What is possible? For normal folks, I mean?

[malfeasance]

Sure, everybody is different. Nobody is Ronnie Coleman, Big Ramy, or Dexter Jackson, except those three men.

I hear it said frequently, however, that genetics play a big role. So let's assume no Ronnie Coleman genetics, just your average guy. He hires a great coach for training, nutrition, and hormones (assume it is a coach who has brought more than one bodybuilder to pro status in open class). Assume this Mr. Normie Average trains hard, dutifully eats whatever he is told to eat, and injects whatever he is told to inject.

What is possible for him, since he does not have outstanding genetics for bodybuilding?

Are some folks just going to suck at bodybuilding based on poor genes?

The depth of the gene pool in bodybuilding in the 70s could not have been much - bodybuilding was such a fringe thing back then that few did it. How good could the genetics have been of the guys who were competing? Genetics play a role when many, many more persons compete, and then the few rare cases are going to be there simply because having so much genetic variation, due to large numbers competing, means a larger chance of having some genetic outliers with more favorable genes.

Are there some guys who just do not have the genes to win say an entry level NPC show in the open class? Or no? What do you say, and, more importantly, why do you say it?

Is it even possible to know one's genetic potential without dropping the hammer hard on calories and gear usage for a few years?

 

[jJjburton]

Sure, everybody is different. Nobody is Ronnie Coleman, Big Ramy, or Dexter Jackson, except those three men.

I hear it said frequently, however, that genetics play a big role. So let's assume no Ronnie Coleman genetics, just your average guy. He hires a great coach for training, nutrition, and hormones (assume it is a coach who has brought more than one bodybuilder to pro status in open class). Assume this Mr. Normie Average trains hard, dutifully eats whatever he is told to eat, and injects whatever he is told to inject.

What is possible for him, since he does not have outstanding genetics for bodybuilding?

Are some folks just going to suck at bodybuilding based on poor genes?

The depth of the gene pool in bodybuilding in the 70s could not have been much - bodybuilding was such a fringe thing back then that few did it. How good could the genetics have been of the guys who were competing? Genetics play a role when many, many more persons compete, and then the few rare cases are going to be there simply because having so much genetic variation, due to large numbers competing, means a larger chance of having some genetic outliers with more favorable genes.

Are there some guys who just do not have the genes to win say an entry level NPC show in the open class? Or no? What do you say, and, more importantly, why do you say it?

Is it even possible to know one's genetic potential without dropping the hammer hard on calories and gear usage for a few years?

Going to say that whoever has been consistent and doing a 24/7 nutrition based on goals will look the best, and if this person has good genetics they win

without injuries.

So the person who started at 16 using the same diet protocol until 30 years old will end up the biggest. If training and diet is good.

Meaning rice and chicken every meal for 15 years. To a point. Or the person from 20 started and went to 40 exercising everyday with no injuries eating exactly how one should to be big.

so in my eyes it comes down to being consistancy, which is the hardest aspect of bodybuilding.

Edit- also its relative to a persons desire and will, because if you have the best genetics in the world but no interest in bodybuilding, and just play video games, well you wont be huge.

so anybody who says its “genetics” i think its bullshit, to a point. Those huge guys only cared about one thing, getting huge. They will die to be big.

Edit 2- if “mr. average normie” did what you said, hes going to be a big mofo. He will win some competitions, but only if he does that for 5-10 years.

 

[BigRed91]

I believe it's like everything else. You have people like LeBron and Michael Jordan, etc. That are naturally talented and I'm sure they worked very hard too. But for every other average player to get to that level would have to work much much harder bc they are as naturally gifted. Same goes for bodybuilding if u aren't naturally gifted to gain and get shredded you will have to work much harder than others.

My friend has great genetics and is fairly big and fairly lean all the time. He does shitty workouts maybe 3 times a week and still looks great. While I am quite bigger than him and still as lean I work much harder than him 6 or 7 days a week and he wonders why I'm bigger.

 

[bob357sig]

Two examples of guys with less than perfect genetics, but who were successful are Rich Gaspari and Branch Warren. They may have not won the Olympia but both won the Arnold classic. I would say that is pretty damn good. They both have in common a huge desire to achieve and both were known to be insane trainers in the gym. Their determination made up for “less then perfect” genetics. Some guys had great genetics but really got nowhere- remember Matt Mendenhal. Great genetics but lacked that insane drive.

 

[Brandaddy]

As far as overall size. Unfortunately that is more or less predetermined. Your body will only synthesize so much new muscle tissue and the daily amount can vary from person to person. I remember seeing a study where natural men synthesized roughly 4-10 grams of protein a day. Which would explain why even naturally some people grow like weeds and other don't grow to save their lives. Also, the more muscle you put on, the higher your MPS requirements are to put on more. Also, people respond to AAS differently. Some need less to get more. With those things taken into consideration, I would say to be able to put on the size and have the shape to be a legit pro bodybuilder it is mainly genetics. Theoretically if you just kept pushing the gear higher and higher even with shitty genetics you could still get huge. I would just be concerned about long term health effects if you start basically perma-blasting large amounts to make up for shit genetics. Lol

The good thing is regardless of your limit. Anyone can get more jacked than they already are. Lol.

 

[jJjburton]

As far as overall size. Unfortunately that is more or less predetermined. Your body will only synthesize so much new muscle tissue and the daily amount can vary from person to person. I remember seeing a study where natural men synthesized roughly 4-10 grams of protein a day. Which would explain why even naturally some people grow like weeds and other don't grow to save their lives. Also, the more muscle you put on, the higher your MPS requirements are to put on more. Also, people respond to AAS differently. Some need less to get more. With those things taken into consideration, I would say to be able to put on the size and have the shape to be a legit pro bodybuilder it is mainly genetics. Theoretically if you just kept pushing the gear higher and higher even with shitty genetics you could still get huge. I would just be concerned about long term health effects if you start basically perma-blasting large amounts to make up for shit genetics. Lol

The good thing is regardless of your limit. Anyone can get more jacked than they already are. Lol.

Olympias do permablast...

 

[Demondosage]

Old training partner of mine had the worst genetics ever for bodybuilding. He was abt 6'2, 140 lbs when starting, long and lanky limbs. This dude got to 215 lbs natural, he just ate a lot and trained his tail off. I have personally seen the worst genetics do great things. Fuck genetics!!! Now, in terms of pro quality I'm sure genetics play a huge role. But in terms of impressive build, nah

 

[Nemesis RR]

Also what are you willing to put your body through. Ive paid the price with major surgeries. If your hip is hurting do you skip leg day? Do you back off a week and just let it rest? Or do you say it will be fine once I warm it up? For reference I can not even come close to what I once did natural now on a low dose cycle. My joints won't allow it.

 

[Test_Subject]

Genetics have a lot to do with it —you can’t change your muscle insertions no matter how hard you train, for example — but I feel like that really only matters at the highest levels of the sport. Nobody on the street is going to call you out on your high lat insertions.

A guy who has dogshit genetics can still get more jacked than 95% of the population if they train right and eat well.

I feel like “bad genetics” is an excuse that people use for training like a pussy and eating garbage, or to excuse ridiculous drug abuse.

 

[malfeasance]

Old training partner of mine had the worst genetics ever for bodybuilding. He was abt 6'2, 140 lbs when starting, long and lanky limbs. This dude got to 215 lbs natural, he just ate a lot and trained his tail off. I have personally seen the worst genetics do great things. Fuck genetics!!! Now, in terms of pro quality I'm sure genetics play a huge role. But in terms of impressive build, nah

So you are of the opinion that anybody can win the open class at a statewide entry level NPC show if they just train hard enough and eat well enough (and use gear, but, duh, everybody does gear)?

Usually the winner has pretty big legs, for instance, quads and hamstrings. Can anybody build those type of legs, not men's physique, not classic physique, but open, with intense training and food?

There are not many contests yet this year, so I grabbed a pic of the winner of the open class (overall) from the only entry level NPC contest available for 2021.

Those are not Big Ramy's legs, but let's face it, very few of us have built legs like the entry level winner below.

Can any Joe Blow steroid user in the gym build those legs over a few years just through gutting out hard leg workouts and eating?

 

[malfeasance]

I have been concentrating on legs for years now. I have made improvements even since my last show, but I am just going to be honest here and say my legs look nothing like that. Neither do my arms, or anything else, LOL!

I am 6' tall and 243 (off season) and get stares everywhere I go unless I am wearing a coat, but I still do not look anywhere close to what it takes to win open class at an entry level show (picture above is what it takes).

This thread is written for me . . . LOL!

 

[jJjburton]

I have been concentrating on legs for years now. I have made improvements even since my last show, but I am just going to be honest here and say my legs look nothing like that. Neither do my arms, or anything else, LOL!

I am 6' tall and 243 (off season) and get stares everywhere I go unless I am wearing a coat, but I still do not look anywhere close to what it takes to win open class at an entry level show (picture above is what it takes).

This thread is written for me . . . LOL!

Didnt you just start though?

when did you first cycle how many years ago?

 

[malfeasance]

Two examples of guys with less than perfect genetics, but who were successful are Rich Gaspari and Branch Warren. They may have not won the Olympia but both won the Arnold classic. I would say that is pretty damn good. They both have in common a huge desire to achieve and both were known to be insane trainers in the gym. Their determination made up for “less then perfect” genetics. Some guys had great genetics but really got nowhere- remember Matt Mendenhal. Great genetics but lacked that insane drive.

I get what you are trying to say. Branch Warren and Rich Gaspari were not Lee Haney or Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman. But I submit that those two had genetics more suitable to bodybuilding than 99% of the folks reading this thread.

 

[malfeasance]

Genetics have a lot to do with it —you can’t change your muscle insertions no matter how hard you train, for example — but I feel like that really only matters at the highest levels of the sport. Nobody on the street is going to call you out on your high lat insertions.

A guy who has dogshit genetics can still get more jacked than 95% of the population if they train right and eat well.

I feel like “bad genetics” is an excuse that people use for training like a pussy and eating garbage, or to excuse ridiculous drug abuse.

Well, I don't engage in ridiculous drug abuse, and I do not train like a pussy, LOL! I have been at this for a while, and I still do not look like Jeremiah Willies, the winner above.

And that is the winner of the lowest rung of the sport!

 

[malfeasance]

Just comparing myself to the rest of the heavyweights in that same contest, I would not have come in last, but I would not have placed in a respectable placing and would have stood absolutely 0% chance of winning.

The main issue is SIZE.

That is the reason for this thread.

 

[bob357sig]

Wondering how old the guy in that pic is, I highly doubt he is older than 30. You are 53? What about the “masters division” competition’s? At least level the playing field for yourself. Just trying to maby give you some ideas.

 

[malfeasance]

Wondering how old the guy in that pic is, I highly doubt he is older than 30. You are 53? What about the “masters division” competition’s? At least level the playing field for yourself. Just trying to maby give you some ideas.

Judging by the pictures of the state level type contests around here in recent years, it would take somebody new and outstanding showing up for me not to win the over 50 category, but it is just not the same to me as the open category . . . I hear you, though. I'm old, LOL!

 

[malfeasance]

Didnt you just start though?

when did you first cycle how many years ago?

First cycle was probably a decade ago. Lots of time off in that decade. TRT at a minimum, though, for several years now, with cycles at least once or twice a year. First competition was 2020. I was going to compete in 2019 but injured myself in prep.

 

[Bumpygooch]

I think genetics play the largest role, and I mean that in an overarching way. Not just for size, but, recovery, reaction to anabolic, diet etc. I’ll give a personal anecdote. I played baseball in high school and college(pitcher). While I was able to crank it up over 90, my arm would be shot for days following. Couldn’t barely lift it. You see the MLB level guys chucking 100 and coming out the next 2 days doing the same. That’s genetics. While some of us may be able to achieve that size, we may be more prone to injury or stop reacting to anabolics at absurd dosages or more prone to side effects and have to shut it down. Again.....all genetics.

 

[Demondosage]

So you are of the opinion that anybody can win the open class at a statewide entry level NPC show if they just train hard enough and eat well enough (and use gear, but, duh, everybody does gear)?

Usually the winner has pretty big legs, for instance, quads and hamstrings. Can anybody build those type of legs, not men's physique, not classic physique, but open, with intense training and food?

There are not many contests yet this year, so I grabbed a pic of the winner of the open class (overall) from the only entry level NPC contest available for 2021.

Those are not Big Ramy's legs, but let's face it, very few of us have built legs like the entry level winner below.

Can any Joe Blow steroid user in the gym build those legs over a few years just through gutting out hard leg workouts and eating?

No, I didn't say that any old Joe can even win a local show. I was just speaking on terms of being muscular and impressive despite bad genetics. Nope, not everyone can win a local competition, no matter what they use...yes, due to genetics