Masteron vs Primo Advance Discussion

[DECLAN]

So they apparently discovered a new ai function of primobolan which supports the anecdotal and bloodwork evidence gym bros we're talking about.

Now the answer why you feel crashed estrogen symptoms when using primo finally is supported by scientific evidence.

Great in depth discussion. Dr. Todd Lee has a 3 videos on primo vs mast which should be viewed by everyone using peds, bro science is proven right once again lol.


View: https://youtu.be/oAUf5VjDaQ4?si=qu9pmiC97vVaW6h1

 

[demon]

great video

 

[Deskoze38192]

I liked it.
I run Primo a lot and running it currently in a low dose so my E2 can climb up a little with high test and moderate nandrolone. I have lots of bloodwork on Primo and this information is concurrent with what I have found myself.
This video really makes me want to use more Mast and less Primo as I think it fits my goals better.
Great info about Novla and it acting as a SERM and as an AI to a lesser degree. I was unaware of the AI affects.
Would be interested if they discussed Ralox in more depth like they did Novla since Ralox is what I’ve been using.
I’m not worried about hair but for the guys that are, some good info on the relationship with E2 and DHT

 

[T&H]

I believe @Type-IIx was putting together a research paper or something on Primo and it's effects on E2. Would love his opinion on the video.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

I believe @Type-IIx was putting together a research paper or something on Primo and it's effects on E2. Would love his opinion on the video.

Are you referring to this?

Primobolan / Equipoise Crashed my E2 – Help!

Understand the complex interaction of Primobolan and Equipoise with estrogen levels, symptoms of low estrogens, and practical decision-making strategies for managing these effects in AAS users.

thinksteroids.com

 

[T&H]

Are you referring to this?

Primobolan / Equipoise Crashed my E2 – Help!

Understand the complex interaction of Primobolan and Equipoise with estrogen levels, symptoms of low estrogens, and practical decision-making strategies for managing these effects in AAS users.

thinksteroids.com

I completely missed that article but it does appear to be what he was referring to. I always thought he would write something about Primo alone.

Thanks, I'll mark this to read later.

 

[DECLAN]

I guess, the notion of the two being interchangeable would slowly switch to running them together in certain individualized ratios now.

I have just brewed primo in 125mg per ml and mast p at 150mg per ml, I guess their both getting pinned come January lol.

 

[Type-IIx]

So they apparently discovered a new ai function of primobolan which supports the anecdotal and bloodwork evidence gym bros we're talking about.

Now the answer why you feel crashed estrogen symptoms when using primo finally is supported by scientific evidence.

Great in depth discussion. Dr. Todd Lee has a 3 videos on primo vs mast which should be viewed by everyone using peds, bro science is proven right once again lol.


View: https://youtu.be/oAUf5VjDaQ4?si=qu9pmiC97vVaW6h1

I watched this video enthusiastically and took notes. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a dumpster fire of bad information.

False claims (non-exhaustive):

1. Mast acts as a SERM because it agonizes ER-β
2. Primo is evidenced to metabolize to 1-methyl-3,17-dione-androsta-1,4-diene (atamestane; an AI)... I investigated this claim and I do not believe that Primo loses its 5α-androst core in man such that this cannot be a metabolite, and certainly, Primo does not act as a "pro drug" to it
3. Site-specific i.m. injection is necessary to augment autocrine/paracrine (local) IGF-I activity
4. Inhibiting 5α-reductase (e.g., dutasteride, finasteride) shunts activity towards the aromatase pathway
5. Broscience "Primo:Test" & "Mast:Test" ratio bullshit
6. Concentration-dependency of estradiol & IGF-I & asymptotic shape to curve. Rather than a product of E2 concentrations, aromatization per se increases IGF-I & E2 negatively regulates (inhibits) IGF-I.

There was probably more, I probably stopped about halfway through because of the depth of nonsense.

 

[Avarice911]

These Dr Todd and Kurt videos have been painful to watch. The one posted earlier today took about 15 minutes before they began talking about the topic which was nandrolone… then it quickly devolved into a discussion about tren and then I gave up on watching it at that point

 

[DECLAN]

I watched this video enthusiastically and took notes. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a dumpster fire of bad information.

False claims (non-exhaustive):

1. Mast acts as a SERM because it agonizes ER-β
2. Primo is evidenced to metabolize to 1-methyl-3,17-dione-androsta-1,4-diene (atamestane; an AI)... I investigated this claim and I do not believe that Primo loses its 5α-androst core in man such that this cannot be a metabolite, and certainly, Primo does not act as a "pro drug" to it
3. Site-specific i.m. injection is necessary to augment autocrine/paracrine (local) IGF-I activity
4. Inhibiting 5α-reductase (e.g., dutasteride, finasteride) shunts activity towards the aromatase pathway
5. Broscience "Primo:Test" & "Mast:Test" ratio bullshit
6. Concentration-dependency of estradiol & IGF-I & asymptotic shape to curve. Rather than a product of E2 concentrations, aromatization per se increases IGF-I & E2 negatively regulates (inhibits) IGF-I.

There was probably more, I probably stopped about halfway through because of the depth of nonsense.

So, how do you refute this claims then? If you think they spreading misinformation or the research Kurt claims to be part of is wrong, is there a way for you to reach out to them? Maybe comment on their page?

As a layman and gym enthusiast, I just want honest reliable information from the common widespread platforms. I would like to see a debate from different sources on who is saying the truth now.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I watched this video enthusiastically and took notes. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a dumpster fire of bad information.

False claims (non-exhaustive):

1. Mast acts as a SERM because it agonizes ER-β
2. Primo is evidenced to metabolize to 1-methyl-3,17-dione-androsta-1,4-diene (atamestane; an AI)... I investigated this claim and I do not believe that Primo loses its 5α-androst core in man such that this cannot be a metabolite, and certainly, Primo does not act as a "pro drug" to it
3. Site-specific i.m. injection is necessary to augment autocrine/paracrine (local) IGF-I activity
4. Inhibiting 5α-reductase (e.g., dutasteride, finasteride) shunts activity towards the aromatase pathway
5. Broscience "Primo:Test" & "Mast:Test" ratio bullshit
6. Concentration-dependency of estradiol & IGF-I & asymptotic shape to curve. Rather than a product of E2 concentrations, aromatization per se increases IGF-I & E2 negatively regulates (inhibits) IGF-I.

There was probably more, I probably stopped about halfway through because of the depth of nonsense.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate your input.

 

[baxter0312]

For the primo users what was your cholesterol like before and during use? My hdl was naturally very high, like the highest the doc had ever seen. Primo has absolutely trashed it.

 

[T&H]

I watched this video enthusiastically and took notes. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a dumpster fire of bad information.

False claims (non-exhaustive):

1. Mast acts as a SERM because it agonizes ER-β
2. Primo is evidenced to metabolize to 1-methyl-3,17-dione-androsta-1,4-diene (atamestane; an AI)... I investigated this claim and I do not believe that Primo loses its 5α-androst core in man such that this cannot be a metabolite, and certainly, Primo does not act as a "pro drug" to it
3. Site-specific i.m. injection is necessary to augment autocrine/paracrine (local) IGF-I activity
4. Inhibiting 5α-reductase (e.g., dutasteride, finasteride) shunts activity towards the aromatase pathway
5. Broscience "Primo:Test" & "Mast:Test" ratio bullshit
6. Concentration-dependency of estradiol & IGF-I & asymptotic shape to curve. Rather than a product of E2 concentrations, aromatization per se increases IGF-I & E2 negatively regulates (inhibits) IGF-I.

There was probably more, I probably stopped about halfway through because of the depth of nonsense.

Appreciate you taking the time. I didn't watch it because A) I hate watching any videos, prefer written data and B) anyone can sell anything in a video unless you know how to decipher the BS. Which I defer to knowledgeable members like yourself, since I'm clueless how to properly disect truth from opinion.

I posted about my experience here in the past. I think 300 test, 600 Primo E2 was 14 and 24 on different bloodwork at different times. Low, but far from crashed. Primo does however kill any and all sex drive.

 

[BigTomJ]

So they apparently discovered a new ai function of primobolan which supports the anecdotal and bloodwork evidence gym bros we're talking about.

Now the answer why you feel crashed estrogen symptoms when using primo finally is supported by scientific evidence.

Great in depth discussion. Dr. Todd Lee has a 3 videos on primo vs mast which should be viewed by everyone using peds, bro science is proven right once again lol.


View: https://youtu.be/oAUf5VjDaQ4?si=qu9pmiC97vVaW6h1

So where is the actual research?

Didn't watch the video because gear talk on YouTube is traditionally cringe as all fuck and RIFE with bro science misinformation. But I see no citation anywhere to anything credible.

After reading @Type-IIx impressions I'm glad I saved myself the frustration.

Today, so much of the new bro science that comes up, is just sciency bro science, where some outlandish claim is made with only tenuous or whole incorrect conclusions are drawn from cherry picked data such that the bro science SOUNDS like real science.
(We can thank MPMD for this cultural shift, at least as far as YouTube is concerned.)

Still all just as unfounded as the old school bro science, just dressed up in prettier jargon to masquerade as credible.

 

[Avarice911]

So where is the actual research?

Didn't watch the video because gear talk on YouTube is traditionally cringe as all fuck and RIFE with bro science misinformation. But I see no citation anywhere to anything credible.

After reading @Type-IIx impressions I'm glad I saved myself the frustration.

Today, so much of the new bro science that comes up, is just sciency bro science, where some outlandish claim is made with only tenuous or whole incorrect conclusions are drawn from cherry picked data such that the bro science SOUNDS like real science.
(We can thank MPMD for this cultural shift, at least as far as YouTube is concerned.)

Still all just as unfounded as the old school bro science, just dressed up in prettier jargon to masquerade as credible.

These YouTube gurus just appeal to authority by using their doctorate or being big as making them credible in everything they say. And they say it all with such confidence that those that don’t research themselves wouldn’t hear it and think twice to believe it

 

[DECLAN]

So where is the actual research?

Didn't watch the video because gear talk on YouTube is traditionally cringe as all fuck and RIFE with bro science misinformation. But I see no citation anywhere to anything credible.

After reading @Type-IIx impressions I'm glad I saved myself the frustration.

Today, so much of the new bro science that comes up, is just sciency bro science, where some outlandish claim is made with only tenuous or whole incorrect conclusions are drawn from cherry picked data such that the bro science SOUNDS like real science.
(We can thank MPMD for this cultural shift, at least as far as YouTube is concerned.)

Still all just as unfounded as the old school bro science, just dressed up in prettier jargon to masquerade as credible.

That's what I'm trying to find out now lol. Like I said, it's tough to determine who's who and what's what, worse thing is there are snipets of truth mixed in all these claims.

Questions is for an ordinary person like me that has no background in scientific research or even a simple grasp on how to interpret clinical data, it's challenging to identify fact from fiction.

I shared this with the intent for people to digest and discuss said analysis by these personalities, I do not claim they're the truth but I was intrigued by the premise on how Primo lowered estrogen as it supported lots of anecdotal claims from blood work of guys who run it in their cycles.

 

[DECLAN]

BTW @Type-IIx the PhD candidate also has an ebook on HGH already published offered on anabolic bodybuilding channel, so he beat you on releasing the literature lol.

I don't know how it is since I didn't buy it for I don't use hgh yet.

 

[Avarice911]

BTW @Type-IIx the PhD candidate also has an ebook on HGH already published offered on anabolic bodybuilding channel, so he beat you on releasing the literature lol.

I don't know how it is since I didn't buy it for I don't use hgh yet.

Not so sure Kurt's book is worth a read based on his other claims in these set of videos.

 

[y777]

For the primo users what was your cholesterol like before and during use? My hdl was naturally very high, like the highest the doc had ever seen. Primo has absolutely trashed it.

What primo dosage and duration did you run to trash the HDL? Thx

 

[DECLAN]

Not so sure Kurt's book is worth a read based on his other claims in these set of videos.

So who do we believe now? Nobody is presenting any evidence just claims?