Understanding DNP practice

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Hey everyone. One of my students (Niroshan) and I are trying to understand the practice of DNP in bodybuilding. Can you please help by correcting or adding to the below? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Sorry it is so long but we want to understand properly. Feel free to only answer part.


1. What substances should you and shouldn’t you use with DNP?

(a) What shouldn’t you use with DNP? We’ve heard alcohol, illicit drugs like ecstasy, any others? Certain AASs?

(b) What should you or do you use with DNP? Certain AASs? pre-workouts? other fat loss supplements?

2. How do you practice DNP?

From my understanding you should:

(a) probably start with a low dose first (i.e. 200mg) and slowly increase after a minimum of 4 days if you need more, up to a maximum dose around 600-800mg.

(b) not be on DNP for more than 10 days.

(c) eat mostly fat and protein, avoiding carbohydrates where possible, to avoid excessive heat.

(d) avoid using DNP before sleep so that you don’t get night sweats.

(e) use air-conditioning and cold showers to stay cool.

Is this correct? How does this align with your practices? Is there anything I missed that you might do to reduce risk?


3. What is your understanding of DNP in terms of:

(a) how it works in the body?

(b) risks and side effects?

 

[Trenbologna]

This was an email my brother sent me a few years back.
This was the article-

After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

His email-
"The most surprising aspect of it, if indeed it turns out to be true, is how the metabolism never recovered (or takes so long that it hadn't by the time they tested). The thing is, I have my thyroid tested all the time, and it always comes back "normal." I guess it's another case of "normal" not meaning shit because of the huge fucking range where they lump 80 lb grandmothers in with 300 lb college linebackers and call anything in between "normal." Either that, or it's not traditional thyroid hormone-regulated metabolism they're talking about, but I don't know enough about it to know for sure.

The fact, however, is that I continue to feel I eat much less than most people who maintain their weight, and honestly, the diet I need to go on to lose fat is equivalent to what a fucking high school girl getting ready for the prom goes on. It's fucking crazy. Right now, I'm eating three boiled eggs for breakfast--if I eat breakfast at all--with coffee that has some half & half in it. Probably 10 to 12oz of meat with another 12 to 16oz of vegetables for lunch, and often I'm eating like 75% of it and having the rest later as a snack. If not, I'll have a 200 calorie, low-carb protein bar as a snack. Then for dinner, I'm literally having 8oz of cottage cheese with some nuts thrown in or some fruit. Really, maybe 15 to 20 nuts at most. Also, I have an afternoon coffee with half & half. If I train, on that day I'll have a preworkout shake that, by the standards of every fucking bodybuilding site I see, is pitifully small: like 30g protein and 25g carb for 220 measly calories. Then I'll have a protein shake when I get home: another 200 calories at most. The pre- and post-workout stuff probably barely covers the calories burned during the workout. All that, and I'm lucky if I lost one pound of fat per week. Granted, I go off my diet on the weekends, but almost never to the point of binging. In fact, I usually have a decent diet breakfast and sometimes even a diet lunch.

I just finished reading an article comparing two hypothetical bodybuilders, one of whom had a metabolic rate of 3800 calories per day and the other 4500. 4500 fucking calories? I eat less than that over two days. Perhaps the problem is only going to the gym twice per week with one day of basketball at most. My physical activity just doesn't justify eating normally. Of course, that doesn't explain how others can eat chips and sandwiches with full sugar soda for lunch and not get fat, all while not even training at all, but I guess getting fat in the first place just sentences you to an entire lifetime of never being able to eat like a normal person ever again."

Another article-

Opinion | Why You Can’t Lose Weight on a Diet


Here's a study to that effect:

Long-term persistence of adaptive thermogenesis in subjects who have maintained a reduced body weight. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Trenbologna]

Some people are truly at the end of their rope and resort to DNP. The advice they receive is often incorrect. "Eat less" , "show more discipline" , "improve diet" may all very well be sound advice for a "regular" person trying to lose 10lbs or 20lbs over the holidays , but for someone who has been overweight and struggling with their weight since they were very young, it appears to be a different animal entirely.

 

[Trenbologna]

For the record I'm not advocating the use of DNP.
In fact I take all these other pills so that I dont have to try DNP.
Anyone who takes it should understand that if they happen to be in the tiny percentage of "hyper-sensitive" people then they could very well die after taking just one 200mg pill.

And that of they dont understand how the half life
of something works they could also easily die.

I would be willing to take the risk personally but that's just me. To take the DNP at say 210bs and try to lose another 20lbs on DNP.

But I cant even get to 210lbs so first things first lol.

 

[Trenbologna]

Interesting to note that one contestant did indeed keep the weight off. Also Angus Barbieri did it and I have one childhood friend who lost like 75lbs and has kept it off for over 10 years and doesnt suffer cravings.
So some people can and do succeed.
It's just a very small number.
Perhaps the secret to changing the set point lies within this tiny percentage of outliers?

 

[Sworder]

So some people can and do succeed.
It's just a very small number.
Perhaps the secret to changing the set point lies within this tiny percentage of outliers?

Mental health is the cause of your obesity.

 

[Trenbologna]

So are you of the opinion that all overweight people who fail at dieting have mental health issues?
Some people do believe that.(I do not)
I can assure you my brother has no mental health issues. He happens to be a literal genius as well.

I have a hard time believing that every single contestant on the biggest loser was mentally ill.

Also I'm not sure I understand how that quote you used relates to your comment.

 

[Trenbologna]

You should read the article. It's not long at all.
In my opinion it is quite compelling. But if you don't bother to read it then I can't see how you can relate to what I'm saying with regards to the set point theory.

 

[Sworder]

So are you of the opinion that all overweight people who fail at dieting have mental health issues?
Some people do believe that.(I do not)
I can assure you my brother has no mental health issues. He happens to be a literal genius as well.

Your brother? When I say mental health issues, I mean excessive stress or call it depression. Obesity has been one of the tell-tale signs for decades.

I can bet 100% that you and your brother didn't grow up in a house with two caring parents. They split up, and that's a common way to resort to how to deal with it. It's usually the younger brother that does that. It can resort to drugs too, a lot of people that eat are doing that as their drug literally and if you remove that then they would be junkies. People don't know how to deal with their emotions because their parents didn't, and their parents didn't teach their parents either! The cycle goes on, pun intended!

 

[Trenbologna]

Yep no dad in the picture for either of us. That's a root cause of a lot of my issues, I feel.

It is still interesting to me.
There is still the issue of cause and correlation. I mean I don't doubt that there is a much higher percentage of people who are overweight coming out of broken homes. The same with addicts. But surely not all overweight people come from broken homes. Surely broken homes is not the reason for 100% of obese people.
Also I know of many overweight friends who have a solid family structure with two parents.
But I'm not in their homes perhaps there is more going on behind closed doors.
But I see what you are saying that depression
(regardless of the cause), is most often behind obesity.

The only thing is, if I was addicted to food and using it as a replacement for drugs or alcohol I would think I would keep on eating and growing and be gigantic at this point. Yet I seem to settle around the 250lb mark almost every time. Which is why the set point theory struck a cord with me. My body seems to always be fighting to stay at 250lbs. When I overeat beyond that I instinctively (and easily) eat less and drop back down to 250lbs.
Also if it was the depression then, again, why don't I keep eating beyond what I do now?
I mean my depression doesnt go away once I hit 250lbs, it's always with me.

Well, I do appreciate your input and for taking the time to respond.
I will just have to keep on trying and also work on my depression ( the depression is strong with this one). My depression is not responsive to meds although Wellbutrin did help tremendously with my cravings for whatever reason.
Rick and Morty helps more then any medication.

I appreciate your candor Sworder.
I followed some of your postings.
I agree with your thoughts on HGH and T3/T4 completely. Always have.

Hey can I ask what your thoughts are on insulin?
I know most in the BB community have always swore by it but my research always left me thinking it was quite possibly useless.

 

[Sworder]

Yet I seem to settle around the 250lb mark almost every time. Which is why the set point theory struck a cord with me. My body seems to always be fighting to stay at 250lbs. When I overeat beyond that I instinctively (and easily) eat less and drop back down to 250lbs.
Also if it was the depression then, again, why don't I keep eating beyond what I do now?

You eat yourself to the point where you feel you "deserve."

I mean my depression doesnt go away once I hit 250lbs, it's always with me.

Once you improve your mental self image then you can change the outer. That's how all the other "fat" guys lost all the weight. It's all mental man! Stop beating yourself up and thinking you are bad.

Hey can I ask what your thoughts are on insulin?
I know most in the BB community have always swore by it but my research always left me thinking it was quite possibly useless.

Insulin is bad, no point in doing insulin unless you are wanting to become a pro BB. AAS will get you there otherwise I don't agree with insulin use as it is typically by people that have some compulsion to do 10+ drugs/cycle.

 

[getswole89]

Idk why you guys bother responding to sworder hes the OG idiot if Meso

 

[Trenbologna]

Thanks again for the response.
I know self image is probably the issue but it just isnt as easy as "stopping" feeling a certain way.
I'm going to try cognitive therapy again and take it even more seriously this time around.
With this depression I dont even want to get out of bed let alone hit the gym.
Its like waking up with flu symptoms even though you are not sick. Combined with not giving a shit that you're not getting up and going.
It's truly a pathetic feeling.

I'm starting my fast again today.
I'm aiming for getting down to 230lbs.

Thanks for the advice.
I wont stop trying.

 

[Trenbologna]

Idk why you guys bother responding to sworder hes the OG idiot if Meso

I appreciate the advice.
I just disagree with your assessment.
I've seen his posts he knows what he's talking about.
I would rather someone be candid and upfront then sugarcoat everything and offer generic advice.
Thats the kind of stuff that means well but doesn't really help.
But again my fat ass appreciates your input bro!

 

[Thewizkid]

Hey everyone. One of my students (Niroshan) and I are trying to understand the practice of DNP in bodybuilding. Can you please help by correcting or adding to the below? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Sorry it is so long but we want to understand properly. Feel free to only answer part.


1. What substances should you and shouldn’t you use with DNP?

(a) What shouldn’t you use with DNP? We’ve heard alcohol, illicit drugs like ecstasy, any others? Certain AASs?

(b) What should you or do you use with DNP? Certain AASs? pre-workouts? other fat loss supplements?

2. How do you practice DNP?

From my understanding you should:

(a) probably start with a low dose first (i.e. 200mg) and slowly increase after a minimum of 4 days if you need more, up to a maximum dose around 600-800mg.

(b) not be on DNP for more than 10 days.

(c) eat mostly fat and protein, avoiding carbohydrates where possible, to avoid excessive heat.

(d) avoid using DNP before sleep so that you don’t get night sweats.

(e) use air-conditioning and cold showers to stay cool.

Is this correct? How does this align with your practices? Is there anything I missed that you might do to reduce risk?


3. What is your understanding of DNP in terms of:

(a) how it works in the body?

(b) risks and side effects?

I'd never use DNP again but if i did id take a lot more protective supplements
supplements that support the mitochondria and liver
also avoid things that impede liver function, benzodiazepines, grapefruit juice, anti-histamine, anti acids, oral steroids, letrozole/arimidex, less gear

essential nutrients in my opinion to be safe:
b complex, vitamin e (mixed), vitamin c, selenium, zinc, magnesium, NAC, Choline, Inositol, L-Methionine, molybdenum, taurine, essential fatty acids, MSM, L carnitine, alpha lipoic acid

also a diet moderate-low protein, low sugar, low iron would be best with fruits and vegetables, essentially fats,

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

However I know people will still use it and if this treatment has any validity then maybe getting it out there can save lives. You seem to have a platform that may extend beyond Meso.

Wow, thanks so much Trenbologna (bloody awesome screen name BTW)!
This is very interesting. Do you often read scientific papers about the drugs you use? Do you have a background in science or medicine? I sure as hell don't (well, background in social science but that's pretty useless when it comes to understanding medical papers) so there are definite limits to my understanding of these treatments for DNP overdose. Hemoperfusion you obviously can't do at home, but glucocorticoid treatments may have potential. I was going to ask if you guys have access to these but then I thought "is there any drug you guys can't access?"

And in the interest of honesty and also human behavior I will also admit to possessing dnp and I will almost certainly try it at some point.

To challenge myself I have tried extreme fasting I once fasted for a little over 4 weeks (34 days) on only electrolyte water and sugarless drink mixes. I went from 260lbs to 211lbs.
Yes I'm a strange one.

So, given your knowledge of the risk how would you justify taking DNP? I think i would be scared shitless!

Don't worry you aren't the first strange one I have come across in these forums. There seem to be plenty of you out there

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

I'd never use DNP again but if i did id take a lot more protective supplements
supplements that support the mitochondria and liver
also avoid things that impede liver function, benzodiazepines, grapefruit juice, anti-histamine, anti acids, oral steroids, letrozole/arimidex, less gear

essential nutrients in my opinion to be safe:
b complex, vitamin e (mixed), vitamin c, selenium, zinc, magnesium, NAC, Choline, Inositol, L-Methionine, molybdenum, taurine, essential fatty acids, MSM, L carnitine, alpha lipoic acid

also a diet moderate-low protein, low sugar, low iron would be best with fruits and vegetables, essentially fats,

Thanks, that's very useful information

I'd never use DNP again

Why not?

 

[Thewizkid]

Thanks, that's very useful information



Why not?

Just being a poison, it isn't ideal from a health perspective

 

[Trenbologna]

Wow, thanks so much Trenbologna (bloody awesome screen name BTW)!
This is very interesting. Do you often read scientific papers about the drugs you use? Do you have a background in science or medicine? I sure as hell don't (well, background in social science but that's pretty useless when it comes to understanding medical papers) so there are definite limits to my understanding of these treatments for DNP overdose. Hemoperfusion you obviously can't do at home, but glucocorticoid treatments may have potential. I was going to ask if you guys have access to these but then I thought "is there any drug you guys can't access?"



So, given your knowledge of the risk how would you justify taking DNP? I think i would be scared shitless!

Don't worry you aren't the first strange one I have come across in these forums. There seem to be plenty of you out there

Sorry it took a while to respond. I lost a family member with lung cancer prematurely to COVID. I wasn't if the mood to talk to anyone about anything.
So I usually try to read up extra on extreme stuff like DNP or insulin of course anyone should read up if they are thinking of trying something so potentially dangerous. I just got lucky stumbling upon that article about the China warehouse incident.
The hemoperfusion of course can't be done at home but if you are suffering from extreme high temperature 104⁰+ and make it to the hospital in time they should be able to pass your blood through an extracorporeal circuit with a disposable, adsorbent-containing cartridge , typically activated charcoal or an exchange resin. (Yes I got that off the interweb).
I mean in the case where nothing else could possibly save you this treatment just might do it. You rush to the hospital, explain exactly what you took and that your body is going into hyperthermia and that you need hemoperfusion treatment immediately. I had never heard a treatment mentioned other then dantrolene up until I read that article.
I know people are going to take it so they might as well be aware of any treatment options.
I am now not as certain about taking it despite the fact that I gained a shit ton of weight since the death in the family.
I'm now up to 287lbs. I started wellbutrin today and it seemed to help with my food cravings a lot. I will continue to take bupropion 100mg 2x/day with 8mg of naltrexone in an alcohol suspension I made.
Just homemade Contrave. I have adderall as backup but I use it sparingly since I build up a resistance quick. All I need is to control my appetite for a week and I usually regain my ability to eat less and be satisfied.

 

[Aftermath9716]

Sorry it took a while to respond. I lost a family member with lung cancer prematurely to COVID. I wasn't if the mood to talk to anyone about anything.
So I usually try to read up extra on extreme stuff like DNP or insulin of course anyone should read up if they are thinking of trying something so potentially dangerous. I just got lucky stumbling upon that article about the China warehouse incident.
The hemoperfusion of course can't be done at home but if you are suffering from extreme high temperature 104⁰+ and make it to the hospital in time they should be able to pass your blood through an extracorporeal circuit with a disposable, adsorbent-containing cartridge , typically activated charcoal or an exchange resin. (Yes I got that off the interweb).
I mean in the case where nothing else could possibly save you this treatment just might do it. You rush to the hospital, explain exactly what you took and that your body is going into hyperthermia and that you need hemoperfusion treatment immediately. I had never heard a treatment mentioned other then dantrolene up until I read that article.
I know people are going to take it so they might as well be aware of any treatment options.
I am now not as certain about taking it despite the fact that I gained a shit ton of weight since the death in the family.
I'm now up to 287lbs. I started wellbutrin today and it seemed to help with my food cravings a lot. I will continue to take bupropion 100mg 2x/day with 8mg of naltrexone in an alcohol suspension I made.
Just homemade Contrave. I have adderall as backup but I use it sparingly since I build up a resistance quick. All I need is to control my appetite for a week and I usually regain my ability to eat less and be satisfied.

Pretty sure the person is long gone bro and sorry about your loss.

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Pretty sure the person is long gone bro and sorry about your loss.

nah, i'm still here haven't been on this forum much lately as I have been writing up all the stuff that I have found for publication