2,4-DiNitroPhenol [DNP]

Heretic

New Member
Credit to the gods that wrote this... :)

HOW TO NOT FUCK UP DNP:

Since some guys have been playing around and disrespecting DNP and then griping to the forums about the painful results, we need to make this VERY specific and VERY correct so that people won't keep jumping for DNP out of curiosity, or without the willpower they need to operate this respondibly. So here are my experienced guidelines to using it the RIGHT way.

FIRST GUIDLINE: Dosing. Use ONLY 200mg a day for the first four days. I don't care that you don't "feel" anything yet and you wanna bump it up. DNP accumulates in the body, and not "feeling" something means NOTHING. It's there, and it's working (the effect on metabolism begins within two hours of the first dose!). Four days will let you test your tolerance: do you have an allergy? Does it give you a rash? etc.
Only after those four days do you bump it up, by 200mg a day. The average dose is 400-600/day, and more than that gets a little severe. A full gram is the highest dose I've heard anyone use. I've used that much, and it's hell. I like to stay around 600 a day, which is HOT but safe and effective. Take caps even hours apart through the day, ending about 4-5 PM.

SECOND GUIDLINE...How to eat on DNP. This is purely personal experience, because some guys like to carb-deplete *before* using DNP (then eat carbs as usual while on), and other guys like a low-carb approach throughout. Both are fine. Using DNP is the only time that fructose is a desireable cutting carb, because it keeps the liver replentished. That reduces lethargy and spares muscle.
Be aware that eating high-carb foods WILL increase the heat sensation within an hour, and last about 2 hours. That means don't eat carbs before bed unless you want those night sweats to be even WORSE.
Personally, I ate whatever the hell I wanted! IHOP, chinese, fajitas...Yes, I burned hot, but I still lost 1.5 pounds every 2 days. Keep protein HIGH for muscles' sake, and try it yourself.

Foods I suggest including:
Blueberry yogurt. Blueberries are excellent antioxidants, and yogurt cultures help with digestive function, gas, and stool consistency (disgustingly soft stools are common during DNP).
Oregano-based foods. Oregano is perhaps one of the most potent antioxidants around,a nd one spoonful counts as a vegetable serving. See this article
Pineapple - I've found that pineapple helps alleviate those "DNP Blues". The fructose helps, and pineapple enzymes aid in protein digestion.
V8 - one 12-ounce can supplies six servings of veggies, concentrated as an excellent source of antioxidants, lycopene, and recovery of electrolytes.
Oatmeal - high-fiber foods are necessary. You'll find out why around, oh, day 5 or so. Trust me.


THIRD GUIDELINE...Supplements and DNP. I suggest:
ECA - DNP is not a stimulant. To keep energy high and aid in fat loss, use an ECA. Some advisors suggest that regular ephedrine is preferable to norephedrine because of the more direct "hit" of energy.
Prohormones - perfectly fine on DNP. I used 1-AD just to help keep strength and muscle up, and it worked fine. No problems here. You won't GROW muscle on DNP, but it'll help with strength and protection.
Obvious stuff - multivitamin, ZMA, etc.
Biotest PowerDrive - No, I'm not pimping Biotest. But PowerDrive is an excellent pre-workout mixture that actually works. Plus it's low-carb (only 15 calories total), so it won't cause carb-heat in the middle of your workout.

Antioxidants - I'm giving my own personal list, and why I use them:
Alpha Lipoic Acid - aids in fat management and blood sugar, and an excellent antioxidant.
Grape seed extract
Syntrax Radox
Green Tea
Inositol - mood enhancement, antioxidant, and muscle support. 1 gram/3x day
Ellagic acid - protects cell DNA/RNA from damage by free radicals, and may even atack cancerous cells. 400mg/twice a day
Fruit antioxidants - beyond-a-century's powder of high-potency natural fruit anti's. 1 gram, 2-3x day.
Trimethylglyceine - antioxidant, helps move fat and blood lipids into the liver and out of the body. 500mg, 2x day.
Vitamins E and C

Supplements NOT to use:
Any medications that suppress energy. No allergy meds, antidepressants, muscle relaxers, or beta blockers. DNP will have you low as it is; don't worsen your body's energy by taking something that suppresses you further.

DRUGS - Sheesh, you'd think I wouldn't have to mention this, but two idiots in particular (right here on this forum) recently affirmed that some people still just don't get it. NO alcohol (not even "moderate"), NO ecstasy, NO GHB, etc. If you don't have the willpower to forego these habits, DNP is not for you.

Syntrax Swole - a personal discovery. I tried Swole while on DNP...once. Two hours of hell, feeling inside-out.

FOURTH GUIDELINE...working out on DNP. Keep lifting short, 30-40 minutes. DNP works very well, causing your body to use 150% or more the calories per action you'd normally use. That means DON'T try to repeat your usual workouts. Drop to moderate weights, 8-12 reps, not to failure, and with plenty of walking rest between sets. You are NOT going to grow muscle on DNP, so don't use your usual heavy routine. Since DNP can cause light-headedness and heat dizzyness, you have my permission to skip squats in favor of leg presses this time.

Cardio is a controversial one. My advice - do NOT do cardio on high doses of DNP (600mg or more). It's dangerous and counterproductive. Below that amount, some cardio is fine, but keep it to 20 minutes and not at full-gallop. Remember, DNP will drain water from your quickly, causing you to leech out minerals, vitamins, and salts. Don't overdo it.

During exercise, consume at least 1 liter of water per 30 minutes of work, whether you're thirsty or not. DNP is evil in the way it blunts thirst, while at the same time doing the cruel trick of bloating your body with water WHILE dehydrating you from water in your organs. MAKE yourself drink. Always folllow DNP exercise with antioxidants, carbs, and this is a good time to use your multivitamin.

Don't feel embarrassed about poor workouts. Just this morjning I did a workout with a whopping nine sets (wimp!) before calling it quits. Listen to your body, and let it tell you when enough's enough; don't guage workouts by what you *usually* can do otherwise.

Here's my research. This is AMAZING! Not only has not a single test found it to be carcinogenic, but test after tyest after test find that DNP actually ATTACKS cancer cells, and helps anti-cancer medications work better, and helps anti-leukemia medications work without destroying cell DNA, and suppresses tumor growth by 20-50%. The summaries are all right here, friends. Karma me up!

DNP is Ames negative, and does not promote tumors. See for yourself at http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/dinitrop.html (2,4-Dinitrophenol | Technology Transfer Network Air Toxics Web site | US EPA) reports on health risks. While there have not been human studies, animal studies found no cancers caused by DNP administration. It is considered a toxin because it causes nausea, sweating, and weight loss.

Cyberiron.com reports on halth risks from external exposue. In other words, don?t get it in your eyes, or on your skin if you?re allergic. Pretty elementary stuff.

http://www.ebec2000.com/abstracts/056.htm This animal study documents a 64% increase in metabolism. "These findings confirm that DNP effectively increases metabolic rate..." Duh.

Biosource A PDF file about an antidote to DNP.

http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage

"Comparative study of toxicity of 4-nitrophenol and 2,4-dinitrophenol in newborn and young rats." Koizumi M, Yamamoto Y, Ito Y, Takano M, Enami T, Kamata E, Hasegawa R. Division of Risk Assessment, National Institute of Health Sciences, 1-18-1 Kamiyoga, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-8501, Japan. This study found that DNP can induce death in overdosed amounts, but that up to that point no toxicity was evident, nor were there any abnormalities in physical development.

"Phenol toxicity and conjugation in human colonic epithelial cells." Pedersen G, Brynskov J, Saermark T. Dept of Medical Gastroenterology, Herlev University Hospital, Copenhagen, Denmark.. This study found that DNP has a toxic effect on cells of the colon, with "toxic" defined in two ways: first, it interfered with metabolism (this we know?it?s the intended effect of DNP users!) and second, it interfered with bowel inflammation (not a health risk. This is caused by osmotic effect, with the worst results being softened stools and gas).

"Mechanisms of bacterial resistance to macrolide antibiotics." Nakajima Y. Division of Microbiology, Hokkaido College of Pharmacy, 7-1 Katsuraoka-cho, Otaru, Hokkaido 047-0264, Japan. This study found that antibiotic-resistant bacteria could be thwarted with DNP. "the extent of the accumulated drug in a resistant cell increases as much as that in a susceptible cell in the presence of an uncoupling agent such as?2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP)."

"Absence of Crabtree effect in human melanoma cells adapted to growth at low pH: reversal by respiratory inhibitors." Burd R, Wachsberger PR, Biaglow JE, Wahl ML, Lee I, Leeper DB. Departments of Radiation Oncology, Kimmel Cancer Center, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107, USA. Check this out?DNP actually helps make melanoma tumors easier to attack by increasing ratio of oxygen consumption to lactic acid production, while glycolysis remains the same. "Therefore, tumor acute acidification and oxygenation can be achieved by exposure?"


"New insights in the cellular processing of platinum antitumor compounds, using fluorophore-labeled platinum complexes and digital fluorescence microscopy."
Molenaar C, Teuben JM, Heetebrij RJ, Tanke HJ, Reedijk J. Department of Molecular Cell Biology, Leiden University Medical Centre, The Netherlands. DNP is used as a control in tests of antitumor cells because it does NOT bind to cell DNA, nor promote tumors, yet its staining abilities enable tracking of the uptake of antitumor drugs.

Specific inhibition of breast cancer cells by antisense poly-DNP-oligoribonucleotides and targeted apoptosis." Ru K, Taub ML, Wang JH. Department of Biochemistry, State University of New York, Buffalo 14260-3000, USA Are you ready for this? DNP actually INHIBITS (!!!) breast cancers! Yes, not only does it NOT promote cancers, it?s being recognized as a cancer-fighter/blocker. "Two membrane-permeable and RNase-resistant antisense poly-2'-O-(2,4-dinitrophenyl)-oligoribonucleotides (poly-DNP-RNAs) have been synthesized as inhibitors of human breast cancer?fluorescence assay indicates that the targeted antisense inhibition by poly-DNP-RNAs leads to apoptosis of SK-Br-3 cells but does not affect nontumorigenic MCF-10A cells. The control poly-DNP-RNAs with random or sense nucleotide sequence are completely inactive." Plain English? DNP can be synthesized as an anti-cancer compound, because tests show that it blocks mutagens but does NOT affect non-mutagenic (healthy) cells, and has no RNA effects on them.

"Heat shock protein induction by certain chemical stressors is correlated with their cytotoxicity, lipophilicity and protein-denaturing capacity." Neuhaus-Steinmetz U, Rensing L. Institute of Cell Biology, Biochemistry and Biotechnology, NW II University of Bremen, Germany. The thermic effect of DNP induces protein synthesis (heat shock protein, or HSP, synthesis). In fact, it?s quite GOOD at it: "ASA, DNP and CCCP induced HSP at lower concentrations than substances with a similar lipophilicity?"

"Comparative effects of the metabolic inhibitors 2,4-dinitrophenol and iodoacetate on mouse neuroblastoma cells in vitro." Andres MI, Repetto G, Sanz P, Repetto M.
National Institute of Toxicology, Seville, Spain. In this study, DNP?s observed effect was an increase in metabolism (duh!), while the other toxins compared to it had harmful in vitro effects but no increase in metabolism.

"Inhibition of uncoupled respiration in tumor cells. A possible role of mitochondrial Ca2+ efflux." Gabai VL.Medical Radiology Research Center, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Obninsk. DNP not only does not cause tumors, but it inhibited their respiration by 20-25% compared to controls.

"Amsacrine-induced lesions in DNA and their modulation by novobiocin and 2,4-dinitrophenol." Shibuya ML, Buddenbaum WE, Don AL, Utsumi H, Suciu D, Kosaka T, Elkind MM. Department of Radiology and Radiation Biology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523. In this study, researchers found that DNP abrogates?or disrupts?cytotoxicity in hamsters (using cancerous cells). They expected to find that DNP would interfere with anticancer treatments, but instead found that DNP increased their effects. They state, though, that they cannot claim a proven effect of DNP on anticancer treatments yet, although they do agree that treatment with DNP actually enhanced the effects of the DNA regenerative therapy of anticancer chemotherapy.

"Induction of endonucleolytic DNA cleavage in human acute myelogenous leukemia cells by etoposide, camptothecin, and other cytotoxic anticancer drugs: a cautionary note." Kaufmann SH. Oncology Center, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland 21205. The authors warn that certain anti-leukemia drugs resulted in "extensive DNA degradation." BUT (good ol? DNP to the rescue!), "Preincubation with dinitrophenol abolished the effect?"

"[Dependence of the nature of the action of metabolic inhibitors on ribosomal RNA synthesis in Ehrlich ascites carcinoma cells on cell integrity]" [Article in Russian] Akhlynina TV, Buzhurina IM, Panov MA, Rozovskaia IA, Chernaia NG. DNP actually inhibits the synthesis of RNA in carcinoma cells. In other words, it helps cancerous cells commit suicide by neutering themselves. "Ribosomal RNA (rRNA) synthesis in the intact Ehrlich ascite carcinoma cells is selectively inhibited by papaverin (ED50 = 0.01 mM), 2,4-dinitrophenol (DPN; ED50 = 5 microM), and actinomycin D (ED50 = 0.1 microgram/ml)."

"Autocatabolism of surface macromolecules shed by human melanoma cells." Bystryn JC, Perlstein J. Cancer Res 1982 Jun;42(6):2232-7. This study finds that DNP helps melanoma cells die (autocatabolize) while other cells are unaffected.

http://www.geocities.com/byggdegstor/dnpforside - tons of research, including medical studies. Excerpts:

DNP does not cause liver damage: "Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment." (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation ? 1996 Robert Ames)

Also: "Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney. Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys."

"Dinitrophenol has almost no action on the blood cholesterol. (Grant and Schube)."

"it doesn't seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys."

"Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system...dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart."

"Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine."

"dinitrophenol offers this precious advantage that the cessation of its use at the slightest appearance of signs indicating an imminence of intoxication results immediately in the arrest of those symptoms." (Professor Pouchet)."


Interestingly, one medical theory on a health ADVANTAGE of DNP is that the slight increase in thermogenic temperature simulates the fever a body induces during a viral attack. The body increases itsheat to protect organs but kill viruses, and some theorize that DNP can do the same thing, thus killing viruses in the body. In this mechanism, DNP may have an immune-enhancing effect.
 
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My recommendation for where to start dosing is the following:

1) If you're using a different DNP product than you did on your last cycle, then treat it like it was your first cycle. This means starting at the lowest dose possible and slowly working up, just like you did with the cycle you described above. This is because you probably don't know how accurately dosed your new product is, and you want to slowly increase the dose in case it's overdosed compared to what you were taking before.

2) If you're using the same DNP product, then drop one to two doses below the highest dose you used during your last cycle. This is because as a DNP cycle goes on, you become more tolerant to it, so a dose that was fine at the end of a cycle is probably a little too high to start with.

liteweight , if you were alternating between 300 and 400mg at the end of your last cycle, and if you're using the same DNP product as before, you shoud be fine starting your cycle at 200mg/day. 300mg/day would probably be alright, but when in doubt, always err on the side of caution. I'd start at 200mg/day and work up from there.

Hope that helps,
Conciliator

That helps very much! I was thinking along the same lines, but just wanted to be sure. It is the same product. Ordered at the same time. Thanks Conc. :cool:
 
Only prefilled caps availible(Oslo, Norway). DNP mixed with some anti oxydant, so that you have zero idea how much dnp is actually in the caps.

Could possibly be the dumbest idea ever..
 
After reading this tread, it`s tempting to do dnp one more time.

However the only dnp availible are some underground caps with 50% dnp and 50% anti oxydants (200mg + 200mg), IF it is measured correctly that is.. Has to be the worst idea for a product ever.

Just had some complaining to do about that. That`s all.
 
However the only dnp availible are some underground caps with 50% dnp and 50% anti oxydants (200mg + 200mg), IF it is measured correctly that is.. Has to be the worst idea for a product ever.
What, do you expect to get tiny size 4 or 5 capsules that contain only DNP? Even then, the capsules could vary in content depending on how much DNP was packed into them.

The fact that there is a filler is not the worst idea ever. It's a smart idea, as it allows for a more even distribution of DNP (as a mixture) across a group of capsules.
 
Even then, the capsules could vary in content depending on how much DNP was packed into them.

But then I (me personally) would be able to weigh the dnp by itself.

Last time I bought dnp powder (moist). I dried it, weighed it (day doses), and THEN added a filler (cornflower). Felt a lot safer that way, by doing everything myself.
 
I am on my 2nd cycle of DNP. The first cycle was just over a year ago. It worked extremely well and to get the last little bit for summer, I decided to do it again. From the first cycle, I don't remember DNP having any effect on my muscle recovery. Does it? For some reason, since the start of this cycle, any body part that I work is extremely sore & tight the following two days. Almost feels like I havent lifted in a long time. I get this doing the same exercises, at the same weight (or lighter) than I was doing while off my cycle. I just can't figure it out. It seems that the only thing that has changed in my routine was the introduction of the DNP. Do you think that the DNP is causing this?

BTW, I am 14 days in on a 25 day cycle. Taking 400mgs every day.
 
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I am on my 2nd cycle of DNP. The first cycle was just over a year ago. It worked extremely well and to get the last little bit for summer, I decided to do it again. From the first cycle, I don't remember DNP having any effect on my muscle recovery. Does it? For some reason, since the start of this cycle, any body part that I work is extremely sore & tight the following two days. Almost feels like I havent lifted in a long time. I get this doing the same exercises, at the same weight (or lighter) than I was doing while off my cycle. I just can't figure it out. It seems that the only thing that has changed in my routine was the introduction of the DNP. Do you think that the DNP is causing this?

BTW, I am 14 days in on a 25 day cycle. Taking 400mgs every day.
I experience the same thing. I think it's normal. It' probably has to do with decreased glycogen levels from the DNP. For example, people who do CKDs like Lyle McDonald's UD2.0 often report greater-than-nromal soreness after a glycogen depletion workout. There's also the fact that you're in a caloric deficit, which compromises recovery compared to being in a caloric surplus.
 
I experience the same thing. I think it's normal. It' probably has to do with decreased glycogen levels from the DNP. For example, people who do CKDs like Lyle McDonald's UD2.0 often report greater-than-nromal soreness after a glycogen depletion workout. There's also the fact that you're in a caloric deficit, which compromises recovery compared to being in a caloric surplus.

Ok cool. Glad to hear that it is not something out of the ordinary. I hit my triceps pretty hard on Tuesday and they HURT today. Wasn't over the top, but they got a good workout. Today, if I bump something, I wanted to scream. Typically I can feel a good workout a couple of days later, but nothing to the point of pain. I also didn't remember this on my first cycle. Thanks for the info. :)
 
Hello. I am new to this thread and relatively new to this board. I have been researching DNP for a little over a year now. I have just finished reading this incredibly thorough and informative thread. I have a few questions, but would first like to thank Conc for his time, effort, and patience, especially in answering some of the same questions repeatedly.

I am halfway through a 6 week PH cycle. I bulked for the first three weeks and will be going ketogenic and attemting recomp for the last three weeks. I have torem and hCG in place for PCT. I was planning on running clen @ 200mcg/day for week 4 and 5, taking week 6 off, then running clen at the same dosage for the first three weeks of my 4 week PCT, using ketotifen during the third week.

Unless I got ripped off (and I don't think I did) I will be recieving fifty 200mg caps of DNP in the next ten days. It is my understanding that I should wait until PCT is finished to start. Would you advise taking a few weeks off in between, or can I go straight from PCT to my DNP cycle?

Next question: I will also be recieving a large amount of albuterol with my DNP. As well, I have a good supply of ECY caps. I was planning on taking 200mg of DNP for the first two days, then moving up to 400mg/day. This would give me 24 days at 400mg/day. What would be the best way to use the albuterol and the ECY?

I also have ~100grams each of N-acetyl-cysteine, Acetyl-L-carnitine, L-tyrosine, and Taurine. What would be the best way to use these with DNP?

How should l-glutamine be used with DNP (if it should be used at all)?

Finally, is there an upper limit to the safe use of glycerin?

Thank you in advance for your help.

peace.
 
I am halfway through a 6 week PH cycle. I bulked for the first three weeks and will be going ketogenic and attemting recomp for the last three weeks. I have torem and hCG in place for PCT. I was planning on running clen @ 200mcg/day for week 4 and 5, taking week 6 off, then running clen at the same dosage for the first three weeks of my 4 week PCT, using ketotifen during the third week.
200mcg/day? Why would you run the clen at such a high dose? There's no reason to risk damaging your heart, while at the same time rapidly desensitizing yourself to the clen in a matter of days. Start out at 20 or, even better, 10 mcg/day and slowly increase.

I'd run the clen (and ketotifen) during the last 3 weeks of the PH cycle. That's a good time to be dieting, since androgen levels will be high. I wouldn't run the clen during PCT if it's part of a cutting protocol, since you don't want to be dieting during PCT. Give yourself a good 4-6 weeks after the PH cycle to recover before you start cutting again. However, if you're planning on taking the clen during PCT for it's anti-catabolic effect, then that's fine. Just be sure you're eating plenty of calories and not dieting. During PCT, androgen levels are low and you want stay as anabolic as possible.

I'd run the hCG during the last 3 weeks of the PH cycle and then maybe 1 week into your PCT. 250-300 IU 2x/wk is a good protocol to prevent testicular dysfunction from occuring in the first place (as opposed to taking an assload of hCG all at the start of PCT, which is less than optimal).

Toremifene will work for PCT, though nolva or clomid would probably be better for blocking estrogen at the HTPA and promoting recovery.
Unless I got ripped off (and I don't think I did) I will be recieving fifty 200mg caps of DNP in the next ten days. It is my understanding that I should wait until PCT is finished to start. Would you advise taking a few weeks off in between, or can I go straight from PCT to my DNP cycle?
Either take the DNP during the last 3 weeks of your PH cycle (along with the clen), or wait until a good 4-6 weeks after PCT. Clen and DNP complement each other very well, so if you want to stack them while you're dieting, go for it.
Next question: I will also be recieving a large amount of albuterol with my DNP. As well, I have a good supply of ECY caps. I was planning on taking 200mg of DNP for the first two days, then moving up to 400mg/day. This would give me 24 days at 400mg/day. What would be the best way to use the albuterol and the ECY?
Albuterol will do the same thing as clen for all intents and purposes. I like running EC along with clen/albuterol, since EC adds energy and appetite suppression to the superior fat mobilization of the clen.

When you first start taking DNP, stay at the lowest dose you have (in this case 200mg/day) for a minimum of 4 days, since it accumulates. Watch your body temperature. If it's under 99.1 and the side effects don't feel excessive, you can increase your dose after those 4 days. Keep watching your temperature. If it ever goes over 99.1 or if the side effects feel excessive, you need to lower your dose. You may find that 200mg/day is the safe and comfortable dose for you. Or, you may find that it's 600mg/day if you're particularly tolerant (or if your DNP is underdosed). There's a lot of variation in individual sensitivity (and a lot of underdosed DNP products on the market). Just make sure to stay at each dose for 4-5 days before increasing it, while monitoring temperature and side effects.
I also have ~100grams each of N-acetyl-cysteine, Acetyl-L-carnitine, L-tyrosine, and Taurine. What would be the best way to use these with DNP?
NAC is a great antioxidant and is probably also anti-catabolic. I'd take a good 500-1500 mg per day. The others probably aren't going to do anything for you in terms of body composition. You could take 1-3g/day of ALCAR for the potential increase in clarity and focus. Tyrosine might help with CNS recovery and can be taken along with ephedrine and caffeine to potentiate the stimuant effect. Taurine would be good to take each day when you're on clen, since it prevents cramps (common on clen) and is cardioprotective.
How should l-glutamine be used with DNP (if it should be used at all)?

How should l-glutamine be used with DNP (if it should be used at Finally, is there an upper limit to the safe use of glycerin?
Most glutamine is used by the gut, so it never makes it into your body. I take it occasionally for GI health. A large dose before bed might increase your natural GH spike. Research doesn't support any effect on recovery, glycogen synthesis, anti-catabolic effect, etc. In my opinion, it's a hyped supplement that doesn't appear to do much for bodybuilders. If you do take it, I'd take it before bed.

Hope that helps,
Conciliator
 
Thanks very much. That helps quite a bit.

Previous experience has taught me that I have a rather high tolerance to clen. I like the late Dan Duchaine's reasoning that one ought to simply take the highest dose one can tolerate until receptor down-grade kicks in.

If my DNP arrives in time, I think I will try using it during the last three weeks of my cycle. I've got enough SD and PH Tren to extend the cycle a week or so. I also have a bottle of PPlex. What are your thoughts on throwing that into the mix for the last three weeks? My thoughts were that this rather potent mix of androgens would allow me to keep my calories pretty low while maintaining LBM.
I was thinking:


4 days at 200mg DNP, then 400mg for 21 days (titrating as necessary)
SD at 40mg/day
PH Tren @ 80mg/day
PPlex @ 30mg/day
Clen @ 100-200mcg/day, using ketotifen during last 7 days
ECY stack at 20/200/8mg 3xday
hCG @ 300 IUs 2 x weekly for four weeks

I'll also being starting the torem on day 22. I figure I'll run the ECY straight thru PCT and start the clen back up during the second week of PCT for it's anti-catabolic effects, after taking a week off, but not dieting during PCT.

I realize PP and SD are both methyls, but am comfortable with running them together for three weeks and have all my liver support in place.

Remaining questions:

I assume there is cross-tolerance between clen and albuterol. Is this true?

Is there an upper limit to the amount of glycerol one can safely consume?

Regarding glutamine, my understanding was that a great deal of the substance is used by the gut to rebuild the intestinal lining. By providing large amounts of it to the gut, you create a glutamine-sparing effect, keeping your body from having to harvest glutamine from your muscles. I know personally that I have seen improvements in my recovery ability and my immune function from using it. Charles Poliquin is quite a strong advocate of high-dose glutamine and ALCAR, and he is usually pretty sharp about such things. I mean, there's got to be a limit to the amount of glutamine your gut can use, right? Your body doesn't have trouble absorbing the stuff, so if we satisfy the gut's requirements, could we not then get the extra into our bloodstream?

Anyway, thank you very much for your time and information. As I mentioned, I am new to this board, but you are an obvious asset to it.
 
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Glad I found out about this site, better advice and no hostility against DNP. I'm currently on my 11day of D's 250mg DNP. My current progress so far and dosing:

Started at 160lbs roughly 14-16% bf, 5'4:D

Currently on 7th week of 100mg Test P eod, just finished Fina 100mg eod yesterday and would continue cycle for another 6 weeks.
1-5 1 cap
6-11 2 caps
No major drop in weight, only 5 lbs so far. Leaning out though.

Carb cycling -50g, 100, 150, 200 g Carbs rotation around 1800-2200 calories

Keeping up with lifts and even adding poundage actually squatted 355lbs for 4reps, only 2 reps behind my max, but this might change after discontinuation of Tren

Cardio sucked, could still do 45min intervals between 2.5-3.5mph at 12incline
Sweating has increased a lot. Dropping bullet sized sweats and drenched shirt and shorts every time.

Supplements are just basic vit b12, multi, glycerol 3 tbs a day, and lots of water.
Temperature remained constant ranging from 36.1-36.7 C

So far so good, no major issues and will stick to 2 caps until day 21. I just hope I am holding water and feel the whoosh effect after discontinuation of DNP or all the sweating and increase in laundry would be all for naught:(

Any inputs to help further fat loss is appreciated, or if I am doing something wrong please let me know.
 
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