Western-BioTech - Pharma quality GH

[muscle96ss]

I have counted at least 24 pharmaceutical companies in China that produce HGH. There's probably more. It's expensive, but of course it's sold in bulk. If a Chinese company makes it you can be sure that they not only sell to the legitimate market but god knows to how many other suppliers over there in the underground market. How this market works over here? I haven't got a clue. your Chinese supplier (if your a source here) may send you powder that's right from the company or they may hit it first. Probably cost them somewhere between $5,000 to $15,000 a kilo on the black market, maybe less (I could find out).. So that's about $5 to $15 a gram uncut. What's the weight of that powder in that little vial? Looks like a little vial of coke used to look, I think maybe a lot Less than a gram (coke was pretty heavy. Lot of moisture). So your a source and you've got a kilo and you don't cut it. You put it into little vials. Or your suppliers send it to you in the original little boxes and bottles. So what's the big deal about? If you've got a good source and your getting good results and the blood test and all the others are coming back pretty good, then you've more than likely got more rHGh than anything else. If it's not so good then you've probably got more of something else than rHGH (or half and half, or whatever). It's that something else that I wonder about. So all this is about who has more and who has less. Your profit margins pretty high no matter what. The better your product, the more you sell.
Come to think about, You pour a gram of uncut coke on a mirror and mash it up, that's a pretty big pile. Probably equal to ten of the HGH vials.

Where did you get that figure of 24 companies? There are only a small amount of legitamate GH factorys in China and that number is nowhere near 24, more like single digits. Now there may be 24 that claim they produce it, just like the one that manufactured Karl's bunk Scitropin; but not 24 real ones.

 

[Dr JIM]

Now everyone may refer to the posted pics, and inspect the HPLC and ELISA reader which enable any USP standard test regarding GH,

I would be ashamed to keep showing my Dr' BS face here

PICS, what pics? I'm on my IPhone but that's not been problematic before !

 

[Mr.Bravo]

There just pic's of some garage lab. I have worked in cleaner M labs.

 

[Masters Power]

Dr Jim is not an Authority, he's a joke, and now the joke is on u. A member here claimed he works with analytic chemists. Pls bring one chemist to asses the tests, better - maybe Mands may ask his university expert to check my tests, and even much better - talk on skype with my professor

I am the member whose work brings him in contact with analytical chemists. As I've stated twice before the experts I know will not be involved in conversation involving production of any substance by a UG facility.

What I did offer and am offering again for the benefit of the board is for Karl to email me the name of his professor and I will have my experts verify his credentials and report them to the board without giving out his profs name. Will this be definitive proof of anything, no it won't but if Karl has a qualified professor working for him it would definitely lend credibility to his claim that he can produce pharma quality ph.

What Karl would likely not know, but his professor certainly would, is that if he takes me up on this offer and his professor has any sort of credentials my guys will give him credit as this group strongly practices professional courtesy.

How much so, right now I'm working on a letter with two of these professors regarding glaring errors in a research study paper which has been peer reviewed (neither believes it actually was) and is getting ready to be published. The research study was paid for by a foreign government and used their data. The speculation is the contract between the researchers and the government was worded in such a way that the government had the final say in the paper and the final conclusions don't match the data because the government desired a different result than what the data actually showed. Some of the errors in the paper included one chart that contained considerably less than the total subjects tested and another that showed more than the total number of subjects tested??? Another glaring error was a pie chart which added up to 120% as well as several more technical inaccuracies.

My professors speculate some of these errors may have been done intentionally by the authors because they were being forced to make inaccurate conclusions due to their contract with the government.

So why am I involved and WTF does any of this have to do with this thread. I'm involved because despite the glaring errors in this research, due to the nature of the profession neither of these professors is willing to call out the authors of the paper directly so the letter will ultimately be signed by myself or one of my associates.

What will my experts be able to determine about K's professor. A) Where and when he went to school and received his degrees. B) If he has been the author or co-author of any published research papers (one of the main reasons a good AC becomes a prof. instead of working in the more lucrative private sector is to participate in research projects) C) Where and when he has taught. They will only discuss his reputation if they have directly worked with him.

I think this would be useful information for the members here to have so I repeat the offer.

 

[muscle96ss]

I am the member whose work brings him in contact with analytical chemists. As I've stated twice before the experts I know will not be involved in conversation involving production of any substance by a UG facility.

What I did offer and am offering again for the benefit of the board is for Karl to email me the name of his professor and I will have my experts verify his credentials and report them to the board without giving out his profs name. Will this be definitive proof of anything, no it won't but if Karl has a qualified professor working for him it would definitely lend credibility to his claim that he can produce pharma quality ph.

What Karl would likely not know, but his professor certainly would, is that if he takes me up on this offer and his professor has any sort of credentials my guys will give him credit as this group strongly practices professional courtesy.

How much so, right now I'm working on a letter with two of these professors regarding glaring errors in a research study paper which has been peer reviewed (neither believes it actually was) and is getting ready to be published. The research study was paid for by a foreign government and used their data. The speculation is the contract between the researchers and the government was worded in such a way that the government had the final say in the paper and the final conclusions don't match the data because the government desired a different result than what the data actually showed. Some of the errors in the paper included one chart that contained considerably less than the total subjects tested and another that showed more than the total number of subjects tested??? Another glaring error was a pie chart which added up to 120% as well as several more technical inaccuracies.

My professors speculate some of these errors may have been done intentionally by the authors because they were being forced to make inaccurate conclusions due to their contract with the government.

So why am I involved and WTF does any of this have to do with this thread. I'm involved because despite the glaring errors in this research, due to the nature of the profession neither of these professors is willing to call out the authors of the paper directly so the letter will ultimately be signed by myself or one of my associates.

What will my experts be able to determine about K's professor. A) Where and when he went to school and received his degrees. B) If he has been the author or co-author of any published research papers (one of the main reasons a good AC becomes a prof. instead of working in the more lucrative private sector is to participate in research projects) C) Where and when he has taught. They will only discuss his reputation if they have directly worked with him.

I think this would be useful information for the members here to have so I repeat the offer.

Karl offered on several occasions to have Dr. Jim or anyone Skype with his professor and ask all the questions they desire. Why don't you take him up on this since nobody else has had the balls to yet(even though they claimn they are here seeking the truth)? I think this would be much more meaningful than just verifying a name!

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Karl offered on several occasions to have Dr. Jim or anyone Skype with his professor and ask all the questions they desire. Why don't you take him up on this since nobody else has had the balls to yet(even though they claimn they are here seeking the truth)? I think this would be much more meaningful than just verifying a name!

Let's not get too excited about this skype call happening just yet.. Karl also said earlier in this thread we was going to post pics of his "professor" standing next to a piece of equipment holding a sign... Still waiting on that one!!

 

[Mr.Bravo]

I am the member whose work brings him in contact with analytical chemists. As I've stated twice before the experts I know will not be involved in conversation involving production of any substance by a UG facility.

What I did offer and am offering again for the benefit of the board is for Karl to email me the name of his professor and I will have my experts verify his credentials and report them to the board without giving out his profs name. Will this be definitive proof of anything, no it won't but if Karl has a qualified professor working for him it would definitely lend credibility to his claim that he can produce pharma quality ph.

What Karl would likely not know, but his professor certainly would, is that if he takes me up on this offer and his professor has any sort of credentials my guys will give him credit as this group strongly practices professional courtesy.

How much so, right now I'm working on a letter with two of these professors regarding glaring errors in a research study paper which has been peer reviewed (neither believes it actually was) and is getting ready to be published. The research study was paid for by a foreign government and used their data. The speculation is the contract between the researchers and the government was worded in such a way that the government had the final say in the paper and the final conclusions don't match the data because the government desired a different result than what the data actually showed. Some of the errors in the paper included one chart that contained considerably less than the total subjects tested and another that showed more than the total number of subjects tested??? Another glaring error was a pie chart which added up to 120% as well as several more technical inaccuracies.

My professors speculate some of these errors may have been done intentionally by the authors because they were being forced to make inaccurate conclusions due to their contract with the government.

So why am I involved and WTF does any of this have to do with this thread. I'm involved because despite the glaring errors in this research, due to the nature of the profession neither of these professors is willing to call out the authors of the paper directly so the letter will ultimately be signed by myself or one of my associates.

What will my experts be able to determine about K's professor. A) Where and when he went to school and received his degrees. B) If he has been the author or co-author of any published research papers (one of the main reasons a good AC becomes a prof. instead of working in the more lucrative private sector is to participate in research projects) C) Where and when he has taught. They will only discuss his reputation if they have directly worked with him.

I think this would be useful information for the members here to have so I repeat the offer.

I think its a great idea just to have on record, on a side note who is in you avi Bruiser Brody?

 

[Dr JIM]

I'm confused, a mass spec test was ran right? Yes
Which gives you molecule weight, agreed

Was a test performed to show it was properly sequenced? NO! Because a peptide/proteins sequence is what is important, if the amino acids aren't in the correct order then its fold will be incorrect.

That's a very good point Z, bc depending upon where an AA substitution occurred within that GH 191Amino Acid polypeptide chain, the 3-D configuration can be altered such that it's no longer capable of BINDING to an appropriate RECEPTOR.

So it really don't matter what I, LS or CBS may have implied or said because the GH AA sequence must be correct and that REALITY does not change bc of someones OPINION.
It's simply am established FACT of medical/evidence based science.

Consequently the potential exists for a "hormone" with a MW of roughly 22kd and a "purity" of 95%, to be substituted for human GH, yet it would likely be as worthless as tits on a boar hog bc the AA sequence is incorrect!

This distinction is very important bc the AA sequence DOES define the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HUMAN GH and certain other MAMMALIAN GH species!

BUT it's irrelevant WHO SAID WHAT, WHEN, and WHY, bc the overwhelming majority of Meso members are NOT searching for a consensus among bro based opinions, but evidence based facts!

 

[Dr JIM]

There just pic's of some garage lab. I have worked in cleaner M labs.

Well considering another "purity claim" by Karl I honestly didn't expect much but more BULLSHIT!

 

[Western-Biotech]

I am the member whose work brings him in contact with analytical chemists. As I've stated twice before the experts I know will not be involved in conversation involving production of any substance by a UG facility.

What I did offer and am offering again for the benefit of the board is for Karl to email me the name of his professor and I will have my experts verify his credentials and report them to the board without giving out his profs name. Will this be definitive proof of anything, no it won't but if Karl has a qualified professor working for him it would definitely lend credibility to his claim that he can produce pharma quality ph.

What Karl would likely not know, but his professor certainly would, is that if he takes me up on this offer and his professor has any sort of credentials my guys will give him credit as this group strongly practices professional courtesy.

How much so, right now I'm working on a letter with two of these professors regarding glaring errors in a research study paper which has been peer reviewed (neither believes it actually was) and is getting ready to be published. The research study was paid for by a foreign government and used their data. The speculation is the contract between the researchers and the government was worded in such a way that the government had the final say in the paper and the final conclusions don't match the data because the government desired a different result than what the data actually showed. Some of the errors in the paper included one chart that contained considerably less than the total subjects tested and another that showed more than the total number of subjects tested??? Another glaring error was a pie chart which added up to 120% as well as several more technical inaccuracies.

My professors speculate some of these errors may have been done intentionally by the authors because they were being forced to make inaccurate conclusions due to their contract with the government.

So why am I involved and WTF does any of this have to do with this thread. I'm involved because despite the glaring errors in this research, due to the nature of the profession neither of these professors is willing to call out the authors of the paper directly so the letter will ultimately be signed by myself or one of my associates.

What will my experts be able to determine about K's professor. A) Where and when he went to school and received his degrees. B) If he has been the author or co-author of any published research papers (one of the main reasons a good AC becomes a prof. instead of working in the more lucrative private sector is to participate in research projects) C) Where and when he has taught. They will only discuss his reputation if they have directly worked with him.

I think this would be useful information for the members here to have so I repeat the offer.

I appreciate the productive offer.

1. The discussion shouldn't and won't involve any references to production of any substance. They may discuss the analytic methods to assay the chemical and biological traits of his product.

2. I feel that it's not safe to just mail you a name, I may also potentially just make up a name, and mail it to u.

Lets arrange a conevrsation about the analytic methods in use in our facility.

regarding pics - I took intentionally authentic pics of certain equipment in the lab, if you like me to pics from our brochure I will, I stick the sign of MESO for u guys so u know and realize, honesty is what I applied here, it's a shame you disrespect this.

This lab as Masterpower's expert will testify is making GH for R&D purposes for most renowned institutions in the world, and me and you are lucky they cooperate with us, so u do have pharma grade option for fraction the price.

They declare on 98+% purity but de facto they manufacture the highest purity HGH you'll find (above 99%), and it's proven again today, Masterspowers expert will confirm this as well.

No pharma GH reaches this purity BTW - so any doubts that we rebottle may actually be refuted here

 

[kawilt]

Where did you get that figure of 24 companies? There are only a small amount of legitamate GH factorys in China and that number is nowhere near 24, more like single digits. Now there may be 24 that claim they produce it, just like the one that manufactured Karl's bunk Scitropin; but not 24 real ones.

I'll try later to post a list of companies that either actually manufacture the HGH or handle and distribute the finished product. In the end it is really not relevant how many companies there are, my point being is that the original product is from a "legit company" and has worked it way down to the illegal suppliers. I don't believe for minute that Western-Biotech has their own manufacturing facility, but are obtaining it from a distributor.
I got a quick list last night from a list of companies that "handle" HGH powder. Not all of them manufacture it.

 

[ironwill1951]

why are you guys wasting your time with this guy ? he says he spent millions on a facility to manufacture hgh , no one with even a high school diploma would make such a stupid investment, just quit talking to the guy your just keeping him going , he is obviously full of bullshit.

 

[muscle96ss]

BUT it's irrelevant WHO SAID WHAT, WHEN, and WHY, bc the overwhelming majority of Meso members are NOT searching for a consensus among bro based opinions, but evidence based facts!

So you want facts doc, do you? The facts are clear, you have continued to refuse to post up what test(s) you want Karl to provide and even made a joke out of it requesting a CBC, CRP, etc.. You have refused Karl's offer to speak with his professor/chemist via Skype to have an intelligent discussion where he will answer any questions you may have. Those are the facts!! Why you continue to act like you want answers and the truth but then continue to be evasive and ignore the solutions that are right in front of your face suggests that you have an agenda or ulterior motives. Actions speak louder than words and you have talked a hell of a lot but when it comes down to action you disappear. Whats your real motivation here doc? Perhaps you are afraid of the truth. If your real motivation was to get rid of Karl and make him look stupid then you would have simply provided a list of tests or taken him up on his offer. If you are right then this thread ends, Karls is gone, and you are king of Meso; its that simple. Your lack of action suggests maybe you are not so confident in your position. How about less talk and more action!! Its up to you doc, we can continue to go in circles or we can get some answers; which do you really want?

 

[ufcguy32]

He did post the test. Protein sequence test. Karl said he would do it. We will see

 

[Zaphod]

He did post the test. Protein sequence test. Karl said he would do it. We will see

Yes, this is what's important. This should be part of the R/D when Karl was making his first batch. I think this is what Dr. Jim was referring to and was asking why this test wasnt posted because it should have been ran by his chemist. IMO you can't claim to have Pharma grade rHGH without it.

You have it mass spec'ed to make sure the overall molecule weight is correct and IF it is you have it sequenced to confirm you have "constructed" the molecule in the correct "order".

You can have 100% purity of a molecule that mass specs (weighs) the exact same as rHGH but may be incorrectly sequenced. Which I believe is why people have the side effect they do from generics.
(Having a molecule the same exact weight as HGH would be rare, but if you are building HGH and just put a few of the amino acids out of order it would still weigh the same)


I'm not saying he is or isn't manufacturing HGH, but he isn't making Pharma rHGH without testing its sequence. Which, as stated above, his chemist should have done already as part of the standard R/D and quality control process.

 

[ufcguy32]

Now that makes Sense. So how or why would u put them in a different sequence? Is it extremely hard to make sure of this? What your saying is you can't just assume u made it right , that it's got to be checked and verified? So u think Chinese are out of order in their sequence and this is why u get varying results and side effects. ...would these compounds still raise gh levels?

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

This lab as Masterpower's expert will testify is making GH for R&D purposes for most renowned institutions in the world, and me and you are lucky they cooperate with us, so u do have pharma grade option for fraction the price.

They declare on 98+% purity but de facto they manufacture the highest purity HGH you'll find (above 99%), and it's proven again today, Masterspowers expert will confirm this as well.

Well, well, well. How the story is changing and the truth is coming out. Now you're saying you have a "lab" that makes R&D GH for you, and that "you are lucky they (the "lab") cooperate with you."

In July, you made the following statements where you claimed ownership of the manufacturing facility:

"We own a western FDA standard facility for GH manufacturing."

"Millions of dollars, and I emphasize and repeat - MILLIONS - were invested in this venture."
​

The truth is finally coming out, Karl. It always does.

BUSTED!

No pharma GH reaches this purity BTW - so any doubts that we rebottle may actually be refuted here

No, you're not rebottling, you're reselling. IOW, you're a middle man and you lied about investing millions of dollars to build a facility that manufactures GH.

The facts are clear, you have continued to refuse to post up what test(s) you want Karl to provide and even made a joke out of it requesting a CBC, CRP, etc..

Dude! It's gone way beyond which tests are needed. That's irrelevant now. Karl just admitted to "buying" R&D grade GH from a lab that manufactures it.

You have refused Karl's offer to speak with his professor/chemist via Skype to have an intelligent discussion where he will answer any questions you may have.

Again, totally irrelevant. This chemist is an employee of the lab from which K is purchasing his R&D grade GH. That is why he K can't ask him to post here or on any other bodybuilding forum. He has no idea K is reselling their R&D research grade GH for human consumption. End of story.

He did post the test. Protein sequence test. Karl said he would do it. We will see

Even though these tests are now irrelevant, K conducting *new* tests would be meaningless. There's nothing to stop him from testing Humatrope or some other pharm grade GH. He would have had to post his *previous* tests which he was UNABLE to do because he never did them. He didn't do them because he didn't make the GH.

 

[Zaphod]

Now that makes Sense. So how or why would u put them in a different sequence? Is it extremely hard to make sure of this? What your saying is you can't just assume u made it right , that it's got to be checked and verified? So u think Chinese are out of order in their sequence and this is why u get varying results and side effects. ...would these compounds still raise gh levels?

Well when you are working with something as tiny and delicate as amino acids putting 191 of them in the exact order is difficult.

Which is why they use recombinant DNA methods to produce it in large quantities. (Basicly they put the gene that codes HGH into a bacterial vector) hence rHGH "recombinant Human Growth Hormone".

Which could also explain the red lump at the injection site issue, if the bacterial residue isn't filter out properly or if the hgh's sequence is too far off then the body will see it as foreign and the immune response will take over.

Dr. Jim's post about a page back explains why the sequence is so important and the fact that it can change the way it is expressed in the body. But yes I think it could still raise IGF levels but also cause undesirable or unbeknownst effects.

I think the Chinese are probably try to synthesis HGH chemically because its cheaper but HGH is so complex it pretty much has to be done recombinantly to get it correct.

 

[Western-Biotech]

CSB - I own the lab, the technology, and the engineered bacteria. My team was (part still) is engaged in R&D in the biotechnology industry.

Part of the equipment like QA devices are brought with the team, some equipment is new, like u may see in the pics, in some of the steps of production we may rely on out sourcing

the professor I work with is a renowned expert in this filed, and I like an expert from your behalf to talk to him.

Not sure if I should really give a damn about your repeated nonsense posts, but I do, so if you have any more questions, or like me to conduct any other tests for you, or prove by any other means my statements tell me

 

[Western-Biotech]

The AA seq' was checked by Mands, I'll post soon this relevant test as well

Now stop posting baseless fiction, it's an insult to your intelligent, the final QA measure in our production in a biological assay test, which was defined in USP on 2006, and confirms the prolifilation effect of the molecule on living human cells, this confirms it's GH molecule with full clinical effect, and more then this - it's asses it's potency - which again is actually superior to parallel pharma product