What's the optimal macro split?

[Biggerarms22]

How many grams protien, carb, and fat per lb of bodyweight?

John Meadows:

Protien 1.2G per lb bodyweight.
Fat .4G per lb bodyweight.
Carbs make up the rest.


Hany Rambod:

Protien 1.5G per lb bodyweight.
Fat .4G per lb bodyweight.
Carb 2-3G per lb bodyweight.

Fouad Abiad:

Protien 1.5G per lb bodyweight.
Fat .35G per lb bodyweight.
Carb 2-3G per lb bodyweight.

Greg Doucette:

Protien 1G per lb *LEAN body mass*
Doesn't count the others. Only counts calories.

 

[malfeasance]

Other than Greg's, those do not appear all that different

 

[Biggerarms22]

Other than Greg's, those do not appear all that different

Relatively similar, true. But I'd really like to hear from the best in our member base what they think the best numbers are and why. What's the ideal. Is there even one? So much debate about how much of each we actually need. 1 or 1.2G protien versus 1.5G protien is frequently debated. How would you adjust it? @malfeasance

This is an age old debate. Hoping meso's best can put an end to it.

 

[Eman]

It's not really that controversial of a topic... At least 1gr/lb bodyweight is very widely accepted, more than that has not been shown to be much more effective. However, 1.2-1.5gr/lb has shown to be more effective for diet when cutting is the goal IE retaining lean muscle.

With that said, there is no one black and white number that's exactly correct either... And a lot of studies seem to point to that. Everyone has slightly different goals and macro intake should reflect that.

Also, I can assure you, those numbers you're citing are not given to every athlete by the respective coaches you're mentioning... For example, I would be in a mild caloric deficit if I went with Hany and/or Fouad's plan. I guess if I was cutting it would be okay... It just doesn't make any sense to say that they stick to this even close to universally.

 

[Biggerarms22]

It's not really that controversial of a topic... At least 1gr/lb bodyweight is very widely accepted, more than that has not been shown to be much more effective. However, 1.2-1.5gr/lb has shown to be more effective for diet when cutting is the goal IE retaining lean muscle.

With that said, there is no one black and white number that's exactly correct either... And a lot of studies seem to point to that. Everyone has slightly different goals and macro intake should reflect that.

Also, I can assure you, those numbers you're citing are not given to every athlete by the respective coaches you're mentioning... For example, I would be in a mild caloric deficit if I went with Hany and/or Fouad's plan. I guess if I was cutting it would be okay... It just doesn't make any sense to say that they stick to this even close to universally.

Thanks bro. 1.2-1.5G has been shown to be more effective when cutting is the goal. Why really is that?

Might it be because when In a deficit the body utilizes some protien for energy, and having an excess keeps the body where it needs to be to maximize anabolism? I understand protien is thermogenic, and the body burns cals while digesting it. Is there anything i'm missing?

But I hear you about the the numbers not being universal, I should have mentioned they were a starting point. For example Hany begins by multiplying a males bodyweight by 15 to get a rough estimate of starting cals. X12 for women, or those with a slower metabolism, knowing the person has a high metabolism he'll start around X17.

 

[Millard]

The macros would vary depending on a lot of factors e.g. maintenance/bulk/diet, high/low cardio, AAS/drug-free.

The protein numbers above are lower than what I would have expected. Perhaps they are daily minimum requirements? Also, I don't get the fixed carb recommendations.

 

[Biggerarms22]

The macros would vary depending on a lot of factors e.g. maintenance/bulk/diet, high/low cardio, AAS/drug-free.

The protein numbers above are lower than what I would have expected. Perhaps they are daily minimum requirements? Also, I don't get the fixed carb recommendations.

The macros would certainly vary. A persons total daily expenditure is highly dependent on their stats, state of their metabolism, activity levels, and of course goals. Certainly AAS/GH would enhance nutrient intake and lead to a higher BMR.

Rather than daily minimum requirements, or fixed recommendations they are a starting point.

Personal training, I'm planning to adjust clients diets week to week. Starting protien at 1G if in growing phase or maintainence, 1.2G if in a deficit. Fats universally at .4G, and Carbs will be the major thing I'm planning to adjust. Particularly with a starting point for most of my athletes being 2-3G. Would push carbs as low as 1G for certain clients.

With this said I'm still learning, (aren't we all) and I'm very much open to input. As a matter of fact this thread did contribute to me determining ill raise protien for example from 1G to 1.2G during a deficit.

I'm very open to all feedback. I'm actually asking for it... Experts wanted.

 

[Eman]

Why really is that?

The thermic effect of food is a likely reason, satiety is another.

But, probably the biggest reason is that the rate of catabolism is going to be higher in a dieting phase... Protein needs may actually increase even further over the dieting phase as well, because the likelihood for catabolism tends to increase over time (during a diet).

 

[malfeasance]

For example, I would be in a mild caloric deficit if I went with Hany and/or Fouad's plan.

Really? Assuming 250 pounds, Fouad's plan is 5,287.5 calories.

 

[malfeasance]

The thermic effect of food is a likely reason, satiety is another.

But, probably the biggest reason is that the rate of catabolism is going to be higher in a dieting phase... Protein needs may actually increase even further over the dieting phase as well, because the likelihood for catabolism tends to increase over time (during a diet).

I need to keep an index. There is a thread somewhere on here with protein studies, and the best body composition after fat loss was at 1.6, but they did not go higher. The line on the chart was still climbing at that point. Essentially, each study showed whatever the highest protein amount was ended up with the best overall body composition at the end of the study.

 

[malfeasance]

I have also heard more than one IFBB pro in a podcast say that much, much higher amounts of protein worked best (like 500 grams a day and more), usually followed by complaints about sticking to that diet and none of them do it now because it was sheer torture, but each of them confirmed it was their best results when they did do it. I think I have heard at least three of them so far in different podcasts. I have never heard any IFBB pro say that they tried such high protein and it made no difference.

(PS - There may be examples out there - I am just saying I have not heard it)

 

[Eman]

Really? Assuming 250 pounds, Fouad's plan is 5,287.5 calories.

No, actually... I must have miscounted somewhere. That would be a decent surplus for me.

Regardless, my point is mainly the same... It's too fixed to be logical.