I haven't had a cup off coffee in a LONG time...but I'm thinking about picking back up! I had to kick it because although I didn't seem to wired it would make my hands shake with interfered with my day to day routine. I used to get these little glass vials that looked kinda like gear that was super concentrated ginseng liquid. Had like a tan label and some chinese writing on them but I haven't seen them in awhile. I don't do preworkouts, and try not to have caffeine but isn't there some over the counter stims that have more of an herbal ingredient profile? Some guys are on that Hydroxycut SX-7 and like it but it's way to expensive just too use it as a pick-me-up. I'm still trying to kick the can maybe I will go for the good ol' replacement technique and just start taking pinches of coffee grounds