What is possible? For normal folks, I mean?

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The Truth About Bodybuilding Genetics | T Nation​

Genetics do matter. But how much?

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Eh... Let me play Devil's Advocate here:

Look at the full text of the studies they are citing... (link to the Big Study that forms the basis of these articles at the bottom) they all have the same bullshit problems present in virtually every phys-ex study: lack of confounder control.

The studies used the same programming in the gym (1RM measurement with untrained subjects ROFL!) but didn't track diet aside from admonishing the subjects to stay on their "normal diet" and do self reporting if they deviated (BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!).

Further, tracking muscle cross-sectional growth without dietary and rest control is risible.

No rest cycle surveillance and no dietary surveillance plus a nonsense 1RM measurement model for the untrained (Novice's don't have true 1RMs) = useless fucking "data" from which are drawn useless fucking results.

These sorts of wildly bad "studies" are the subject of the annual/semi-annual review of study literature by the folks over at Starting Strength. Virtually all physical training/exercise studies are performed by people with ZERO understanding of training.

Full Text of the Hubal "study" as an example of the problem. Total waste of a decent sample size via nonsensical study design. It is shit and it proves nothing either way (other than the "revolutionary" re-discovery of the novice effect).

The other studies have similar holes or worse.

 

[malfeasance]

Absolutely takes good genetics to even look like that on amateur level. 90% of men wouldn't look like that no matter how they ate, trained, or what gear they ran. It's reality.

So, DAMMIT, only the top 10% . . . that is very discouraging . . . LOL! I appreciate you taking the time to answer, even if I don't like your answer.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

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The 3 post zoom in on his face has me laughing my ass off right now. Not sure why i'm finding it so funny, maybe we have a carbon monoxide leak in the house.

 

[malfeasance]

The genetics question, I thought, had been put to rest years ago, because of increasing knowledge in regard to the science of genetics as the years have gone on. It's now become a tired old argument. To say that genetics in BB terms is "bullshit" and a non-factor is both wishful thinking and delusional. It's not worth the argument anymore. This article does a good job explaining the science behind genetics as it relates to BB. Of course, these days we live in an anti-science environment, which might explain the ignorance. Ho-hum, here we go again:

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RomanMVP, thanks for sharing the article. Those studies, however, are on natties who are just starting training, and all of them may not have been equally motivated to push for progressing from workout to workout. The anecdotal examples, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Arnold, (A) who knows how much BS is involved in what they did or did not do in the early days, and (B) those are Mr. Olympias, the top guy in the entire world. I am asking about winning an entry level contest in the amateur NPC, like the Mr._______ [insert your state here].

I did enjoy the article, and I actually believe what it says, but I am not sure any of what it recites answers the question of who can and cannot look like a bodybuilder.

I liked the section, "DOn't Panic, Chicken Legs, You're Not Doomed!" the best.

LOL!

 

[MisterSuperGod]

Is that true????

If it is, i can't find an article about it. He did get arrested, but it was for domestic violence against his wife.

The mother claims that the boy was never given steroids.

 

[RomanMVP]

RomanMVP, thanks for sharing the article. Those studies, however, are on natties who are just starting training, and all of them may not have been equally motivated to push for progressing from workout to workout. The anecdotal examples, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Arnold, (A) who knows how much BS is involved in what they did or did not do in the early days, and (B) those are Mr. Olympias, the top guy in the entire world. I am asking about winning an entry level contest in the amateur NPC, like the Mr._______ [insert your state here].

I did enjoy the article, and I actually believe what it says, but I am not sure any of what it recites answers the question of who can and cannot look like a bodybuilder.

I liked the section, "DOn't Panic, Chicken Legs, You're Not Doomed!" the best.

LOL!

My point however, was when I hear people dismiss genetics as critical, I have to laugh. Some people on here are basically saying genetics takes a back seat to training and diet. Since I'm assuming everyone on here uses AAS, and is NOT a natty, I find it impossible to believe the reason these guys don't remotely look anything like (take your pick of famous BB names) it's because they are lazy, don't train as hard, and eat like shit compared to (take your pick of famous BB names). Nope. Sorry. If you don't have the starting material to be with, you ain't going to the Olympia, etc. Genetics will always be THE limiting factor. Look at all the kids who play and practice as hard as anyone in a given sport, FB, BB, BaseB. 99% of them will never make it to the NBA, MLB, or NFL. They don't have the starting genetic material. This all follows that stupid myth Americans like to tell their kids, "You can be anything you want to be." Bullshit. Most people don't have what it takes to be a first class astrophysicist, a world class neurosurgeon, the next Muhammad Ali, or a future Mr. O. Dedication, effort, and lifestyle adherence all take a back seat to what one is born with. Yes, a guy can build a physique better than the majority of the population with training, strict diet, etc., but his ultimate limiting factor in how far he goes will always be the genetics he was stuck with. As Arnold said years ago, he was successfull in BB because he CHOSE THE RIGHT PARENTS.

 

[grey]

Yes, a guy can build a physique better than the majority of the population with training, strict diet, etc., but his ultimate limiting factor in how far he goes will always be the genetics he was stuck with. As Arnold said years ago, he was successfull in BB because he CHOSE THE RIGHT PARENTS.

I don't disagree at all... being 85% as genetically gifted as a Mr. Olympia essentially means you will never be even regionally competitive I think but I also means you can look pretty fucking huge. Just not huge enough, proportional enough, or ripped enough to be on the Big Stages of the BB world.

Being 65% as gifted you can still look pretty great.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Genetics have to play a big part.
My training partner is a natural.
Hes a fucking genetic freak.
Even with my gear usage, he goes fucking toe to toe with me on strength work.
He still have my beat in sqauts.

We have been training every day together for 2 years now.
I add more BB volume than him, so I look much better, I look bigger...
(Dude will sit down and eat an entire cake on a weekend... so yeah.)

But hes just fucking stronger than me.... (Despite me working out MORE than him... AND running gear.)
There is such a fucking thing as elite level genetics... I thought the same... well, it cant be that different... we just arent working hard enough...
We need to eat better, train harder and we can all be amazing... nope

This kid can keep his 1RM the same... while doing a 20lb cut.

He skips the occasional gym day... I dont.
He doesnt watch macros.. i do.

Yet hes still out squatting me... because hes like a fucking Mongolian Warlord who's descendant of fucking Ghengis Khan or some shit.

Okay.... rant over... I got pretty mad there.

The 3 post zoom in on his face has me laughing my ass off right now. Not sure why i'm finding it so funny, maybe we have a carbon monoxide leak in the house.

Lol same.
I sat here giggling in my truck for longer than I'd like to admit

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

Genetics have to play a big part.
My training partner is a natural.
Hes a fucking genetic freak.
Even with my gear usage, he goes fucking toe to toe with me on strength work.
He still have my beat in sqauts.

We have been training every day together for 2 years now.
I add more BB volume than him, so I look much better, I look bigger...
(Dude will sit down and eat an entire cake on a weekend... so yeah.)

But hes just fucking stronger than me.... (Despite me working out MORE than him... AND running gear.)
There is such a fucking thing as elite level genetics... I thought the same... well, it cant be that different... we just arent working hard enough...
We need to eat better, train harder and we can all be amazing... nope

This kid can keep his 1RM the same... while doing a 20lb cut.

He skips the occasional gym day... I dont.
He doesnt watch macros.. i do.

Yet hes still out squatting me... because hes like a fucking Mongolian Warlord who's descendant of fucking Ghengis Khan or some shit.

Okay.... rant over... I got pretty mad there.



Lol same.
I sat here giggling in my truck for longer than I'd like to admit

@MisterSuperGod you find it funny because it’s funny, ahaha cmon look at his face.... we re all speaking about working harder better faster stronger , stabbing ourselves during wo because more pain more gainz, injecting wasabi before our cycle for the same reason and then you see a fuckin KID with red cheecks which looks like 14 yo already having a Mr Olympia worth body... FUFW!!! (Fuck U Flex Wheeler) from today on I ll start every fuckin workout set screaming that























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[RomanMVP]

I don't disagree at all... being 85% as genetically gifted as a Mr. Olympia essentially means you will never be even regionally competitive I think but I also means you can look pretty fucking huge. Just not huge enough, proportional enough, or ripped enough to be on the Big Stages of the BB world.

Being 65% as gifted you can still look pretty great.

Fuckin' A , Bubba, 100% agree. I competed from 79' thru 89', did quite well at the state level, however, no matter the blood sweat and tears I put into it, that's as far as I could go. Which I was fine with. But as Mike Mentzer said BEFORE the 80' Olympia he would never put himself thru that hell ever again, he even thought a couple times during his contest prep he was on the verge of death. I finally retired from comp because I didn't want to put myself thru that shit anymore. Chicken breast, tuna, rice, greens, repeat. BLAH just at the thought anymore LOL!! But I did have some fun at it. Especially when I beat large, pasty ass cry babies.

 

[may2021]

I have been concentrating on legs for years now. I have made improvements even since my last show, but I am just going to be honest here and say my legs look nothing like that. Neither do my arms, or anything else, LOL!

I am 6' tall and 243 (off season) and get stares everywhere I go unless I am wearing a coat, but I still do not look anywhere close to what it takes to win open class at an entry level show (picture above is what it takes).

This thread is written for me . . . LOL!

Your honesty is impressive.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Olympias do permablast...

How many Olympian’s do you know

Genetics should hardly be a consideration until youve ground out years of hard training and competent dieting. For most people genetics ARE NOT what’s holding them back. It’s their own weakness and need for instant gratification. If you’ve been at this for years and continually assessed your intensity, your dieting (bulk and cut) schemes, tried new training methods, experimented with new foods, and aimed to maximize recovery inside of your own minimum effective and maximum recoverable ranges then genetics might be a relevant question.

If you want to be massive/shredded/at a high level on stage then genetics become a deciding factor. But the guys mentioned in this thread; branch, rich, etc, are separated from ONLY their peers by genetics (and in different avenues). I would argue each of those guys only had a single bit of poor genetics covered by good genetics and an insane worth ethic and obsession elsewhere. Genetics aren’t just the obvious; building muscle, muscle shape and insertions, frame, etc. Genetics also cover your resistance/resiliency from the sides of anabolics that allow you to do this for an extended period.

I find people are best served by not assuming genetics got pros where they are because the reality is their work ethic is so far above the average “I’m gonna be a pro” kid in the gym it isn’t even comical.

the most relevant time to asses genetics, IMO, is if you find yourself sacrificing health in an acute manner. If you cannot do this long term without severe impacts to transient markers in bloodwork this may not be the hobby for you.

edit: wanted to add that your “natty” potential should not be confused with your absolute ceiling. Good natty response to training doesn’t always mean good response to drugs. Just a note.

 

[malfeasance]

Your honesty is impressive.

LOL! Well, it isn't hard to look at my stage pics and that guy's stage pics and realize I would not have been handed the trophy had he showed up at my last show.

 

[Regular Joe]

Well, I don't engage in ridiculous drug abuse, and I do not train like a pussy, LOL! I have been at this for a while, and I still do not look like Jeremiah Willies, the winner above.

And that is the winner of the lowest rung of the sport!

Isn't being able to tolerate ridiculous drug abuse part of the genetics most need to achieve a high level? The guy you are showing at the lowest level may be running grams all the time.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Genetics in reality is how resistant you are to the side effects of hormones. To get pro size you should blast grams for years GH.
1st year 2nd year maybe they are side effect free but then it comes the 3rd year and you start getting more severe side effects, more noticeable.

Muscle insertions matter later when you have passed this stage.
Then is the dedication the work ethic can you do this lifestyle 24/7 year-round?. Consistency and genetics are what a pro made of.

Is also a very big problem bad gear. Many guys they're taking underdosed gear bunk stuff, dirty stuff who gets you all kind of side effects.
Bad gear who get you swollen where you pin and you have a pip and you always desperate to find another muscle to pin.
Most guys out there in real life are taking that kind of gear so great physiques go to garbage.