Ways to reduce physical (and mental) deleterious effects from nandrolone?

[MFAAS]

Just wondering if anyone has a comprehensive list of harm reduction supplements for nandrolone. The only ones I know of are the obvious keep your dose as low as possible and do your cardio.

There is another that I learned a few years back about which is to take 5g of taurine while taking nandrolone (3g AM, 2g PM, try to take on empty stomach but honestly usually I take my AM dose with breakfast and my other AM supps and my PM dose I take before bed along with my Red Yeast Rice Extract, Ubiquinol, (on cycle only), and L-Theanine, and 5-6mg of melatonin). Now, the studies below where they directly dose both nandrolone and taurine together were done in rats, so may not translate to humans. However, as far as I am aware, there's really no downside to taking taurine.

Impact of chronic administration of anabolic androgenic steroids and taurine on blood pressure in rats
^^ done in rats ^^

Amelioration of nandrolone decanoate-induced testicular and sperm toxicity in rats by taurine: effects on steroidogenesis, redox and inflammatory cascades, and intrinsic apoptotic pathway
^^ done in rats ^^

Taurine increases testicular function in aged rats by inhibiting oxidative stress and apoptosis
^^ obviousltdone in rats ^^

And, saving the best for last! Effects and Mechanisms of Taurine as a Therapeutic Agent
^^ a review that also includes studies on rats ^^
Table 1 in this study is just incredible. It lists all the the different cytoprotective actions of taurine:

Cytoprotection	Functions of Taurine
Antioxidation	Anti-inflammation by neutralization of hypochlorous to produce taurine chloramine (Kim and Cha, 2014; Marcinkiewicz and Kontny, 2014)
Antioxidation	Diminishes superoxide by conjugating with uridine of tRNALeu(UUR) in mitochondria (Jong et al., 2012; Schaffer et al., 2014a)
Antioxidation	Generates ATP by encoding mitochondrial ND6 protein (Jong et al., 2012; Schaffer et al., 2016; Shetewy et al., 2016) Prevents mitochondrial membrane permeability and apoptosis (Ricci et al., 2008, Shetewy et al., 2016)
Antioxidation	Benefits mitochondrial disease, MELAS by providing substrate for taurine conjugation (Rikimaru et al., 2012; Schaffer et al., 2014b)
Energy metabolism	Activates complex I and NADH sensitive enzymes by reducing NADH/NAD+ ratio during glycolysis (Schaffer et al., 2016)
Energy metabolism	Restores fatty acid oxidation by increasing PPARalpha levels (Schaffer et al., 2016)
Energy metabolism	Conjugates bile acids to facilitate lipid absorption by intestines (Schaffer et al., 2016)
Gene expression	Changes transcription profile of metabolism-related genes (Park et al., 2006)
Gene expression	Modulates genes to induce longevity (Ito et al., 2014a)
Gene expression	Changes transcription factors (Schaffer et al., 2016)
Gene expression	Modulates protein phosphorylation and cell signalling (Lombardini, 1996; Ramila et al., 2015)
Endoplasmic reticulum (ER) stress	Attenuates ER stress by improving protein folding (Ito et al., 2015a)
ER Stress	Ameliorates stroke brain injury by inhibiting ER stress (Gharibani et al., 2015)
ER Stress	Protects neurons in stroke and Alzheimer’s disease (Prentice et al., 2015)
Neuromodulation	Protects CNS by agonizing GABAA, glycine and NMDA receptors (El Idrissi and L’Amoreaux, 2008; Chan et al., 2013)
Neuromodulation	Decreases seizures by binding with GABAA receptor (L’Amoreaux et al., 2010)
Neuromodulation	Protects against seizures by elevating glutamic acid decarboxylase (El Idrissi and L’Amoreaux, 2008)
Quality control	Protects cardiomyocytes by activating ubiquitin-proteasome system and autophagy (Jong et al., 2015)
Quality control	Attenuates toxin-mediated autophagy (Li et al., 2012; Bai et al., 2016)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Protects heart and brain during myocardial infarction and stroke by diminishing Ca2+ overload (Li et al., 2012; Bai et al., 2016)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Taurine loss during ischemia-reperfusion protects heart by reducing hypoxia-induced Ca2+ overload (Schaffer et al., 2002)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Taurine depletion leads to cardiomyopathy due to reduced activity of SR Ca2+ ATPase (Ramila et al., 2015)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Protects brain neurons during epilepsy by inducing Ca2+ binding proteins (Junyent et al., 2010)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Protects neurons against glutamate excitotoxicity by reducing glutamate-induced elevation of [Ca2+]i (Wu et al., 2005)
Osmoregulation	Serves as an organic osmolyte (Schaffer et al., 2002)

You can see that taurine has ALL KINDS OF potential protective benefits all over the entire body. From the brain and neurons, to the heart, to general metabolic benefits, to NAD+ and autophagy. Taurine is just an incredible supplement and in my opinion anybody who is on steroids should be taking it, but especially those who are taking nandrolone or trenbolone.



Does anybody know of any other ways to protect our bodies and minds from the deleterious effects of these incredible anabolic steroids?!?! In my experience, nothing out there beats NPP. Like it is just the best fucking steroid in the world. Zero side effects, incredible muscle growth, better mental outlook, more resilient to stress. Like I truly wish I could just cruise on NPP forever, it's just amazing. However, we obviously need breaks if we want to live much longer. I do want to die when I am like 70 or so, still in really good shape/very fit, still mentally sharp/not losing my mind. Obviously the best thing to do would be to just not take NPP or tren, but in the end, people, including myself, are going to do it.

So, does anybody know of any other powerful supplemental weapons that can fight for our health while on cycles of these more damaging steroids?

 

[RackPuller]

This 100% is bad info but adding a dht can balance the mental sides out for me ime

mast, var, drol to my test and nand help, other than that keeping estrogen in range, and counseling lol

And OP, thanks man - this is very helpful for me! Picking up some today

 

[NLM36]

This 100% is bad info but adding a dht can balance the mental sides out for me ime

mast, var, drol to my test and nand help, other than that keeping estrogen in range, and counseling lol

And OP, thanks man - this is very helpful for me! Picking up some today

Same. I’ll be heading to vitamin shop later to grab some.

 

[bigpoppachump2]

Just wondering if anyone has a comprehensive list of harm reduction supplements for nandrolone. The only ones I know of are the obvious keep your dose as low as possible and do your cardio.

There is another that I learned a few years back about which is to take 5g of taurine while taking nandrolone (3g AM, 2g PM, try to take on empty stomach but honestly usually I take my AM dose with breakfast and my other AM supps and my PM dose I take before bed along with my Red Yeast Rice Extract, Ubiquinol, (on cycle only), and L-Theanine, and 5-6mg of melatonin). Now, the studies below where they directly dose both nandrolone and taurine together were done in rats, so may not translate to humans. However, as far as I am aware, there's really no downside to taking taurine.

Impact of chronic administration of anabolic androgenic steroids and taurine on blood pressure in rats
^^ done in rats ^^

Amelioration of nandrolone decanoate-induced testicular and sperm toxicity in rats by taurine: effects on steroidogenesis, redox and inflammatory cascades, and intrinsic apoptotic pathway
^^ done in rats ^^

Taurine increases testicular function in aged rats by inhibiting oxidative stress and apoptosis
^^ obviousltdone in rats ^^

And, saving the best for last! Effects and Mechanisms of Taurine as a Therapeutic Agent
^^ a review that also includes studies on rats ^^
Table 1 in this study is just incredible. It lists all the the different cytoprotective actions of taurine:

Cytoprotection	Functions of Taurine
Antioxidation	Anti-inflammation by neutralization of hypochlorous to produce taurine chloramine (Kim and Cha, 2014; Marcinkiewicz and Kontny, 2014)
Antioxidation	Diminishes superoxide by conjugating with uridine of tRNALeu(UUR) in mitochondria (Jong et al., 2012; Schaffer et al., 2014a)
Antioxidation	Generates ATP by encoding mitochondrial ND6 protein (Jong et al., 2012; Schaffer et al., 2016; Shetewy et al., 2016) Prevents mitochondrial membrane permeability and apoptosis (Ricci et al., 2008, Shetewy et al., 2016)
Antioxidation	Benefits mitochondrial disease, MELAS by providing substrate for taurine conjugation (Rikimaru et al., 2012; Schaffer et al., 2014b)
Energy metabolism	Activates complex I and NADH sensitive enzymes by reducing NADH/NAD+ ratio during glycolysis (Schaffer et al., 2016)
Energy metabolism	Restores fatty acid oxidation by increasing PPARalpha levels (Schaffer et al., 2016)
Energy metabolism	Conjugates bile acids to facilitate lipid absorption by intestines (Schaffer et al., 2016)
Gene expression	Changes transcription profile of metabolism-related genes (Park et al., 2006)
Gene expression	Modulates genes to induce longevity (Ito et al., 2014a)
Gene expression	Changes transcription factors (Schaffer et al., 2016)
Gene expression	Modulates protein phosphorylation and cell signalling (Lombardini, 1996; Ramila et al., 2015)
Endoplasmic reticulum (ER) stress	Attenuates ER stress by improving protein folding (Ito et al., 2015a)
ER Stress	Ameliorates stroke brain injury by inhibiting ER stress (Gharibani et al., 2015)
ER Stress	Protects neurons in stroke and Alzheimer’s disease (Prentice et al., 2015)
Neuromodulation	Protects CNS by agonizing GABAA, glycine and NMDA receptors (El Idrissi and L’Amoreaux, 2008; Chan et al., 2013)
Neuromodulation	Decreases seizures by binding with GABAA receptor (L’Amoreaux et al., 2010)
Neuromodulation	Protects against seizures by elevating glutamic acid decarboxylase (El Idrissi and L’Amoreaux, 2008)
Quality control	Protects cardiomyocytes by activating ubiquitin-proteasome system and autophagy (Jong et al., 2015)
Quality control	Attenuates toxin-mediated autophagy (Li et al., 2012; Bai et al., 2016)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Protects heart and brain during myocardial infarction and stroke by diminishing Ca2+ overload (Li et al., 2012; Bai et al., 2016)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Taurine loss during ischemia-reperfusion protects heart by reducing hypoxia-induced Ca2+ overload (Schaffer et al., 2002)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Taurine depletion leads to cardiomyopathy due to reduced activity of SR Ca2+ ATPase (Ramila et al., 2015)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Protects brain neurons during epilepsy by inducing Ca2+ binding proteins (Junyent et al., 2010)
Ca2+ homeostasis	Protects neurons against glutamate excitotoxicity by reducing glutamate-induced elevation of [Ca2+]i (Wu et al., 2005)
Osmoregulation	Serves as an organic osmolyte (Schaffer et al., 2002)

You can see that taurine has ALL KINDS OF potential protective benefits all over the entire body. From the brain and neurons, to the heart, to general metabolic benefits, to NAD+ and autophagy. Taurine is just an incredible supplement and in my opinion anybody who is on steroids should be taking it, but especially those who are taking nandrolone or trenbolone.



Does anybody know of any other ways to protect our bodies and minds from the deleterious effects of these incredible anabolic steroids?!?! In my experience, nothing out there beats NPP. Like it is just the best fucking steroid in the world. Zero side effects, incredible muscle growth, better mental outlook, more resilient to stress. Like I truly wish I could just cruise on NPP forever, it's just amazing. However, we obviously need breaks if we want to live much longer. I do want to die when I am like 70 or so, still in really good shape/very fit, still mentally sharp/not losing my mind. Obviously the best thing to do would be to just not take NPP or tren, but in the end, people, including myself, are going to do it.

So, does anybody know of any other powerful supplemental weapons that can fight for our health while on cycles of these more damaging steroids?

NPP was my favorite compound for a couple years. After 3 years of blasting with it in every cycle I started to develop some annoying sides. #1 was sinus congestion!!! #2 was the first 2 times I used it NPP had no effects on libido and erections but that changed pretty quick. #3 was frigging anxiety and just a overall sense of uneasiness and horrible dreams.

I finally had to say goodbye to my beloved NPP

 

[TrEnsgender]

You have to specific, what kind of side-effects?

Mental health?
Cardiac health?
Bloodpressure, cholesterol...?

For the most cases taurine is always g2g.
There are different kinds to be adressed, working with cialis, nebivolol and kinds of statins with megadosing Q10 and OPC are quite common if you're using higher doses (up to 2000mg)

 

[BigRed91]

I've read the same things about taurine and the last time I did tren I really believe the taurine helped. I can really tell tren messes with my brain like I can't talk as good almost like I get tongue tied and I can't think of a certain word for things at times. But I've decided to lay off the tren for a while but I need to keep supplementing taurine for the other benefits.

 

[MFAAS]

NPP was my favorite compound for a couple years. After 3 years of blasting with it in every cycle I started to develop some annoying sides. #1 was sinus congestion!!! #2 was the first 2 times I used it NPP had no effects on libido and erections but that changed pretty quick. #3 was frigging anxiety and just a overall sense of uneasiness and horrible dreams.

I finally had to say goodbye to my beloved NPP

What doses were you running?

NPP makes me feel great. Libido goes up, mood goes up. I just feel all around better.

Did the sinus congestion shortly after you stopped or did that stick around?

 

[MFAAS]

I've read the same things about taurine and the last time I did tren I really believe the taurine helped. I can really tell tren messes with my brain like I can't talk as good almost like I get tongue tied and I can't think of a certain word for things at times. But I've decided to lay off the tren for a while but I need to keep supplementing taurine for the other benefits.

Yeah tren just made me more irritable and less resilient to stress, but overall none of the major issues a lot of others seem to have. I did take taurine though. 3g am 2g pm like i do with NPP.

 

[MFAAS]

You have to specific, what kind of side-effects?

Mental health?
Cardiac health?
Bloodpressure, cholesterol...?

For the most cases taurine is always g2g.
There are different kinds to be adressed, working with cialis, nebivolol and kinds of statins with megadosing Q10 and OPC are quite common if you're using higher doses (up to 2000mg)

I was just asking for literally anything anyone knows of that could help combat any if the deleterious effects if nandrolone (or tren). I don't think I need to be more specific as it kind of defeats the purpose of asking a general question.

All of the above except blood pressure as my blood pressure is better than a middle achool soccer player. That may be beneficial for other people though!

Just curious if anyone knows of any other protective agents that could help provide harm reduction on cycle. Like idk if NAC would help provide any mental/neuronal protection against either nand or tren.

I have taken red yeast rice extract (levostatin) to keep cholesterol down on cycle) along with ubiquinol. It's worked amazingly well. I have dialed in the dosage so basically my lipids don't even change at all on cycle vs on TRT/cruise. I naturally have low BP so not worried about that.

Cellular protective agents? Blood vessel protection? In vitro study showed nand to be mucu more damaging to blood vessel pining than test. Any supplements that could mitigate this damage? Maybe some peptide? Etc etc

Really just looking for any ideas anyone has. I doubt anything will be quite as protective as taurine, but idk. Maybe this would be a question better suited to absupplement based forum or something

 

[bigpoppachump2]

What doses were you running?

NPP makes me feel great. Libido goes up, mood goes up. I just feel all around better.

Did the sinus congestion shortly after you stopped or did that stick around?

I usually stuck to 300-400mg per week. This seems to be a recurring theme where my body tolerates a new compound really well and then every time it encounters it afterwards my bodies tolerance for it lessens with each cycle or just flat out says F-U drop that crap!

The same happened with tren, dbol, and mast.

 

[TrEnsgender]

I was just asking for literally anything anyone knows of that could help combat any if the deleterious effects if nandrolone (or tren). I don't think I need to be more specific as it kind of defeats the purpose of asking a general question.

All of the above except blood pressure as my blood pressure is better than a middle achool soccer player. That may be beneficial for other people though!

Just curious if anyone knows of any other protective agents that could help provide harm reduction on cycle. Like idk if NAC would help provide any mental/neuronal protection against either nand or tren.

I have taken red yeast rice extract (levostatin) to keep cholesterol down on cycle) along with ubiquinol. It's worked amazingly well. I have dialed in the dosage so basically my lipids don't even change at all on cycle vs on TRT/cruise. I naturally have low BP so not worried about that.

Cellular protective agents? Blood vessel protection? In vitro study showed nand to be mucu more damaging to blood vessel pining than test. Any supplements that could mitigate this damage? Maybe some peptide? Etc etc

Really just looking for any ideas anyone has. I doubt anything will be quite as protective as taurine, but idk. Maybe this would be a question better suited to absupplement based forum or something

Rovustatin is good in my opinion too 2x a week stacked with citrus bergamotte and high epa/dha Omega 3.

Heart highdose q10 around 500mg and few g tauring spread during the day.

For arterial health: nattokinase, OPC95

Prolactin: P5P + L Dopa or Cabergolin/pramipexol

Besides: Glutathion infusion is an allround talet, Tudca can be used too even if you don't have an oral its neuroprotectiv and good for overall health


Daily fasted cardio and a healthy diet should be a must for maintaining "very good" health.

 

[Bumpygooch]

Telmisartan(ARB BP med) mitigates cardio toxicity of nandrolone, is also just a great all around drug to take, I’ve added it to cialis and metformin in my daily rotation.

 

[MFAAS]

Telmisartan(ARB BP med) mitigates cardio toxicity of nandrolone, is also just a great all around drug to take, I’ve added it to cialis and metformin in my daily rotation.

Yeah I wouldn't be able to take that because my BP is already low. The highest my BP has ever been is 139/72, and that was during a blood sugar crisis after a fasted blood draw (holy shit that sucked, I had to take off work that morning). Under normal circumstances the highest number for systolic is 132/68 and for diastolic it is 128/81.

So if I were to add a BP med I expect I would be way too low. I appreciate the tip though, i'm sure others will find it helpful. Nattokinase may be a better option for me given its very small effect on Blood Pressure.

Rovustatin is good in my opinion too 2x a week stacked with citrus bergamotte and high epa/dha Omega 3.

Heart highdose q10 around 500mg and few g tauring spread during the day.

For arterial health: nattokinase, OPC95

Prolactin: P5P + L Dopa or Cabergolin/pramipexol

Besides: Glutathion infusion is an allround talet, Tudca can be used too even if you don't have an oral its neuroprotectiv and good for overall health


Daily fasted cardio and a healthy diet should be a must for maintaining "very good" health.

So I looked it up, and I was gonna ask if you could recommend a brand for Nattokinase. But it appears ConsumerLab has an article/test report for it already! (I fucking love ConsumerLab).

List of approved Nattokinase for anyone who wants a few recommendations:
- Arthur Andrew Medical Nattovéna™ (4,000 FU per capsule) - this was the lowest cost product and is considered high dosage per cap.
- Dr David Williams Nattokinase 1,000 FU per capsule.
- Enzymedica Natto-K (1,000 FU per capsule)
- KAL Nattokinase 100mg (2,000 FU per tablet)
- NOW Nattokinase 2,000 FU per capsule)

Plus there were a few more reviewed but I don't want to write them here (ConsumerLab doesn't allow you to copy and paste from their pages). If you want the full review you'll have to get a membership (memberships are cheap, like $35/year and WELL worth it)

 

[Snakum]

Not so much with the other 19 Nors, but in my experience with bad Tren sides, if you just double or even triple the dose you'll soon forget all about the bad side effects.

 

[Type-IIx]

@MFAAS rhGH for ameliorating AAS-induced spatial memory changes. Look into the work of Grönbladh on rhGH. He has studied its application in reversing some AAS induced effects on the GABA system in particular.

One reference is: Gronbladh, A., Johansson, J., Nostl, A., Nyberg, F., & Hallberg, M. (2012). GH improves spatial memory and reverses certain anabolic androgenic steroid-induced effects in intact rats. Journal of Endocrinology, 216(1), 31–41. doi:10.1530/joe-12-0315

FYI: Nandrolone is not likely to be particularly harmful, it is just considered a model compound, and frequently associated with AAS polypharmacy by researchers.

 

[MFAAS]

@MFAAS rhGH for ameliorating AAS-induced spatial memory changes. Look into the work of Grönbladh on rhGH. He has studied its application in reversing some AAS induced effects on the GABA system in particular.

One reference is: Gronbladh, A., Johansson, J., Nostl, A., Nyberg, F., & Hallberg, M. (2012). GH improves spatial memory and reverses certain anabolic androgenic steroid-induced effects in intact rats. Journal of Endocrinology, 216(1), 31–41. doi:10.1530/joe-12-0315

FYI: Nandrolone is not likely to be particularly harmful, it is just considered a model compound, and frequently associated with AAS polypharmacy by researchers.

Thanks for that reference! Very fascinating study.

I am curious as to whether hGH increases BDNF or NGF at all. I can't find a solid answer, but it seems like it does have some effect on it?

If so, that could potentially explain the pathway by which the deleterious cognitive effects of nandrolone (or steroids in general) are reduced. It also opens up the window to other substances being beneficial, such as Semax or Selank, both of which significantly increased BDNF. Or microdosing magic mushrooms every 3 days throughout the cycle (or LSD, as mushrooms tend to make me more lethargic than LSD). I think intranasal semax would be the best though. Or cerebrolysin for that matter.

OR, another option might be to do the sauna, Sauna is proven to increase BDNF and I believe as well as muscle growth after exercise. Just a thought.

 

[Theworm]

Telmisartan(ARB BP med) mitigates cardio toxicity of nandrolone, is also just a great all around drug to take, I’ve added it to cialis and metformin in my daily rotation.

Any evidence of this? Great if true!

 

[hometeam]

I take Taurine but sparingly. Unfortunately, 5g of Taurine is going to be pretty hard on your kidneys. Because most of it is going to end up being processed by the kidneys and peed out. Your body only wants as much as it can use. It rejects the rest.

 

[hometeam]

Rovustatin is good in my opinion too 2x a week stacked with citrus bergamotte and high epa/dha Omega 3.

Heart highdose q10 around 500mg and few g tauring spread during the day.

For arterial health: nattokinase, OPC95

Prolactin: P5P + L Dopa or Cabergolin/pramipexol

Besides: Glutathion infusion is an allround talet, Tudca can be used too even if you don't have an oral its neuroprotectiv and good for overall health


Daily fasted cardio and a healthy diet should be a must for maintaining "very good" health.

I use Tudca too but sparingly in long term use. It will hurt cholesterol values in the long term.

 

[Juicedhead]

Curious what mental sides happen with nandrolone? I just started NPP but I have noticed weird dreams and a kind of restlessness but I also upped my test, added dbol, and gh..