What is wrong with daily low dose HCG with TRT?

[foreveryoung]

I feel like I've found my sweet spot:

50mg tcyp e3d
.25mg Adex e3d
250iu HCG e3d

HOWEVER, I still get a nasty e2 Rush from HCG...

Would trying 80iu everyday cause less aromitization?

Any downside to trying this?

Thanks for any responses.

What happens if you drop the Hcg and arimidex? I've found my best successes are protocols that completely avoid both

 

[Jq88]

Morning wood not as strong without Adex.

HCG seems to have some effect on brain function mood and libido.

Forever young... What is your current protocol? IM or SC injections?

I am secondary and have a good response to HCG but not without a rush of estrogen.

 

[LW64]

I feel like I've found my sweet spot:

50mg tcyp e3d
.25mg Adex e3d
250iu HCG e3d

HOWEVER, I still get a nasty e2 Rush from HCG...

Would trying 80iu everyday cause less aromitization?

Any downside to trying this?

Thanks for any responses.

LABS???

 

[MR10X]

Morning wood not as strong without Adex.

HCG seems to have some effect on brain function mood and libido.

Forever young... What is your current protocol? IM or SC injections?

I am secondary and have a good response to HCG but not without a rush of estrogen.

On my last PCT i used HCG for 4 weeks before starting Clomid and Nolvadex,My libido was really good while i was on the HCG,moreso than with the Clomid and Nolvadex......

 

[Nick9]

@LW64 You seem to have this subject nailed down, so I have a quick question. it is my understanding that hcg and products like it are to keep you fertile and nuts bigger. I'm not having more children. My question.. Is there any health issues that arrise from small testicals? I figure smaller nuts will make my dick look bigger, and I need all the help I can get. That part is a joke.. Maybe? But really.. On TRT don't people feel a sense of well being already? So, other than to have children, what are the drawbacks of the shrunken testes? Thank you.

 

[LW64]

@LW64 So, other than to have children, what are the drawbacks of the shrunken testes? Thank you.

Some men simply do not like it.

In my own case, I have found that HCG does three things that T alone does not:

[1] Testicles do not shrink.

[2] Semen volume does not decrease.

[3] Orgasm quality seems better ("better" = more like before going on TRT).

 

[foreveryoung]

Some men simply do not like it.

In my own case, I have found that HCG does three things that T alone does not:

[1] Testicles do not shrink.

[2] Semen volume does not decrease.

[3] Orgasm quality seems better ("better" = more like before going on TRT).

this goes to show how hormonal effects and protocols are so individual, all three of those reasons you listed for why you take HCG, for me those three reasons are why I avoid HCG

maybe it's the estrogen surge from Hcg, but with my protocol and if I completely avoid Hcg and any AI my testicles are ok in size, semen volume is good, lots of precum, and orgasm quality is extreme..... If I do Hcg all three of those things get worse

I guess the moral of the story is you have to find out and individualize everything for yourself, because what works for one might be the worst protocol for you

 

[vgc]

Personally I haven't experienced ANY atrophy (a bit initially, but back to full size now), and all aspects of sexual pleasure are dramatically better than pre TRT with no HCG. That said, my levels were comically low (well under 100) prior to TRT, which might explain some of it.

 

[Jq88]

Yeah everybody's different...

HCG makes T:E ration very hard to lock down.

I just don't know how valuable it is for me...

I am very secondary so may be very important.

Major e2 spikes with HCG 250iu eod...

60mg (2x/wk) IM feels good... But need some Adex...

I go from low e2 to high e2 overnight...

This is very difficult. Yet still better than pre-TRT HAHA...

Oh does it fee good to be locked in.

Pornstar sex last night.

No morning wood. Popped an Adex. Now too low hahah

 

[Jq88]

Another thing that sucks is that Adex wears off after two days...

So once those estrogen cells are allowed to aromatase... Things can get ugly.

This all seems very challenging.

The wait and see game

 

[Jq88]

I have low e2 and high e2 sides at the same time!!!

Low e2 from Adex and high e2 from HCG...

Hahahaha

This is why lw64 Reccommends T only. At least to start.

Problem with me is I get shut down and my Pregnenolone disappears as well. Think I need my hpta going.

 

[vgc]

I have low e2 and high e2 sides at the same time!!!

Low e2 from Adex and high e2 from HCG...

Hahahaha

This is why lw64 Reccommends T only. At least to start.

Problem with me is I get shut down and my Pregnenolone disappears as well. Think I need my hpta going.

Pregnenolone is not synthesized solely in the testes, and is not produced solely in response to LH and FSH. Are your ACTH or cortisol numbers off? What makes you think the lack of testicular steroid production is a problem for you?

 

[Jq88]

Vgc I really appreciate your response.

Didn't get a cortisol read last labs but I remember it being low... What is acth?

The reason I say this is because testicular shrinkage happened very abruptly for me after 4 months on trt...

My next reading showed PREGNENOLONE very low and obviously no LH/FSH and I was having erectile issues.

Also, feel mentally sharper after HCG shot... What could account for that?

I could give two fucks about ball size and am confident about restarting if I ever needed to...

This seems to be an ongoin debate but is HCG needed? Is it individual?

Huge libido rush with HCG. But would love to be without it and avoid estrogen sides.

My cholesterol was also low with last reading.

Having such trouble dialing this in....

50/.25/250iu e3d seems to be the best for me but not without estrogen fluctuation

Just want to feel steady.

 

[Jq88]

Yesterday I felt strong had a great workout. Today had to leave no motivation weights felt heavy poor cardiovascular function.

Was dialed in last night. This morning had sweats no morning wood felt like high e2 took .25adex now I'm too low.

My estrogen fluctuates so quickly. Like I said overnight.

 

[foreveryoung]

Yesterday I felt strong had a great workout. Today had to leave no motivation weights felt heavy poor cardiovascular function.

Was dialed in last night. This morning had sweats no morning wood felt like high e2 took .25adex now I'm too low.

My estrogen fluctuates so quickly. Like I said overnight.

Good luck with that. I won't mess with either arimidex or Hcg anymore, they are not part of a solution for me, I have a vial and a bunch of AI's I should probably throw away because I don't see myself going that route of experimentation again, tried so many times and variations but there is way too much bad compared to good that comes with them.

 

[Jq88]

Forever young... What is your current protocol?

 

[foreveryoung]

Forever young... What is your current protocol?

I do things very differently than most, been experimenting for decades trying to scientifically get this all figured out, and find that the endocrine system is a bit of a moving target. my current protocol is low dose of tren, test, and masteron, every 3days injection, no hcg and no ai or serms at all, pt 141 and viagra for sex.

you can read the ups and downs and changes in my protocol here: https://thinksteroids.com/community...ld-be-the-main-goal-in-life.134323894/page-40

 

[Jq88]

Just took 50/250/.25...

Brain fog puffiness bloat completely out of it...

I think it's the HCG...

but I'm completely shut down without it.

Estrogenic rebound is real. Have no idea what to do.

 

[vgc]

Vgc I really appreciate your response.

Didn't get a cortisol read last labs but I remember it being low... What is acth?

The reason I say this is because testicular shrinkage happened very abruptly for me after 4 months on trt...

My next reading showed PREGNENOLONE very low and obviously no LH/FSH and I was having erectile issues.

Also, feel mentally sharper after HCG shot... What could account for that?

I could give two fucks about ball size and am confident about restarting if I ever needed to...

This seems to be an ongoin debate but is HCG needed? Is it individual?

Huge libido rush with HCG. But would love to be without it and avoid estrogen sides.

My cholesterol was also low with last reading.

Having such trouble dialing this in....

50/.25/250iu e3d seems to be the best for me but not without estrogen fluctuation

Just want to feel steady.

ACTH is the hormone that governs the adrenal glands.

I ask about that and cortisol because the adrenals should produce enough pregnenolone to facilitate cortisol production.

In theory, lack of testicular preg shouldn't matter, because it is produced elsewhere in the body. If other steroid levels are low too, that suggests something else going on that needs addressing, and HCG might not be the answer.

Anecdotally, some guys feel better on HCG, I'm just skeptical about the pregnenolone thing, given that it is also produced elsewhere, and an otherwise healthy person should be able to make enough to facilitate the production of other steroids.

If levels of other steroids are off, finding the cause should be priority one.