Why do some people suggest am AI during a cycle?

[Serpes]

And just keep in mind my knowledge isn't from a long period of experience. I'm on my 2nd cycle and have researched a ton on this forum and have gotten a ton of great advice from some of the seasoned vets around here. I'd rather try to help than have ou making a post about needing to wear a sports bra when running from now on.

I think I would like to take your advice and not take dbol as my first cycle. Should I still do my Test E @ 500mg? Or should I do a different testosterone compound like cyp which I heard is for beginners?

 

[Jeremiahflex]

I think I would like to take your advice and not take dbol as my first cycle. Should I still do my Test E @ 500mg? Or should I do a different testosterone compound like cyp which I heard is for beginners?

E and c are damn near the same, do some more research and be safe my man.

 

[ChestRockwell]

You don't mention blood work at all. How would any body know estro and test levels without bloodwork. You mention a "happy body" sounds like you're basing that on just how you feel. Whether or not someone needs an AI is dependent on the way they respond to test, telling people they don't need it is reckless.

Reckless, yeah okay...

In my experience, the only time serum estradiol levels can be singularly conclusive is when someone is natural, or running true TRT. As soon as you get into supratherapeutic doses of exogenous testosterone, the numbers are simply one of many objective/subjective variables that need to be considered.

Over the years, I've learned that things such as A:E (androgen:estrogen) ratios are FAR more important as it relates to someones potential for developing sides and/or feeling less than ideal. And, when we start talking about someone using more than just testosterone, then serum estradiol becomes even LESS valuable as it relates to a singular test metric.

Not to mention, that you now have the entire progresterone/prolactin/estradiol axis, so even if estradiol "is in range" that does not mean that someone is actually where they should be hormonally.

Now, don't get me wrong - I still have all my athletes get a set of comprehensive bloods done after each contest (or blast) because I'm a huge nerd when it comes to data and seeing what the body is doing under the hood. But there are just so many other objective and subjective variables to consider than thinking you can look at test/estradiol numbers and have a full picture is just silly. And yes, some of this will be subjective as I've had a number of folks come to me with "issues" and to the casual observer their tests all showed values in range...so what do you do in that case?

I take a lot of pride in the fact that most all of my athletes who came to me relying upon AIs and ancillaries have either stopped using them altogether or significantly lowered their reliance upon them over time....

 

[Serpes]

E and c are damn near the same, do some more research and be safe my man.

I read an article that suggested Cyp first over E as a beginner cycle which makes no sense. It seems the more research I do the more contradictory it gets. Or it might be propionate?

Is it neither and propionate also the same as E? I take your word for it.

 

[Savagesteve]

I read an article that suggested Cyp first over E as a beginner cycle which makes no sense. It seems the more research I do the more contradictory it gets. Or it might be propionate?

Is it neither and propionate also the same as E? I take your word for it.

In the end test is test the difference is the ester. Cyp and e half lives aren't but a few days apart so e would be fine as a first cycle. Pin your 500mg in 250mg twice a week

 

[Jeremiahflex]

Reckless, yeah okay...

In my experience, the only time serum estradiol levels can be singularly conclusive is when someone is natural, or running true TRT. As soon as you get into supratherapeutic doses of exogenous testosterone, the numbers are simply one of many objective/subjective variables that need to be considered.

Over the years, I've learned that things such as A:E (androgen:estrogen) ratios are FAR more important as it relates to someones potential for developing sides and/or feeling less than ideal. And, when we start talking about someone using more than just testosterone, then serum estradiol becomes even LESS valuable as it relates to a singular test metric.

Not to mention, that you now have the entire progresterone/prolactin/estradiol axis, so even if estradiol "is in range" that does not mean that someone is actually where they should be hormonally.

Now, don't get me wrong - I still have all my athletes get a set of comprehensive bloods done after each contest (or blast) because I'm a huge nerd when it comes to data and seeing what the body is doing under the hood. But there are just so many other objective and subjective variables to consider than thinking you can look at test/estradiol numbers and have a full picture is just silly. And yes, some of this will be subjective as I've had a number of folks come to me with "issues" and to the casual observer their tests all showed values in range...so what do you do in that case?

I take a lot of pride in the fact that most all of my athletes who came to me relying upon AIs and ancillaries have either stopped using them altogether or significantly lowered their reliance upon them over time....

I saw this dude on instagram sounds just like you and all of "his athletes" have a set of "B" cups.

 

[Serpes]

Should I use HCG if I ever start my first steroid cycle? What dosage/intervals?

Is HCG something you can do as a first-timer?

 

[Savagesteve]

Should I use HCG if I ever start my first steroid cycle? What dosage/intervals?

Is HCG something you can do as a first-timer?

I could be wrong but I believe you may be younger which. Would make it more beneficial to run hcg. I on the other hand am in my 30s with kids and don't want anymore kids so I don't mind the atrophy or the shutdown. I've never ran hcg but I know there are two protocols that a lot of guys run. Some run 500iu a week on cycle split into two 250 iu shots. Some run higher doses at the end of a cycle.

 

[Serpes]

Thanks, I will be using HCG then.

 

[Ryno1980]

If you are needing AIs then you likely are either running too much gear, or have a very poorly designed blast.

I think this might be the dumbest shit I've heard all day..... but thank you for making me laugh...

 

[ChestRockwell]

I think this might be the dumbest shit I've heard all day..... but thank you for making me laugh...

Again, I stand 100% behind this statement. But I would welcome you to participate in the discussion by sharing your alternative views as opposed to making passive commentary...

 

[weighted chinup]

I agree with Chest, I only include an AI when e2 is symptomatic, which for me is pretty much never with the exception of my very first cycle. As far as keeping e2 in range goes, it's not something I have much interest in when TT is 2000+. Again, unless there are symptoms, which means I generally never include one at the start.

Why is not using shit you don't need a bad thing? It's the typical bodybuilder approach to shit, just throw more drugs at it - that will solve it.

The only thing I don't agree with that he said is that e2 symptoms means too much steronz, IME issues can occur at much lower doses and maybe never occur at much higher doses. I don't think this is one of those times where keeping dose low will necessarily solve the issue.

And lol @ anyone who thinks an AI is going to save you from gyno'ing. Because people never develop gyno while taking AI's, rite....and guys who don't take AI's always get gyno.

Doctors prescribe AI's on trt doses so idk what you're talking about. Everybody's different though

Not commonly, unless you're referring to TRT clinics. But no, most doctors don't prescribe AI's because they are not usually needed when TT is kept in normal range. Most of the time the need for an AI can be dropped entirely if they just use a normal dose for TRT.

You're better off keeping TT at a place where an AI is not necessary, even if it means lowering your TRT dose.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I agree with Chest, I only include an AI when e2 is symptomatic, which for me is pretty much never with the exception of my very first cycle. As far as keeping e2 in range goes, it's not something I have much interest in when TT is 2000+. Again, unless there are symptoms, which means I generally never include one at the start.

Why is not using shit you don't need a bad thing? It's the typical bodybuilder approach to shit, just throw more drugs at it - that will solve it.

The only thing I don't agree with that he said is that e2 symptoms means too much steronz, IME issues can occur at much lower doses and maybe never occur at much higher doses. I don't think this is one of those times where keeping dose low will necessarily solve the issue.

And lol @ anyone who thinks an AI is going to save you from gyno'ing. Because people never develop gyno while taking AI's, rite....and guys who don't take AI's always get gyno.



Not commonly, unless you're referring to TRT clinics. But no, most doctors don't prescribe AI's because they are not usually needed when TT is kept in normal range. Most of the time the need for an AI can be dropped entirely if they just use a normal dose for TRT.

You're better off keeping TT at a place where an AI is not necessary, even if it means lowering your TRT dose.

I agree with alot of this. Im still testing my boundaries to where estrogen ranges are detrimental to my cycle. Ive been at an assorted 3 grams and no real need for an AI. Recommend that? No i certainly do not

 

[pittbox]

Hi I wanted to know why people suggest an AI during a cycle rather than after the cycle is concluded?

In some cycle threads I see an AI during a cycle.

Obviously you don't have gyno YET.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Ryno1980]

Again, I stand 100% behind this statement. But I would welcome you to participate in the discussion by sharing your alternative views as opposed to making passive commentary...

First of all, as almost every single person on this thread has already pointed out, every human body is different in the way it handles hormones.. for you to say a person shouldn't need an ai is reckless... for you to assume one person may handle something the way you do is also reckless... not sure if your just trying to sound like a badass or act like you know what the Fuck your talking about .... either way I assure you , and everyone reading this thread for that matter that you don't have a fucking clue what your talking about... I just hope a bunch of newbies don't go out and try to do a test dbol cycle with no ai because of your reckless statements

 

[Ryno1980]

I agree with Chest, I only include an AI when e2 is symptomatic, which for me is pretty much never with the exception of my very first cycle. As far as keeping e2 in range goes, it's not something I have much interest in when TT is 2000+. Again, unless there are symptoms, which means I generally never include one at the start.

Why is not using shit you don't need a bad thing? It's the typical bodybuilder approach to shit, just throw more drugs at it - that will solve it.

The only thing I don't agree with that he said is that e2 symptoms means too much steronz, IME issues can occur at much lower doses and maybe never occur at much higher doses. I don't think this is one of those times where keeping dose low will necessarily solve the issue.

And lol @ anyone who thinks an AI is going to save you from gyno'ing. Because people never develop gyno while taking AI's, rite....and guys who don't take AI's always get gyno.



Not commonly, unless you're referring to TRT clinics. But no, most doctors don't prescribe AI's because they are not usually needed when TT is kept in normal range. Most of the time the need for an AI can be dropped entirely if they just use a normal dose for TRT.

You're better off keeping TT at a place where an AI is not necessary, even if it means lowering your TRT dose.

So let me make sure I got this right.... my trt dose is 200 mg a week... and your right at that dose I have no need for an ai... but at 500 a week (blast) I need .5 adex eod or I start getting symptoms of high e2... if left alone for more than a week I get gyno..... so explain to me how I'm supposed to run a cycle, without an ai and not get gyno... ? Your suggesting everyone run their test at a low trt dose instead of using an ai?

 

[weighted chinup]

So let me make sure I got this right.... my trt dose is 200 mg a week... and your right at that dose I have no need for an ai... but at 500 a week (blast) I need .5 adex eod or I start getting symptoms of high e2... if left alone for more than a week I get gyno..... so explain to me how I'm supposed to run a cycle, without an ai and not get gyno... ? Your suggesting everyone run their test at a low trt dose instead of using an ai?

You get gyno when you automatically bump it up to 500 for longer than a week? Really? I find that hard to believe, especially considering an AI isn't the most effective way to prevent gyno on cycle.

I've ran test up to 1000mg / week with other compounds too very briefly. No AI, no issues. I don't use ancillaries anymore. I have a bottle of nolva in case of real gyno symptoms.

 

[Ryno1980]

You get gyno when you automatically bump it up to 500 for longer than a week? Really? I find that hard to believe, especially considering an AI isn't the most effective way to prevent gyno on cycle.

I've ran test up to 1000mg / week with other compounds too very briefly. No AI, no issues. I don't use ancillaries anymore. I have a bottle of nolva in case of real gyno symptoms.

That's not what I said.... I said when I bump up to 500 a week, I have to take .5 adex or my e2 gets out of control and after a week or so of high e2, I start getting a lump under my right nipple...

 

[weighted chinup]

That's not what I said.... I said when I bump up to 500 a week, I have to take .5 adex or my e2 gets out of control and after a week or so of high e2, I start getting a lump under my right nipple...

It takes longer than that for gyno to form. The lump was more than likely already there.

I get the occasional tingles or sensitivity in the lumps that are already there, but I haven't used an AI in I don't know how long and my gyno hasn't gotten worse. I know at this point when I need to worry about gyno and it hasn't come up yet thankfully.

I can tell you that you probably aren't as gyno prone as you think if you can solve it with a little bit of adex and it starts that early in the blast.

 

[Ryno1980]

It takes longer than that for gyno to form. The lump was more than likely already there.

I get the occasional tingles or sensitivity in the lumps that are already there, but I haven't used an AI in I don't know how long and my gyno hasn't gotten worse. I know at this point when I need to worry about gyno and it hasn't come up yet thankfully.

I can tell you that you probably aren't as gyno prone as you think if you can solve it with a little bit of adex and it starts that early in the blast.

So your telling me you can run a test deca cycle, with a dbol kickstart and not use an ai? I just don't believe that.... I think it's about the compounds ds you are running... I'm not saying your wrong or that peeps can't cycle without them... I just don't think it's a good idea to be posting a thread saying you shouldn't use an ai on cycle... newbs do dumb shit on their own without thinking they can just save a bunch of money and run all the good shit without being prepared...