US domesctic only getting. caught: after browsing this forum + web: conclusion

[malfeasance]

Interesting. I wonder if USPS is even more lenient then

USPS has law enforcement tasked to it. 2 kinds. The first is USPS inspectors (see Millard's post above). But there are only so many of those. Second is task forces made up of local PD guys from all around that get "tasked" to work at various USPS facilities.

These guys use dogs and look at packages for all sorts of things that indicate "suspicion."

They are full time, several of them, at the USPS sorting facility, deciding which packages catch their interest.

UPS and FedEx also have local law enforcement tasked to some of their facilities, again, several officers, full time, trying to catch contraband.

This is not a guess or some idle speculation about how this works. I am pretty sure I posted some Fourth Amendment case law here in the last few years with law enforcement tasked to a FedEx facility - an appellate court examining a Fourth Amendment issue reciting the facts about the package and whether the officers had probable cause. But the point here is that the officers in that case were assigned to the Fed Ex facility.

The USPS teams are very active and believe wholeheartedly in what they are doing. They are diligent and push the rules as much as they legally can get away with, because they believe in their mission.

 

[SunnyInAZ]

I worked for USPS for 5yrs. They lose billions of $ every year. They prefer to deliver any and everything. Package has to be really sus to get any attention. Even a package that reeks of weed I was told to just deliver it cuz I couldn’t actually see what it was. The only time I’ve seen the inspectors get involved in anything was when a carrier was threatened and or assaulted. I’ve heard of more carriers getting busted by inspectors than regular people getting things in mail. While postal inspectors are definitely the real deal when they they do get involved in things it’s the exception not the rule. I highly suspect its when someone is snitching and not just things being caught in the mail.

Edit: FWIW I’ve never had anything through USPS get seized but have had 2 from UPS/FedEx get seized

 

[McIron]

I worked for USPS for 5yrs. They lose billions of $ every year. They prefer to deliver any and everything. Package has to be really sus to get any attention. Even a package that reeks of weed I was told to just deliver it cuz I couldn’t actually see what it was. The only time I’ve seen the inspectors get involved in anything was when a carrier was threatened and or assaulted. I’ve heard of more carriers getting busted by inspectors than regular people getting things in mail. While postal inspectors are definitely the real deal when they they do get involved in things it’s the exception not the rule. I highly suspect its when someone is snitching and not just things being caught in the mail.

Edit: FWIW I’ve never had anything through USPS get seized but have had 2 from UPS/FedEx get seized

That's crazy to hear it reeked lol and they still said send it.
I guess that makes domestic more appealing for sure now

 

[Millard]

This is not a guess or some idle speculation about how this works. I am pretty sure I posted some Fourth Amendment case law here in the last few years with law enforcement tasked to a FedEx facility - an appellate court examining a Fourth Amendment issue reciting the facts about the package and whether the officers had probable cause. But the point here is that the officers in that case were assigned to the Fed Ex facility.

I'm looking for more info about this. If you have the time, please share this.

I just remember that the U.S. indicted FedEx in 2014 on conspiracy to distribute controlled substances charges that were dismissed a couple of years later.

FedEx actively fought the government's pressuring them to act as an extension of law enforcement and won. (Maybe they didn't win on the facts of the matter -- fed prosecutors fucked up badly in its ignorance of fedex corporate structure, and unknowingly allowed statute of limitations to expire -- but nonetheless they refused to give in like UPS.)

So my question, how/why/when did they start cooperating with DEA/feds/etc.?

 

[Laxbro88]

I'm looking for more info about this. If you have the time, please share this.

I just remember that the U.S. indicted FedEx in 2014 on conspiracy to distribute controlled substances charges that were dismissed a couple of years later.

FedEx actively fought the government's pressuring them to act as an extension of law enforcement and won. (Maybe they didn't win on the facts of the matter -- fed prosecutors fucked up badly in its ignorance of fedex corporate structure, and unknowingly allowed statute of limitations to expire -- but nonetheless they refused to give in like UPS.)

So my question, how/why/when did they start cooperating with DEA/feds/etc.?

Damn thank you Millard, very interesting discussion.

 

[malfeasance]

I'm looking for more info about this. If you have the time, please share this.

I just remember that the U.S. indicted FedEx in 2014 on conspiracy to distribute controlled substances charges that were dismissed a couple of years later.

FedEx actively fought the government's pressuring them to act as an extension of law enforcement and won. (Maybe they didn't win on the facts of the matter -- fed prosecutors fucked up badly in its ignorance of fedex corporate structure, and unknowingly allowed statute of limitations to expire -- but nonetheless they refused to give in like UPS.)

So my question, how/why/when did they start cooperating with DEA/feds/etc.?

Cops Are Dressing Up Like FedEx Guys and Arresting People for Drugs

A federal court ruled this month that evidence of drugs obtained by police from a package at a FedEx sorting center was not seized unconstitutionally,

reason.com

 

[baked_cake]

Cops Are Dressing Up Like FedEx Guys and Arresting People for Drugs

A federal court ruled this month that evidence of drugs obtained by police from a package at a FedEx sorting center was not seized unconstitutionally,

reason.com

Brownsville, Texas. That's a "source city for illegal narcotics," the officer said, who was further interested by the parcel's glued seams and the fact that it was a "moving" box. Those get his attention "right away," he testified, because of their material, which he claims are well-suited to shipping drugs.


All the weed that was caught at our facility was packed into moving boxes too. (Uhaul or something)

 

[malfeasance]

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-8th-circuit/1235888.html

This is an Eighth Circuit case.

A short quote showing that parcel interdiction operations at Fed Ex are nothing new (this case is from 2004):

On April 13, 2001, Hawthorne, California, police officer Melanie Newenham, who was participating in a “parcel interdiction” operation at a Federal Express (“FedEx”) facility in Hawthorne, removed a suspicious looking package from a conveyor belt.   After removing the package, she gave it to Detective Julian Catano, who, also believing the package to be suspicious, decided to submit it to a canine sniff.   The dog alerted to the package, signifying that it contained illegal drugs.   Detective Catano took the package to Lee Edwards, the FedEx facility manager, and told her that he suspected that the package contained drugs.   Edwards asked whether Catano wanted her to open the package.   Detective Catano testified that he told her that “if she wanted to open it that would be fine ․” Edwards opened the box . . .

 

[Millard]

Cops Are Dressing Up Like FedEx Guys and Arresting People for Drugs

A federal court ruled this month that evidence of drugs obtained by police from a package at a FedEx sorting center was not seized unconstitutionally,

reason.com

Thank you!

 

[malfeasance]

I'm looking for more info about this. If you have the time, please share this.

I just remember that the U.S. indicted FedEx in 2014 on conspiracy to distribute controlled substances charges that were dismissed a couple of years later.

FedEx actively fought the government's pressuring them to act as an extension of law enforcement and won. (Maybe they didn't win on the facts of the matter -- fed prosecutors fucked up badly in its ignorance of fedex corporate structure, and unknowingly allowed statute of limitations to expire -- but nonetheless they refused to give in like UPS.)

So my question, how/why/when did they start cooperating with DEA/feds/etc.?

This article discusses the 2014 case and how, afterward, well "times change." lol

Tuesday Talk*: Who Put The “Fed” In FedEx?

It was 2014, and FedEx, or Federal Express as they were formerly officially named, refused to cooperate. They were indicted for it. The putative argument was that FedEx, whose role was to take boxe…

blog.simplejustice.us

Note the officers "working interdiction" at the sorting facility.

 

[malfeasance]

After those completed deliveries, in October 2016, Drug Enforcement Administration Task Force Officer Kevin Cornell and Guilford County Deputy Sheriff Thomas Gordy were screening packages at the “FedEx Mid-Atlantic Hub” in Greensboro, North Carolina (the FedEx facility), and noticed a suspicious package on the conveyor belt. The package attracted Deputy Gordy’s attention because of the type of box, the heavy taping used, and the sender’s location in Chandler, Arizona, which was a known “source city” for narcotics.

https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/194755.P.pdf

 

[BrockSamson42]

Absolutely, NOT!

Most people don't immediately realize this but usps IS law enforcement!

The investigative and law enforcement arm of USPS is called the United States Postal Inspection Service. It's a major player in the U.S. war on drugs.

Millard dropping knowledge bombs this
Morning. I did not know this. I thought it was all DEA based.

 

[malfeasance]

Millard dropping knowledge bombs this
Morning. I did not know this. I thought it was all DEA based.

The DEA has folks assigned to sorting facilities, too. They do not, however, care about your four vials of testosterone, because no US Attorney is going to want to prosecute that case, and the DEA is trying to make dealer cases, not possession cases. The local guys, however, that is a different story.

The postal inspectors will run it by the US Attorney, and, if not interested (and he won't be interested, because federally mere possession of steroids is a minor offense, and the US Attorney does not have resources to pursue minor offenses), they will give it to the locals. Locals will usually be much more interested than the feds. In many jurisdictions, mere possession of any steroids is a felony, and in others possession over a certain low amount is a felony, so they are being handed a felony case all gift wrapped to up their felony case stats.

 

[Millard]

This article discusses the 2014 case and how, afterward, well "times change." lol

Tuesday Talk*: Who Put The “Fed” In FedEx?

It was 2014, and FedEx, or Federal Express as they were formerly officially named, refused to cooperate. They were indicted for it. The putative argument was that FedEx, whose role was to take boxe…

blog.simplejustice.us

Note the officers "working interdiction" at the sorting facility.

Thanks for sharing this. I particularly enjoyed the FedEx response to Orin Kerr's tweet:


View: https://twitter.com/FedExHelp/status/1427374567102849024

 

[T&H]

USPS has law enforcement tasked to it. 2 kinds. The first is USPS inspectors (see Millard's post above). But there are only so many of those. Second is task forces made up of local PD guys from all around that get "tasked" to work at various USPS facilities.

These guys use dogs and look at packages for all sorts of things that indicate "suspicion."

They are full time, several of them, at the USPS sorting facility, deciding which packages catch their interest.

UPS and FedEx also have local law enforcement tasked to some of their facilities, again, several officers, full time, trying to catch contraband.

This is not a guess or some idle speculation about how this works. I am pretty sure I posted some Fourth Amendment case law here in the last few years with law enforcement tasked to a FedEx facility - an appellate court examining a Fourth Amendment issue reciting the facts about the package and whether the officers had probable cause. But the point here is that the officers in that case were assigned to the Fed Ex facility.

The USPS teams are very active and believe wholeheartedly in what they are doing. They are diligent and push the rules as much as they legally can get away with, because they believe in their mission.

Where are you getting this info about these task forces assigned to work at sorting facilities. Are you saying every city with a local usps sorting facility has local police officers assigned to work full time there inspecting packs?

 

[malfeasance]

Where are you getting this info about these task forces assigned to work at sorting facilities. Are you saying every city with a local usps sorting facility has local police officers assigned to work full time there inspecting packs?

I do not know about every city, but they are very common.

As for where I am getting it - not the internet. I know this from my own personal knowledge.

But if you just have to have an internet source, I mean, this is not Top Secret. See page 11.

https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/USPS-Combating-Illicit-Drugs-in-the-Mail-Strategy-Document.pdf

"Task forces bring together vital resources from multiple law enforcement agencies to maximize collective impact. For example, we partner with the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas (HIDTA) and other state and local task forces across the country to coordinate investigations. We also have Postal Inspectors on DEA, FBI, and HSI task forces across the nation. These arrangements enable the identification, investigation, and prosecution of criminal suspects.

During Fiscal Year 2020, the Postal Inspection Service created a standardized nationwide Task Force Officer (TFO) program. TFOs are typically state and local police officers who are embedded with our Postal Inspectors."


While this mentions 2020, at least for the "standardized nationwide" TFO program, I know (again personal knowledge here) these task forces have been operating much longer than that.

They are "official" now, I guess, since 2020. They even advertise among law enforcement to get their numbers up.

 

[BayleyM]

Is there a difference in risk between ordering from someone like qsc domestic vs overseas? According to qsc, the risk is the same as they have a way to make it through customs 100 percent with a forwarder for shipping.

 

[milkbone]

Most people don't immediately realize this but usps IS law enforcement!

The investigative and law enforcement arm of USPS is called the United States Postal Inspection Service.

For a time the Postmaster of New Rochelle was the highest ranking Federal Employee in a county in NY (Westchester) that's absolutely teaming with FBI, DEA, CIA, Homeland Security, etc, and that's only the ones that are publicly known. Many secret to most task forces from Yonkers to Peekskill, huge concentration in White Plains. Additionally, Postal Inspectors have a rep for being tenacious and getting who they want.

 

[tangenial]

The DEA has folks assigned to sorting facilities, too. They do not, however, care about your four vials of testosterone, because no US Attorney is going to want to prosecute that case, and the DEA is trying to make dealer cases, not possession cases. The local guys, however, that is a different story.

The postal inspectors will run it by the US Attorney, and, if not interested (and he won't be interested, because federally mere possession of steroids is a minor offense, and the US Attorney does not have resources to pursue minor offenses), they will give it to the locals. Locals will usually be much more interested than the feds. In many jurisdictions, mere possession of any steroids is a felony, and in others possession over a certain low amount is a felony, so they are being handed a felony case all gift wrapped to up their felony case stats.

I believe the smaller the 'locals' the higher the chance they go after you. Locals in highly populated areas have better things to do but I could be wrong.

 

[marsupial]

I believe the smaller the 'locals' the higher the chance they go after you. Locals in highly populated areas have better things to do but I could be wrong.

I agree. Not just based on population but also based on the crime rate in your area (ie demographics) as well