's nothing suggesting OP is deficient in either.

Furthermore, most of the studies show only statistical significance and online broscience readers automatically assume his also means clinical significance. It does not. One study in your post showed any sort of actual values of reduction I believe.

Finally, most of what you posted was performed on rats not humans.

 

[Dr JIM]

Please take a lorazepam before posting.

I personally like your completely untrue assumption, that I have cycled in my teen years. This is something I am completely unaware of and did not know until you Dr. Jim. I guess I might doing something right, if your making foolish assumptions like that.

You clearly cycled "to early" and even YOU admitted that in another post boy of bros.

And even if you didn't cycle in your teen years would that's really matter bc you're still thinking like one.

Are you going to post that which was "OBVIOUS", not!

 

[Dr JIM]

Finally, most of what you posted was performed on rats not humans.

Apparently some younger PED users feel like RATS bc of the amount of UNECESSARY experimentation they have done on themselves.

This kido is a classic example!

 

[Docd187123]

Apparently some younger PED users feel like RATS bc of the amount of UNECESSARY experimentation they have done on themselves.

This kido is a classic example!

I'm wondering how exactly the studies referenced in his article are applicable to us. Rat studies, studies done on hemodialysis patients, and studies on those with SEVERE vitamin E deficiencies..... Where's the ones on healthy HUMANS?? If it's so obvious that some steroids can raise prolactin then it shouldn't be an issue finding studies that show this IN HUMANS.

Then he states no evidence 19-nors raise prolactin yet he's recommending caber???? Makes no sense to me