Using Aromasin for Pct

[TheGuy85]

I disagree and think an oral during pct is a bad idea... How would suppressing yourself further be beneficial?

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134319236

The thread explains it in some detail. But the idea is, that if you run an oral like anavar at a low enough dosage it will not suppress you and you will still slowly recover. This would help you maintain gains during PCT. So in theory I could run say Nolvadex at 20mg for 6 weeks instead of 4 and run maybe 5 to 10mg of Anavar for the first couple weeks of PCT (Maybe start at 10 and then taper down to lower dosage of anavar). This isn't the first discussion I have seen on the topic, I got the idea elsewhere but I found educated people on this forum explain the benefits of doing it. It is supposed to help with the dreaded "rollback effect" that happens post cycle.

 

[Burrr]

Gotcha, seems like a pretty good protocol bro.. Are you planning on getting labs again in a few weeks once you discontinue all the serms?

I'm gonna test again in two months, see how I really recovered.

 

[Dr JIM]

Absolute bullshit. Besides being suppressive of the HPTA, which defeats the purpose of PCT, SARMs are damaging to the liver. SARMs are total garbage and your recommendation to use then during PCT is HIGHLY irresponsible.




Beware of these shills from NTBM. They are trying to establish a presence on Meso to sell their snake oil.

cbs

Although interesting and perhaps applicable to healthy BB, the effects of those drugs which reverse sarcopenia, or SKM aptosis, are much more apt to be effective in those PATIENTS WHICH HAVE IT!
JIM

 

[Dr JIM]

I disagree and think an oral during pct is a bad idea... How would suppressing yourself further be beneficial?

Your wisdom exceeds you youth Ray!

There should be NO DOUBT, the administration of exogenous TT or it's analogs, during PCT, delays HTPA recovery and suppresses LH secretion. WHY? Because, the E-2 and TT feedback mechanisms both work in a synergistic manner, if EITHER are increased LH secretion declines, it IS that simple!

You can't have your cake and eat it to when it comes to PCT, BOTH E-2 AND TT must reach the lower limits of normal before effective HTPA recovery is possible.

BILL uses this approach for those mates whom have been cycling HIGH potency, high end dosages, for prolonged intervals, awaiting PCT.

The idea is (and I most certainly agree) to supplement high end AAS users with SOME low potency low dose AAS during their post cycle period which ameliorates the "crash" many experience.

The net effect of the latter is mates cruising BETWEEN cycles and thereafter begin the process of stacking CYCLES, never fully recovering the HTPA. The latter is an excellent means of ensuring a lifetime of TRT, and that is NOT good, unless the notion of infinite TRT is appealing!
jim

jim

 

[TheGuy85]

I disagree and think an oral during pct is a bad idea... How would suppressing yourself further be beneficial?

I suppose we have different experiences post cycle. I typically run 560-700mg Test Prop with 420-560mg of Tren Ace. I run the Prop lower now that I use TNE on the days that I workout, so at the moment I am running about 560 mg of Test Prop and about 150mg of TNE every week (TNE @ 50mg 3x a week pre-workout) with 490mg of Tren Ace a week and I am taking 22.5mg Methylstenbolone ED (couldn't get my hands on any orals so I decided to run this PH). Now I have ran similar cycles without an oral with Test Prop at 700mg a week and Tren Ace at 560 a week in the past and if I run this cycle for 4+ weeks I will lose most of gains during PCT, so much so, that the cycle was almost worthless. This is why I have been experimenting with short cycles and if I keep them around 2 weeks I make strength gains that I keep, probably because I recover so fast. Now after a longer, traditional cycle those first few weeks of PCT destroy my gains but I make great gains while on cycle. If I could prevent that "rollback" that happens during PCT it would definitely be worth it to run a mild, low dose oral AAS, even if I have to run a longer PCT and spend more time off cycle. I would rather lengthen my PCT and time off cycle by a few weeks than lose most of my 2+ months of gains I made on cycle.

If you recover great during PCT and don't experience a severe loss of gains, there is no need to run a low dose oral for a couple weeks during PCT. But in my case it may be a worthwhile endeavor.

 

[raysugar1234]

I suppose we have different experiences post cycle. I typically run 560-700mg Test Prop with 420-560mg of Tren Ace. I run the Prop lower now that I use TNE on the days that I workout, so at the moment I am running about 560 mg of Test Prop and about 150mg of TNE every week (TNE @ 50mg 3x a week pre-workout) with 490mg of Tren Ace a week and I am taking 22.5mg Methylstenbolone ED (couldn't get my hands on any orals so I decided to run this PH). Now I have ran similar cycles without an oral with Test Prop at 700mg a week and Tren Ace at 560 a week in the past and if I run this cycle for 4+ weeks I will lose most of gains during PCT, so much so, that the cycle was almost worthless. This is why I have been experimenting with short cycles and if I keep them around 2 weeks I make strength gains that I keep, probably because I recover so fast. Now after a longer, traditional cycle those first few weeks of PCT destroy my gains but I make great gains while on cycle. If I could prevent that "rollback" that happens during PCT it would definitely be worth it to run a mild, low dose oral AAS, even if I have to run a longer PCT and spend more time off cycle. I would rather lengthen my PCT and time off cycle by a few weeks than lose most of my 2+ months of gains I made on cycle.

If you recover great during PCT and don't experience a severe loss of gains, there is no need to run a low dose oral for a couple weeks during PCT. But in my case it may be a worthwhile endeavor.

Do you think that maybe your being unrealistic about how much of the gains you can actually maintain without the gear? Just a thought.... Have you ever tried stepping down to a TRT dose for a little while before starting pct? That way it would not be such a drastic change from multiple compounds to just nothing...

 

[TheGuy85]

I would be happy to keep half my gains. But I keep maybe a quarter to and eighth of the gains I make on cycle. My last cycle was a dud. I ran cem products chems for and ai and pct and that really fucked me up. Lost all my gains during PCT and was actually weaker than when I started the cycle by the time I finished PCT. Hundreds of dollars wasted and a major set back in progress. This is not the norm. That was from bullshit chems. Normally when I run a legit SERM for pct I maintain some gains.

 

[raysugar1234]

I would be happy to keep half my gains. But I keep maybe a quarter to and eighth of the gains I make on cycle. My last cycle was a dud. I ran cem products chems for and ai and pct and that really fucked me up. Lost all my gains during PCT and was actually weaker than when I started the cycle by the time I finished PCT. Hundreds of dollars wasted and a major set back in progress. This is not the norm. That was from bullshit chems. Normally when I run a legit SERM for pct I maintain some gains.

I know that is such a shame about Cem... I have some of there products right now I planned on using for PCT but I won't be using them now... I have some pharm grade on the way.. I am SO happy that I found out about the problems with the CEM serms before I started my PCT and i have plenty of time to get some legit products.. Too bad for you bro and that is really upsetting that it had to happen to you.. Such a waste and set back.... Loss of gains and a shitty recovery, that really blows..

 

[raysugar1234]

Your wisdom exceeds you youth Ray!

There should be NO DOUBT, the administration of exogenous TT or it's analogs, during PCT, delays HTPA recovery and suppresses LH secretion. WHY? Because, the E-2 and TT feedback mechanisms both work in a synergistic manner, if EITHER are increased LH secretion declines, it IS that simple!

You can't have your cake and eat it to when it comes to PCT, BOTH E-2 AND TT must reach the lower limits of normal before effective HTPA recovery is possible.

BILL uses this approach for those mates whom have been cycling HIGH potency, high end dosages, for prolonged intervals, awaiting PCT.

The idea is (and I most certainly agree) to supplement high end AAS users with SOME low potency low dose AAS during their post cycle period which ameliorates the "crash" many experience.

The net effect of the latter is mates cruising BETWEEN cycles and thereafter begin the process of stacking CYCLES, never fully recovering the HTPA. The latter is an excellent means of ensuring a lifetime of TRT, and that is NOT good, unless the notion of infinite TRT is appealing!
jim

jim

Thanks Jim, I was hoping to get your input on this. I guess it comes down to what is more important to you, maintaining more of the gains you made or a proper recovery.. For me it is a proper recovery...

 

[TheGuy85]

Cem fucked me up, fucked that young guy that ran the epistane up, and I think they fucked JB up. I am still angry about that shit. I was running 100mg of prop and 70mg of Tren Ace ED so I was shut down hard. That bunk PCT hurt.

As far as low potency, low dose orals go, I honestly don't see the issue if you find it beneficial. The worst that can happen is you are extending a cycle a couple weeks. But you are still running PCT properly and you take a few more weeks off than you would normally between cycles. If the method works as it has been suggested you recover slightly slower (at first) but maintain your gains. I see that as a huge plus. I run the low dose oral for a couple weeks post cycle, extend my PCT a couple weeks and just add a few weeks to my off cycle time period. I can't really afford a series of blood work right now. But maybe in the near future I can try this method and see how I recover on a low dose oral during PCT and see how
much more gains I retain. So I could get bloods done after I finish running the low dose oral during PCT and see where my levels are and then get bloods done right after PCT and then a month again a month later.

I run all short esters and stop prop 3-4 days b4 pct and stop tren 2 days b4 PCT. I pin TNE those 3-4 days until PCT.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Fuck CEM.. I literally would've rather had a source screw me on a $1000+ order and not send shit than go through that..

If you're going to take my money just fucking take it, don't send me worthless garbage and fuck with my body..

It's also the attitude they had when I brought it to their attention..

 

[TheGuy85]

Also I don't see why you wouldn't recover properly if you say ran 6 weeks PCT and for the first 2 weeks run a low dose oral. It wouldn't ultimately stop your recovery (you would still recover but PCT would just be longer), if anything you can look at it as extending your cycle 2 weeks and then running normal PCT as usual except that you would theoretically be slowly recovering during those 2 weeks.

That would be like saying a guy who runs a 10 week cycle versus 8 wouldn't recover properly because he ran his cycle two weeks longer. They both, however, run a proper pct at the same length.

 

[raysugar1234]

Cem fucked me up, fucked that young guy that ran the epistane up, and I think they fucked JB up. I am still angry about that shit. I was running 100mg of prop and 70mg of Tren Ace ED so I was shut down hard. That bunk PCT hurt.

As far as low potency, low dose orals go, I honestly don't see the issue if you find it beneficial. The worst that can happen is you are extending a cycle a couple weeks. But you are still running PCT properly and you take a few more weeks off than you would normally between cycles. If the method works as it has been suggested you recover slightly slower (at first) but maintain your gains. I see that as a huge plus. I run the low dose oral for a couple weeks post cycle, extend my PCT a couple weeks and just add a few weeks to my off cycle time period. I can't really afford a series of blood work right now. But maybe in the near future I can try this method and see how I recover on a low dose oral during PCT and see how
much more gains I retain. So I could get bloods done after I finish running the low dose oral during PCT and see where my levels are and then get bloods done right after PCT and then a month again a month later.

I run all short esters and stop prop 3-4 days b4 pct and stop tren 2 days b4 PCT. I pin TNE those 3-4 days until PCT.

Yeah bro they fucked over a lot of people, it's fucking bullshit. Well if you do try this out, with the orals in your pct I'm curious to see how it works for you... So make sure to let us know if you decide to do it...

 

[TheGuy85]

I don't want people to think I am recommending it as the only way or the best way to PCT. If you maintain a good portion of your gains with a traditional PCT than this method would be pointless and you would just be slowing recovery. But traditional PCT just isn't enough to keep a worthwhile portion of my gains. The crash immediately post cycle destroys a majority of my gains within those first couple weeks. I need to find a way to ease my way into PCT so that I can soften the blow.

 

[Dr JIM]

Sure you will if that next cycle begging in 2-4 weeks.

Your using some very atypical PCT meds none (except the AI) of which are physiologically based. Consequently recommending these type of alterations should be supported by more than just "your experience".

AP rest assured, my rebuttal to your comment was not PERSONAL, but rather factually based. However should you choose to make those experiences know to others ensure your audience does not misconstrue your anecdotal experimentation as literature or evidence based.

Just simply state base on my experience ...... but that preface is very important since we have many VERY INEXPERIENCED VISITORS skimming Meso pages on a daily basis.

jim

 

[raysugar1234]

I don't want people to think I am recommending it as the only way or the best way to PCT. If you maintain a good portion of your gains with a traditional PCT than this method would be pointless and you would just be slowing recovery. But traditional PCT just isn't enough to keep a worthwhile portion of my gains. The crash immediately post cycle destroys a majority of my gains within those first couple weeks. I need to find a way to ease my way into PCT so that I can soften the blow.

I see where your coming from, and obviously it's not the best way. But I understand why your upset because you lose so much of your gains in pct. So maybe it will work well for you and you will be able to hold onto more of your gains using this method.. Have you considered running prop at the end of your cycle to start pct sooner?? This could help...

 

[Dr JIM]

I don't want people to think I am recommending it as the only way or the best way to PCT. If you maintain a good portion of your gains with a traditional PCT than this method would be pointless and you would just be slowing recovery. But traditional PCT just isn't enough to keep a worthwhile portion of my gains. The crash immediately post cycle destroys a majority of my gains within those first couple weeks. I need to find a way to ease my way into PCT so that I can soften the blow.

I've personally no objection to tapering BUT as your describing it PCT is NOT effective during that interval.

Tapering is AOK especially with a lower potency AAS with a shorter half life because if it's used appropriately as a BRIDE to PCT, the waiting period to clear ALL exogenous AAS and start formal PCT may be SHORTENED CONSIDERABLY!

(However the time BETWEEN cycles may be extended as a result)!

jim

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

I see where your coming from, and obviously it's not the best way. But I understand why your upset because you lose so much of your gains in pct. So maybe it will work well for you and you will be able to hold onto more of your gains using this method.. Have you considered running prop at the end of your cycle to start pct sooner?? This could help...

I believe Guy runs short esters..

Part if this is trial and error to see what works for your body.. I don't think what you're suggesting would work for the majority though Guy..

 

[Dr JIM]

]I've personally no objection to[/U] tapering BUT as your describing it PCT is NOT effective during that interval.

Tapering is AOK especially with a lower potency AAS with a shorter half life because if it's used appropriately as a BRIDE to PCT, the waiting period to clear ALL exogenous AAS and start formal PCT may be SHORTENED CONSIDERABLY!

(However the time BETWEEN cycles may be extended as a result)!

jim

If that reads as being draconian or authoritarian (and I can understand how it may be) that's not my intention whatsoever. My comment should only be construed as reflective as what is or is not effective for PCT.

Regards
jim

 

[Dr JIM]

I've personally no objection to tapering BUT as your describing it PCT is NOT effective during that interval.

Tapering is AOK especially with a lower potency AAS with a shorter half life because if it's used appropriately as a BRIDE to PCT, the waiting period to clear ALL exogenous AAS and start formal PCT may be SHORTENED CONSIDERABLY!

(However the time BETWEEN cycles may be extended as a result)!

jim

My "objection" is what i am referring to.