2,4-DiNitroPhenol [DNP]

Heretic

New Member
Credit to the gods that wrote this... :)

HOW TO NOT FUCK UP DNP:

Since some guys have been playing around and disrespecting DNP and then griping to the forums about the painful results, we need to make this VERY specific and VERY correct so that people won't keep jumping for DNP out of curiosity, or without the willpower they need to operate this respondibly. So here are my experienced guidelines to using it the RIGHT way.

FIRST GUIDLINE: Dosing. Use ONLY 200mg a day for the first four days. I don't care that you don't "feel" anything yet and you wanna bump it up. DNP accumulates in the body, and not "feeling" something means NOTHING. It's there, and it's working (the effect on metabolism begins within two hours of the first dose!). Four days will let you test your tolerance: do you have an allergy? Does it give you a rash? etc.
Only after those four days do you bump it up, by 200mg a day. The average dose is 400-600/day, and more than that gets a little severe. A full gram is the highest dose I've heard anyone use. I've used that much, and it's hell. I like to stay around 600 a day, which is HOT but safe and effective. Take caps even hours apart through the day, ending about 4-5 PM.

SECOND GUIDLINE...How to eat on DNP. This is purely personal experience, because some guys like to carb-deplete *before* using DNP (then eat carbs as usual while on), and other guys like a low-carb approach throughout. Both are fine. Using DNP is the only time that fructose is a desireable cutting carb, because it keeps the liver replentished. That reduces lethargy and spares muscle.
Be aware that eating high-carb foods WILL increase the heat sensation within an hour, and last about 2 hours. That means don't eat carbs before bed unless you want those night sweats to be even WORSE.
Personally, I ate whatever the hell I wanted! IHOP, chinese, fajitas...Yes, I burned hot, but I still lost 1.5 pounds every 2 days. Keep protein HIGH for muscles' sake, and try it yourself.

Foods I suggest including:
Blueberry yogurt. Blueberries are excellent antioxidants, and yogurt cultures help with digestive function, gas, and stool consistency (disgustingly soft stools are common during DNP).
Oregano-based foods. Oregano is perhaps one of the most potent antioxidants around,a nd one spoonful counts as a vegetable serving. See this article
Pineapple - I've found that pineapple helps alleviate those "DNP Blues". The fructose helps, and pineapple enzymes aid in protein digestion.
V8 - one 12-ounce can supplies six servings of veggies, concentrated as an excellent source of antioxidants, lycopene, and recovery of electrolytes.
Oatmeal - high-fiber foods are necessary. You'll find out why around, oh, day 5 or so. Trust me.


THIRD GUIDELINE...Supplements and DNP. I suggest:
ECA - DNP is not a stimulant. To keep energy high and aid in fat loss, use an ECA. Some advisors suggest that regular ephedrine is preferable to norephedrine because of the more direct "hit" of energy.
Prohormones - perfectly fine on DNP. I used 1-AD just to help keep strength and muscle up, and it worked fine. No problems here. You won't GROW muscle on DNP, but it'll help with strength and protection.
Obvious stuff - multivitamin, ZMA, etc.
Biotest PowerDrive - No, I'm not pimping Biotest. But PowerDrive is an excellent pre-workout mixture that actually works. Plus it's low-carb (only 15 calories total), so it won't cause carb-heat in the middle of your workout.

Antioxidants - I'm giving my own personal list, and why I use them:
Alpha Lipoic Acid - aids in fat management and blood sugar, and an excellent antioxidant.
Grape seed extract
Syntrax Radox
Green Tea
Inositol - mood enhancement, antioxidant, and muscle support. 1 gram/3x day
Ellagic acid - protects cell DNA/RNA from damage by free radicals, and may even atack cancerous cells. 400mg/twice a day
Fruit antioxidants - beyond-a-century's powder of high-potency natural fruit anti's. 1 gram, 2-3x day.
Trimethylglyceine - antioxidant, helps move fat and blood lipids into the liver and out of the body. 500mg, 2x day.
Vitamins E and C

Supplements NOT to use:
Any medications that suppress energy. No allergy meds, antidepressants, muscle relaxers, or beta blockers. DNP will have you low as it is; don't worsen your body's energy by taking something that suppresses you further.

DRUGS - Sheesh, you'd think I wouldn't have to mention this, but two idiots in particular (right here on this forum) recently affirmed that some people still just don't get it. NO alcohol (not even "moderate"), NO ecstasy, NO GHB, etc. If you don't have the willpower to forego these habits, DNP is not for you.

Syntrax Swole - a personal discovery. I tried Swole while on DNP...once. Two hours of hell, feeling inside-out.

FOURTH GUIDELINE...working out on DNP. Keep lifting short, 30-40 minutes. DNP works very well, causing your body to use 150% or more the calories per action you'd normally use. That means DON'T try to repeat your usual workouts. Drop to moderate weights, 8-12 reps, not to failure, and with plenty of walking rest between sets. You are NOT going to grow muscle on DNP, so don't use your usual heavy routine. Since DNP can cause light-headedness and heat dizzyness, you have my permission to skip squats in favor of leg presses this time.

Cardio is a controversial one. My advice - do NOT do cardio on high doses of DNP (600mg or more). It's dangerous and counterproductive. Below that amount, some cardio is fine, but keep it to 20 minutes and not at full-gallop. Remember, DNP will drain water from your quickly, causing you to leech out minerals, vitamins, and salts. Don't overdo it.

During exercise, consume at least 1 liter of water per 30 minutes of work, whether you're thirsty or not. DNP is evil in the way it blunts thirst, while at the same time doing the cruel trick of bloating your body with water WHILE dehydrating you from water in your organs. MAKE yourself drink. Always folllow DNP exercise with antioxidants, carbs, and this is a good time to use your multivitamin.

Don't feel embarrassed about poor workouts. Just this morjning I did a workout with a whopping nine sets (wimp!) before calling it quits. Listen to your body, and let it tell you when enough's enough; don't guage workouts by what you *usually* can do otherwise.

Here's my research. This is AMAZING! Not only has not a single test found it to be carcinogenic, but test after tyest after test find that DNP actually ATTACKS cancer cells, and helps anti-cancer medications work better, and helps anti-leukemia medications work without destroying cell DNA, and suppresses tumor growth by 20-50%. The summaries are all right here, friends. Karma me up!

DNP is Ames negative, and does not promote tumors. See for yourself at http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/dinitrop.html (2,4-Dinitrophenol | Technology Transfer Network Air Toxics Web site | US EPA) reports on health risks. While there have not been human studies, animal studies found no cancers caused by DNP administration. It is considered a toxin because it causes nausea, sweating, and weight loss.

Cyberiron.com reports on halth risks from external exposue. In other words, don?t get it in your eyes, or on your skin if you?re allergic. Pretty elementary stuff.

http://www.ebec2000.com/abstracts/056.htm This animal study documents a 64% increase in metabolism. "These findings confirm that DNP effectively increases metabolic rate..." Duh.

Biosource A PDF file about an antidote to DNP.

http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage

"Comparative study of toxicity of 4-nitrophenol and 2,4-dinitrophenol in newborn and young rats." Koizumi M, Yamamoto Y, Ito Y, Takano M, Enami T, Kamata E, Hasegawa R. Division of Risk Assessment, National Institute of Health Sciences, 1-18-1 Kamiyoga, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-8501, Japan. This study found that DNP can induce death in overdosed amounts, but that up to that point no toxicity was evident, nor were there any abnormalities in physical development.

"Phenol toxicity and conjugation in human colonic epithelial cells." Pedersen G, Brynskov J, Saermark T. Dept of Medical Gastroenterology, Herlev University Hospital, Copenhagen, Denmark.. This study found that DNP has a toxic effect on cells of the colon, with "toxic" defined in two ways: first, it interfered with metabolism (this we know?it?s the intended effect of DNP users!) and second, it interfered with bowel inflammation (not a health risk. This is caused by osmotic effect, with the worst results being softened stools and gas).

"Mechanisms of bacterial resistance to macrolide antibiotics." Nakajima Y. Division of Microbiology, Hokkaido College of Pharmacy, 7-1 Katsuraoka-cho, Otaru, Hokkaido 047-0264, Japan. This study found that antibiotic-resistant bacteria could be thwarted with DNP. "the extent of the accumulated drug in a resistant cell increases as much as that in a susceptible cell in the presence of an uncoupling agent such as?2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP)."

"Absence of Crabtree effect in human melanoma cells adapted to growth at low pH: reversal by respiratory inhibitors." Burd R, Wachsberger PR, Biaglow JE, Wahl ML, Lee I, Leeper DB. Departments of Radiation Oncology, Kimmel Cancer Center, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107, USA. Check this out?DNP actually helps make melanoma tumors easier to attack by increasing ratio of oxygen consumption to lactic acid production, while glycolysis remains the same. "Therefore, tumor acute acidification and oxygenation can be achieved by exposure?"


"New insights in the cellular processing of platinum antitumor compounds, using fluorophore-labeled platinum complexes and digital fluorescence microscopy."
Molenaar C, Teuben JM, Heetebrij RJ, Tanke HJ, Reedijk J. Department of Molecular Cell Biology, Leiden University Medical Centre, The Netherlands. DNP is used as a control in tests of antitumor cells because it does NOT bind to cell DNA, nor promote tumors, yet its staining abilities enable tracking of the uptake of antitumor drugs.

Specific inhibition of breast cancer cells by antisense poly-DNP-oligoribonucleotides and targeted apoptosis." Ru K, Taub ML, Wang JH. Department of Biochemistry, State University of New York, Buffalo 14260-3000, USA Are you ready for this? DNP actually INHIBITS (!!!) breast cancers! Yes, not only does it NOT promote cancers, it?s being recognized as a cancer-fighter/blocker. "Two membrane-permeable and RNase-resistant antisense poly-2'-O-(2,4-dinitrophenyl)-oligoribonucleotides (poly-DNP-RNAs) have been synthesized as inhibitors of human breast cancer?fluorescence assay indicates that the targeted antisense inhibition by poly-DNP-RNAs leads to apoptosis of SK-Br-3 cells but does not affect nontumorigenic MCF-10A cells. The control poly-DNP-RNAs with random or sense nucleotide sequence are completely inactive." Plain English? DNP can be synthesized as an anti-cancer compound, because tests show that it blocks mutagens but does NOT affect non-mutagenic (healthy) cells, and has no RNA effects on them.

"Heat shock protein induction by certain chemical stressors is correlated with their cytotoxicity, lipophilicity and protein-denaturing capacity." Neuhaus-Steinmetz U, Rensing L. Institute of Cell Biology, Biochemistry and Biotechnology, NW II University of Bremen, Germany. The thermic effect of DNP induces protein synthesis (heat shock protein, or HSP, synthesis). In fact, it?s quite GOOD at it: "ASA, DNP and CCCP induced HSP at lower concentrations than substances with a similar lipophilicity?"

"Comparative effects of the metabolic inhibitors 2,4-dinitrophenol and iodoacetate on mouse neuroblastoma cells in vitro." Andres MI, Repetto G, Sanz P, Repetto M.
National Institute of Toxicology, Seville, Spain. In this study, DNP?s observed effect was an increase in metabolism (duh!), while the other toxins compared to it had harmful in vitro effects but no increase in metabolism.

"Inhibition of uncoupled respiration in tumor cells. A possible role of mitochondrial Ca2+ efflux." Gabai VL.Medical Radiology Research Center, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Obninsk. DNP not only does not cause tumors, but it inhibited their respiration by 20-25% compared to controls.

"Amsacrine-induced lesions in DNA and their modulation by novobiocin and 2,4-dinitrophenol." Shibuya ML, Buddenbaum WE, Don AL, Utsumi H, Suciu D, Kosaka T, Elkind MM. Department of Radiology and Radiation Biology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523. In this study, researchers found that DNP abrogates?or disrupts?cytotoxicity in hamsters (using cancerous cells). They expected to find that DNP would interfere with anticancer treatments, but instead found that DNP increased their effects. They state, though, that they cannot claim a proven effect of DNP on anticancer treatments yet, although they do agree that treatment with DNP actually enhanced the effects of the DNA regenerative therapy of anticancer chemotherapy.

"Induction of endonucleolytic DNA cleavage in human acute myelogenous leukemia cells by etoposide, camptothecin, and other cytotoxic anticancer drugs: a cautionary note." Kaufmann SH. Oncology Center, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland 21205. The authors warn that certain anti-leukemia drugs resulted in "extensive DNA degradation." BUT (good ol? DNP to the rescue!), "Preincubation with dinitrophenol abolished the effect?"

"[Dependence of the nature of the action of metabolic inhibitors on ribosomal RNA synthesis in Ehrlich ascites carcinoma cells on cell integrity]" [Article in Russian] Akhlynina TV, Buzhurina IM, Panov MA, Rozovskaia IA, Chernaia NG. DNP actually inhibits the synthesis of RNA in carcinoma cells. In other words, it helps cancerous cells commit suicide by neutering themselves. "Ribosomal RNA (rRNA) synthesis in the intact Ehrlich ascite carcinoma cells is selectively inhibited by papaverin (ED50 = 0.01 mM), 2,4-dinitrophenol (DPN; ED50 = 5 microM), and actinomycin D (ED50 = 0.1 microgram/ml)."

"Autocatabolism of surface macromolecules shed by human melanoma cells." Bystryn JC, Perlstein J. Cancer Res 1982 Jun;42(6):2232-7. This study finds that DNP helps melanoma cells die (autocatabolize) while other cells are unaffected.

http://www.geocities.com/byggdegstor/dnpforside - tons of research, including medical studies. Excerpts:

DNP does not cause liver damage: "Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment." (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation ? 1996 Robert Ames)

Also: "Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney. Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys."

"Dinitrophenol has almost no action on the blood cholesterol. (Grant and Schube)."

"it doesn't seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys."

"Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system...dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart."

"Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine."

"dinitrophenol offers this precious advantage that the cessation of its use at the slightest appearance of signs indicating an imminence of intoxication results immediately in the arrest of those symptoms." (Professor Pouchet)."


Interestingly, one medical theory on a health ADVANTAGE of DNP is that the slight increase in thermogenic temperature simulates the fever a body induces during a viral attack. The body increases itsheat to protect organs but kill viruses, and some theorize that DNP can do the same thing, thus killing viruses in the body. In this mechanism, DNP may have an immune-enhancing effect.
 
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this might seem like a dumb question...but what is the deal with DNP and tanning?

I ask because one of the main things to monitor while on DNP is body temperature and controlling the external environment as best as possible, i.e. avoiding the heat outside etc. When you're tanning the bed is going to make you hot, albiet for only 10 t o 15 minutes at a time. Could this be a problem to do both or is it no big deal?
 
this might seem like a dumb question...but what is the deal with DNP and tanning?

I ask because one of the main things to monitor while on DNP is body temperature and controlling the external environment as best as possible, i.e. avoiding the heat outside etc. When you're tanning the bed is going to make you hot, albiet for only 10 t o 15 minutes at a time. Could this be a problem to do both or is it no big deal?

I would not do it. It could risk De-Hydration.
 
Few questions...

First I'd like to thank all of you for this wonderful thread, particularly of course to Conciliator for his unprecedented expertise on all things regarding the yellow powder.

I'd just like to ask some (or rather lot) questions:

1) IMHO to me seems Pyruvate (regarding fat loss) like just another questionable supplement; are you guys really sure it's doing any good preventing a cataract?

2) Some recommend taking anti-allergens (I'm not from US, so I don't really know Benadryl, for me it would be specifically cetirizini-dihydrochloridum) preventively before any problems come up but some discourage it. To me it seems like pretty neat idea not to actually wait for the rash to show up; what is the actual reason against?

3) What I couldn't make from anything I read is - hypothetically, are the (DNP induced) cataracts permanent or not? (In today's medicine, not 30's)

4) Do I understand right that under DNP you can take Clen for however long you want without getting used to it? Like a month or so?

5) What about ehm *cough cough* little blue pill? Sex is probably like cardio (i.e. be careful) but is Viagra an absolute no go?

6) Finally OT one for the Great one (Conciliator) himself: What's your personal (professional) opinion on Yohimbine regarding fat loss? Provided I watch out for my pulse and pressure. If yes, rather on DNP cycle or off (between)? Btw. I'm talking about commercially available 1200 mg per tab (2% Yohimbine).
6b) Same question for Arginine (1000 mg per tab)...

Many thanks for any opinion, keep up the good work (thread) guys...
 
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And if it's not too cheeky 6c) Arginine?

I'm asking because I liked your findings about Glutamine (which came to me as a quite a surprise).
Just a quick "Probably worth it / Waste of money" is entirely sufficient...


Btw. happy holidays to everyone! [:o)]
 
Sorry, I'm an idiot. I meant

6c) Bioperine

but I already found on M&M that you suggest it's not a good idea. Fair enough.

Btw. the more I read about DNP the more I'm intrigued - and more determined to use it regularly. Which frightens me because longterm abuse (of any meds basically) is something I always rather wanted to avoid.

Do you have any advice regarding longterm usage threats? I'll probably ditch the Clen (heavy on heart) but other necessary supplements like Vitamin C or E can surely be used continuously (even in such doses). Is there something to watch out for? Will the thyroid glands be really OK with several DNP cycles a year?

PS: It quite seems like I'm spamming. I'll stop now. ;-)
 
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I ran a long term cycle once. 25 days, 400 a day. I got Mono at about day 20 so lets just say your normal Flu like symptoms were a tad worse...

But it was still fine. I tried 600 a couple days, those were bad, but long term my blood work was fine and I was. Supps this time were water only really. Its fine.
 
DNP can cause neuropathy, in case anyone cares. I have never heard anyone mention it, and because of this, I understand that I am probably a rare case, but I think you all should know every risk associated with any drug or chemical you take.

There have been studies in rats confirming neuropathy. After suffering in extreme dehabilitating pain for the past year (and having seen 5 neurologists, and having been seen at two different academic schools), a neurologist finally discovered that my past DNP usage is what caused my now-permanent nerve damage and axonal sensorimotor polyneuropathy. It probably doesn't sound that bad, but there have been days at a time where I have not even been able to stand up due to the pain.

However, I was still using DNP on and off long after my symptoms first started. I just want you all to be really careful, and if any health problems arise while you are taking DNP, even if you are not aware of it being a possible complication, stop taking it and get your symptom checked out. It is a great chemical, but in retrospect, it was not at all worth it to me. I'd much rather have my myelin sheath back.

Stay safe everyone.
 
eca helps, will power helps,
I find drinking lots of water helps to curb appetitite.
Keep low calorie stuff around,
sugar free candy helps me
Mostly I just have to tough it out since Im stuck driving in my car for hours with no temptations..
Good Luck
 
ECA and a little something I call willpower. The beauty of DNP, unlike any diet drug or weight loss program, is that it can out-preform a bad diet. Thats why some guys can eat anything. But keep this inmind, more toxins means you will feel worse, if you take more you will be more hungry, and you will sweat more.

I test DNP each time I get ahold of it. I dont always use it all, and I vary cycles. When I take more I find myself eating less (More than my normal high dose, the point where you can feel the heat and handle it) and I lose rapidly. I normally am so busy drinking water and drying myself off to eat, keeping in mind I continue my normal work schedule.

The best combination to prevent hunger and urges is to take plenty of EC with a Soda (That would be the 'C') of the diet variety. I feel better with pop, keep my hands off of junk and get the sugar 'fix' most crave. Some people suggest candy and regular soda/more v8 but the empty calories ddefeat the purpose of DNP all together.
 
How about taking liver detox pills (some of the ingredients are...burbock root, milk thistle seed, cardamom, artichoke leaf,etc.) while on DNP...would it put a strain on your liver?

Thanks.
 
"DNP can cause neuropathy, in case anyone cares. I have never heard anyone mention it, and because of this, I understand that I am probably a rare case, but I think you all should know every risk associated with any drug or chemical you take."

is it getting worse or has it stopped now that your dnp usage has ?

S.B.C

Author of the SoreButtCheeks steroid blog.

( Google SoreButtCheeks to find it )
 
How about taking liver detox pills (some of the ingredients are...burbock root, milk thistle seed, cardamom, artichoke leaf,etc.) while on DNP...would it put a strain on your liver?

Thanks.
DNP does not appear to be hepatotoxic under normal use. Here's one of the best quotes on the topic, from Simkins in 1937. He ran one of the most extensive clinical trials on DNP in humans to date:
LIVER FUNCTION

It is easily conceivable why dinitrophenol should be suspected of being toxic to the liver. It is closely related chemically to trinitrophenol (picric acid) and other compounds that are liver poisons. Animal experiments in general show no toxic effects on the liver.38 Post-mortem studies of these animals showed no significant damage to the liver following repeated medication with nonfatal, fever-producing doses and with doses ultimately becoming fatal.39 In human beings the reports are rather meager, but they bear out the view that dinitrophenol is not a hepatotoxin, except in isolated instances.40 Two cases of poisoning with fatal termination showed moderate congestion, a slight detachment hepatic cells from one another, and slight fatty infiltration in the periphery of the lobules.41

Dinitrophenol often discolors the sclerae and even the skin, thus producing the clinical appearance of jaundice.42 This occurred, in a marked degree, in seven cases of the present series. The discoloration varies considerably from time to time and usually disappears gradually, even though the medication is continued. To avoid error in the determination of the icteric index, the blood plasma must be acidified.

Tainter, Cutting and Stockton 43 reported a series of cases in which icteric index and van den Bergh studies were done (table 1). Their results show no liver damage. In the present series, fifteen patients were carefully studied with the icteric index, van den Bergh and bromsulfalein tests. A study of table 1 discloses no liver damage even after months of intensive medication. If liver damage was present, one would expect the blood bilirubin to increase in proportion to the amount of drug ingested. No such relationship is observed. One patient developed, in the fourth week of medication, an icteric index of 20 and a weakly positive, direct, delayed van den Bergh reaction. The bromsulfalein test was negative. Complete studies at eighteen and at twenty weeks in this case revealed no liver damage. Another patient took the drug almost continuously for eighty-one weeks (consuming a total of 245 Gm.) and showed no liver damage.

The question of delayed liver damage has been inadequately studied. The only report in the literature 43 is one that deals with six patients who showed an average bilirubin count of 0.24 units (0.15-0.40) after the drug had been discontinued for thirty-six weeks. In conclusion, it seems quite justifiable to state that dinitrophenol, in therapeutic dosage, is not a hepatotoxin, except in the extremely rare case in which there may exist an idiosyncrasy that may mediate damage to the liver.

And from the ATSDR's extensive toxicological report:
[After a lengthly recounting of the history of case reports]

In an extensive clinical study of 159 people taking about 3 mg/kg/day for 22-89 days, results of icteric index determinations, Van den Bergh tests, and bromsulphalein (BSP) retention tests revealed no evidence of liver damage in the 14 or 15 patients to whom the tests were given (Simkins 1937a, 1937b). The BSP test measures the ability of the liver to remove this dye from the blood after intravenous injection. It is a sensitive measure of liver disease in the absence of hyperbilirubinemia (which interferes with BSP measurement) (Berkow and Fletcher 1992). Retention of BSP in the blood is an indication of decreased blood flow, biliary obstruction, or hepatic cell damage. However, the use of BSP is currently limited because of toxic side effects.

Thus, while some evidence of hepatic effects was found in some patients taking 2,4-DNP, the possibility of pre-existing liver pathology could not be determined. The lack of hepatic effects in animals suggests that the liver is not a sensitive target organ for the toxicity of 2,4-DNP.
Hope that helps,
Conciliator
 
so it sounds like you shouldn't use dnp while on cycle, correct? or atleast there would be no strength/muscle growth and it would be a waste of aas?
 
Wow this has been a great thread I have been researching DNP for over a year here and there and finally got some. I found this to be the best info on DNP and feel better about using it!! I look forward to starting it tomorrow!
 
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