What is wrong with daily low dose HCG with TRT?

[Jq88]

LW64,

Thank you!

You are so correct about not needing high TT numbers due to my shbg... And I think I've overlooked this crucial point.

I've been taking too much T.

I remember on pellets a few years back TT came back mid 300's and I couldn't believe it. I felt strong.

I'm gonna follow this exact protocol you outline.

Saw doc yesterday he re-introduced testopel option... "Set it and forget it."

Do you have any experience or knowledge with testopel? The pellets inserted every four months? Apparently it most closely mimics body natural production... But tough to make any kind of adjustments.

 

[Jq88]

Feel hopeful my brotha... That protocol you outline sounds right and feels correct.

 

[LW64]

I've never been on pellets because, with patience, everything else works so well.

Stop everything you're doing for 5 to 7 days before starting the protocol I suggested.

 

[Jq88]

I'm excited.

Last question before I start and get retested in five weeks...

What is your suggestion for T injections?

SC or IM? Does it matter?

Insulin syringe into delt/quad or
Larger needle into glute?

Thanks LW64!

 

[LW64]

There's no need to change from whatever method you've been using.

You're welcome.

 

[foreveryoung]

Forever young,

Do you use an AI?

What's your trt protocol?

It's frustrating how it's so day to day.

Not sure how much of it has to do with e2. I have a difficult time gauging it.

Labs come back ok but I know it fluctuates day to day.

I've experimented a lot over the years with AI and when you can get it to work it can be helpful, but it is more likely to cause problems that take a week to fix and leave you in a ridiculous yoyo ride . I much prefer not to use any AI anymore.

Same goes for hcg, not enough benefits at all from it for me to want to use it at all anymore, I've done a ton of experiments with Hcg over the decades too... it's just not worth the trouble. I inject test every 3 days as my main thing and with dosage moderate dint really see much shrinkage and my orgasm quality is strong. Unfortunate for me I don't feel enough of a libido response from just test so tend to mix in stronger androgens trying to fix that problem but am not at a point of perfection yet, I think my tired endocrine system might be a little burned out so that normal testosterone levels is not the only issue I have with libido.

 

[MR10X]

Im 68 and the only way i can get a good libido is with a level over 1000.When my level is in the normal range when im not on a cycle which is usually about 500 i dont have a good libido......I need to be at the top of the TT level range to feel right.

 

[LW64]

Daily HCG isn't a good idea, especially for someone who has trouble controlling their E2.

10X, what are your Free T levels when your Total T is 1,000?

 

[MR10X]

On 120 mg of Test E weekly my labs were,with no AI : Labs done 3 days after injection
TT 1580 HIGH (348-1197)
FT 26.7 HIGH (6.8-18.1)
E2 17.2 normal

My levels not on anything
TT443
FT8.1

4 months later
TT 493
FT4.7
LH 16.1

I asked my Endo about normal TT and low FT and he said as you get older the ratio changes......

 

[LW64]

I asked my Endo about normal TT and low FT and he said as you get older the ratio changes......

Usually because (among other things) SHBG goes up. Do you know yours?

 

[MR10X]

I never had SHBG checked,my guess is its higher and thats why i need a higher TT level.

 

[LW64]

I never had SHBG checked,my guess is its higher and thats why i need a higher TT level.

Yup; I'd say it's close to 70.

Just a bit less T per week and you might feel the same without being supra.

Any issues with hematocrit, cholesterol, PSA, blood pressure, etc?

 

[MR10X]

Blood pressure is very good for my age.Had a complete heart check up and no problems at all, and no enlarged heart.Had prostrate cancer PSA was 11.4,but treated for that and now PSA is 0.40.Only med im on is thyroid for hypothyroidism.All my other labs are with in range.I used AAS a lot when i was younger in my 30's and did a few cycles a couple years ago.The only side effect i had with my test at 1580 was oily skin and good libido.The test i was using was UGL and i thought it would be in range at that dose,but it looks like mine was overdosed a little bit

 

[MR10X]

Never had bloodwork done while on cycle but eveythimg goes back to normal after i get off everything....I usually limit my cycles to 8 weeks,i did do one that was 12 weeks a couple years ago..that cycle was 600mg Test e,600mg EQ,and 400mg Tren A a week.needless to say my libido was off the chart.....

 

[LW64]

Not surprised. If you dont feel good on those doses, then someone needs to check your pulse!

The issues with doing that (and at least you recognize you're doing cycles!) as I'm sure you're aware is that when you come off high T levels...watch out! NO LIBIDO AND/OR (even worse!) ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION. Guaranteed.

 

[MR10X]

I started using AAS in the 80's and we never did PCT because we didnt know any better. I dont remember ever having any issues then. Im not TRT and never was,my natural levels always came back.I had issues after Androgen depravation Therapy when i was treated for prostrate cancer,my system didnt want to recover from that. My TT level at one time after treatments was 32......I did a couple of PCT cycles with Clomid and Nolvadex and that go me up to 132. SO i did a 3 month cycle with the 120 mg Test E just to get some test in my system.it had been over a year with no test in my system and i was feeling horrible,low test symptoms to the max. After i quit taking the 120 mg test and retested my normal levels were up to 495...And have stayed in that range for a while now.No doubt if i did TRT i would need my levels be in the upper range to feel right,495 now isnt cutting it......

 

[LW64]

Did you have any formal diagnosis done regarding your HPTA after recovering from prostate cancer? A Total T of 495 is NOT normal when your SHBG is as high as yours appears to be.

 

[MR10X]

Doctors wont do anything about it because i had Prostrate cancer,i took on myself to recover.My Oncologist doesn't have a problem with me having a normal level,but my Urologist who treated me for the cancer didn't even want me to have a normal level.......In fact he wanted to stay on Androgen Deprovation Thearpy because he belives Testosterone might feed any cancer if it wasn't all gone. No doctor will give me TRT except those health clinics,but i don't need them because i can do it my self,my Primary and Endo treating my thyroid doesn't mind getting labs done for test level when i ask.....I usually get my levels checked at least twice a year...I just did a cycle of 150 mg EQ and 150 mg Test E weekly for 8 weeks and i get my PSA checked in April,so i can see if it effected it. It helped regain some lost muscle i had because of the ADT and low test...It will be interesting to see what my PSA level will be after the EQ,Test cycle because it was actually lower after i did the 120mg test cycle for 3 months,it went from 0.60 to 0.40 after the test cycle...

 

[LW64]

Nobody will raise an eyebrow with PSA readings that low.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Jq88]

I feel like I've found my sweet spot:

50mg tcyp e3d
.25mg Adex e3d
250iu HCG e3d

HOWEVER, I still get a nasty e2 Rush from HCG...

Would trying 80iu everyday cause less aromitization?

Any downside to trying this?

Thanks for any responses.