MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Brewly - Worldwide Marketplace

BigBaldBeardGuy said:
You didn’t call us liars?? C’mon.

You must be autistic. You’re terrible at communicating with people. Maybe have DO handle the customer service end of this business.
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Hey man.. nothings wrong with being socially autistic, i just don't get much pussy tbh but overall i think i'm a pretty upstanding guy
 
bigdeadweight said:
I tend to stay quiet on here, but having just read through this thread I feel like i need to say something.

First off I think this is an interesting idea, however I have too many concerns to consider using brewly myself

First off i can see the attraction for both sellers and buyers, but only once the site is successful and has scale. At that point as a buyer i have some additional simplicity by being able to order from multiple sellers in one transaction, plus I have a large history of reviews, feedback etc on each seller. And for the sellers they get access to a large pool of potential customers. However, today you have basically an empty site as it is new and not yet successful.

However, on to my concerns -

First, I am here as a drug user, you are here as the middleman to make illegal drug sales take place and cream some profit, and the sellers are here as illegal drug dealers. Like it or not that is what this is. So for myself, I always start off looking for how others are looking to scam me for a quick buck. So I never buy unless there is significant positive long term feedback on a source.

In addition, you are made up of a middleman, DO, and supposed others who refuse to identify themselves. This means I have immediate doubts about the impartiality of your site, even in the long term. For example, DO seems to have carte blanche to approve or reject seller applications. So it would be very easy for him to use this site as a way to only approve those who buy from him. Regardless, he is not impartial, and for me that means I cannot trust his reasoning for approving or rejecting anyone.

Your bullshit filter - you keep posting the screen shot but for me it is no where near complete enough to actually serve any purpose. I could easily find the relevant images of labs and equipment, give you some copy and paste text and i am supposedly now a lab. Unless you have detailed questions about brewing processes and real detail on how they brew, your filter is pretty worthless in my opinion. So to me, you are allowing basically unfiltered access to your platform policed by someone with a conflict of interest. So i think either accept this and say so, or really firm up the process so it is a real vetting process

Algorythmic ranking
This is actually my major problem. I understand your aims, so substances are ranked in the 'best' way for the buyer. However, I think you are massively underestimating how much energy fraudulent sellers will put into gaming this system. If you dont believe me just look up the black hat tactics for gaming amazon and google ranking. These are two of the biggest companies in the world, and they have teams of hundreds working on this, and have to continually update their ranking methods to stay ahead of the frausters.

Reviews
This is one where even amazon can't stop the fraudulent reviews. You say you have to purchase to leave a review, same with amazon, and that hasnt stopped the fraud. here are some examples -

Real sale to real customer - Dear customer, please leave me a 5 star review and send me the link to it and I will send you x, y, z for free (paid for/incentivised reviews are huge problem and even though specifically banned by amazon are still common)

Fake sale - reseller sets up 50 buyer accounts (there are obviously many ways to do this), makes purchases on each account, pays himself so looks genuine, marks each order as shipped but of course doesnt have to ship anything, then a few weeks later leaves glowing reviews from each account.

How do you intend to stop this sort of fraud?

If the biggest companies in the world cannot stop this, I am sorry but I do not believe you will be able to

This is just 2 examples, but check out fakespot and other sites to see how big the problem is on Amazon today

Ranking
I have a few issues here. You are having forced top vendors, but you also claim to rank based on algorythms. Sorry, but these 2 are totally opposed things. I do not trust you (as stated you are made up of a middle man and a drug dealer, your business model is made up of payment for illegal activity, so I in no way believe you are above forcing results in return for payment). You either have totally organic ranking based on real world situation, or you pick and choose. I understand you think you are appeasing meso by saying this was in response to this thread, but for me this just undermines the impartiality of your site even further. Plus who knows what else will influence you to include top sellers in response to criticism from less honest forums then meso

GTG
By having top sellers you are giving them your GTG badge of approval. Same as the early seller specific discounts you had early on. Either do a total full site promo discount on all resellers, or do none, otherwise it 100% comes across as your endorsement of the seller

Face of company
You claim you are not the face of the company, that DO is the face, and you are just the IT/website guy, sorry but if that was the case why do your posts out number DO's by a huge amount?

Sellers leaving / rejoining
You admit a seller left your site, then rejoined, and that deleted all their history. Sorry, but a big no for me, simply leave and come back with a clean slate if you have any negative reviews!!

Forum / moderation
You have stated your forum is unmoderated and also freely admitted you moderate sections of it. Again I do not trust your motives as a profiteering middle man in drug deals. I 100% do not trust you wont use moderation to maximise your profit or do favours for whoever will pay you. For example, a recent quote from you "we push our big name vendors hard. All our orders are going to them at the moment", so no impartiality here. You should make the entire site zero moderation if you want to build trust

Security
I am not a tech guy, so I have no idea on the discussion on site security. I do however not share your confidence that operating out of china, or hosting where steroids are legal will guarantee your and our safety. For example, what if one of your top sellers goes rogue and starts selling heroin, or sex slaves (ok, crazy example I know, but who knows what else these drug dealers are involved in), how sure are you that they will never sell anything that won't pique the interest of LE where either you or your hosting is

Lastly, I believe you could have much more stringent and standardised requirements from your sellers. For example standard reship policy for all of them. I know today, when you are brand new many may refuse, but this is your opportunity to truly offer something better to buyers. And if you wait until you have the scale to demand this, you may find resellers unwilling to backtrack and change.

Sorry for the long post, and I actually think the business model is interesting, so I am not just trying to flame or shout. Perhaps if you can make it work, in a few years, when you have the history etc I will be willing to use you. However, for today my concerns mean I will just wait and watch.
Click to expand...

I appreciate you taking the time to write this up and bringing up some fresh points. I will try to add to some of the responses DO gave. For those just tuning in, here is DO's reply:

DragonOrdnance said:
Any source on right now has been approved with our before-mentioned expectations of our vendor application process. I understand that some sources, such as Apexa, are not on meso and only on SST and other boards, but they pass the check for us with our askings. Why they are not here, I have no idea.

Some people simply don't wish to grow.

As a source, I know a ton of sources who I ask why are they not on Meso (the largest anabolic forum thus far) and they're afraid of the apparent growth it would provide, they like to stick to smaller forums like the rest and minimize their danger. They think the same of Brewly, for now. I know a few source on Brewly have mentioned that if Brewly begins to blow up, they might not stick around. And its understandable.

@bigdeadweight Thanks for the write up, and honestly, very good points to make.

1) I understand that because I back this project, it has an inherent conflict of interest. At first, the remedy to this issue was to stay quiet about my involvement, but I wanted to be upfront about it because something beginning with a lie is just doomed from the start. I have no reason though, to ban anyone who does not buy from me, as I'd like to see the platform flourish and eventually, take my cut. Would I prefer to see my own clients grow? Yes, of course, but others growing still means profit for me, and perhaps easier profit as I don't have to deal with them as much as I do as their supplier.

2) How do we stop review fraud?
You're right, even Amazon can't, but I believe thats due to the sheer size of fraud going on. We'd be a much smaller platform. We have lots of ideas that we've mentioned previously on how to combat this, but I've also mentioned that minimum requirements for users to perhaps leave reviews should be 2+ purchases. Or place users with higher buying power on higher review scale, such as those who have been on the platform longer + buying. Theres tons of ideas floating around, and we're currently testing and theorizing each one.

3) Our top vendor rankings are due to sales, its pretty organic right now.

4) Not sure i understand this gtg discount thing. When we had site wide promos, of course, we send a message to every source to please consider promotions. At the end of the day, we do not have the power to force a source to accept a 10% loss in coupons, and only some wanted to go ahead with the idea.

5)I posted on the brewly account in the very first days myself. I also wrote the draft for the introduction post. Eventually, I wanted to also make it clear that I back this project, as I know new comers here will not see my name. Are you asking whos the face? We are all technically the face. I couldn't for the life of me answer IT related questions, so I'd need Brewly's help in this. You guys would obliterate my asshole lmao.

6) No reviews were posted for this vendor. We'd restore reviews if a vendor does that kinda stuff.

7) Forums has moderation, as in, moderation against selling other drugs, posting bad things, asking questions about meth, etc. But its pretty unmoderated in all other sense. Theres also moderation for going against the category of the subforums, ieg, posting about your wife's dog and how he died in the section of drug use and testing.

8) I'd leave any security questions ultimately for @Brewly as he's top knotch in that sort of thing. As for LE involvement, we have and know what products cannot, absolutely cannot, be sold on our site, due to LE interests. Such as DNP. That will never be sold on Brewly.


9) Do domestic sources ever offer a reshipment policy? I mean, if something is wrong with your order, all domestic sources I know will reship, or compensate you in some way. I understand the sentiment, but I think reshipment policies only affect international sources such as me, which many already do have that

Again, thank you for your interest in the project, and I really appreciate the critique and doubts and likes of it. I understand your concern about waiting and not wanting to be part of the early adoption process, its understandable.
Click to expand...

Fake reviews, rogue vendors?

I will touch upon your point about review fraud and the potential for rogue vendors that misuse the platform. First, we must remember that Amazon and Ebay are absolutely massive. They simply have too many vendors too account for, so they don't. They use automated systems and bots to scan for irregularities and fraud. As you can imagine, those systems are imperfect. Since Brewly is small (and even when it's not, we'll only have a few dozen vendors at most) we can keep a much closer eye on things, which we do.

Human supervision

This human supervision is greatly superior when compared to using a bot to try to catch review fraud. Humans will always outsmart such systems. Not only can we go in and manualy investigate suspicious spikes in reviews and check things like account creation date, last login, amount of orders, but we can implement a few hard coded checks that will dispel a large majority of potential cases. Checks such as, account must be a certain age, account must have had at least 2+ orders with separate vendors, so on and so forth. Whatever we can do to make it as hard as possible to even attempt a review fraud. At some point, the juice just won't be worth the squeeze.

Along with human review, I strongly suspect this will be enough especially considering the penalty would be a ban.

Misuse of the platform

With regard to misuse of Brewly, like in your example, selling sex slaves? It's a bit contrived, but I assure you we keep an eye on what and who gets added to our platform. In the future, we may also add a Report button so users can flag content that does not fit our guidelines. In the meanwhile, to avoid people posting narcotics, we also have a word filter that does not allow you to create products with names that contain a list of narcotics/hard/rec drugs. Though, we still conduct manual reviews of all listings.
 
B Ware said:
Network fee? So not only are we paying the 5% fee that is passed down but also a network fee? Geez, greedy much

View attachment 140131
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Now you only need to pay your own network fee and then also the network fee from Brewly to each vendor. Another way to steal money from you, network fees right now aren't even near 16$.

This is what happens when you deal with scammers.
 
BigBaldBeardGuy said:
SST deletes. BOP deletes. Any other forum deletes.

MESO does not unless it’s a doxx

You included MESO with the other ones that delete posts.
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Just don't slip up and call Dr scally an asshole. That worth a 2 week ban. Ask me how I know. Ill be starting a thread from my real handle tomorrow when its lifted. But its like 99.9999% safe on free speech and your right nothing gets deleted unless it falls under doxing
 
Old-timer36 said:
Just don't slip up and call Dr scally an asshole. That worth a 2 week ban. Ask me how I know. Ill be starting a thread from my real handle tomorrow when its lifted. But its like 99.9999% safe on free speech and your right nothing gets deleted unless it falls under doxing
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Lol for real? You got banned for calling the dude an asshole?
 
Brewly said:
I appreciate you taking the time to write this up and bringing up some fresh points. I will try to add to some of the responses DO gave. For those just tuning in, here is DO's reply:



Fake reviews, rogue vendors?

I will touch upon your point about review fraud and the potential for rogue vendors that misuse the platform. First, we must remember that Amazon and Ebay are absolutely massive. They simply have too many vendors too account for, so they don't. They use automated systems and bots to scan for irregularities and fraud. As you can imagine, those systems are imperfect. Since Brewly is small (and even when it's not, we'll only have a few dozen vendors at most) we can keep a much closer eye on things, which we do.

Human supervision

This human supervision is greatly superior when compared to using a bot to try to catch review fraud. Humans will always outsmart such systems. Not only can we go in and manualy investigate suspicious spikes in reviews and check things like account creation date, last login, amount of orders, but we can implement a few hard coded checks that will dispel a large majority of potential cases. Checks such as, account must be a certain age, account must have had at least 2+ orders with separate vendors, so on and so forth. Whatever we can do to make it as hard as possible to even attempt a review fraud. At some point, the juice just won't be worth the squeeze.

Along with human review, I strongly suspect this will be enough especially considering the penalty would be a ban.

Misuse of the platform

With regard to misuse of Brewly, like in your example, selling sex slaves? It's a bit contrived, but I assure you we keep an eye on what and who gets added to our platform. In the future, we may also add a Report button so users can flag content that does not fit our guidelines. In the meanwhile, to avoid people posting narcotics, we also have a word filter that does not allow you to create products with names that contain a list of narcotics/hard/rec drugs. Though, we still conduct manual reviews of all listings.
Click to expand...
Brewly, I’m one of the ones that doesn’t think your idea is too awful and for sure has some uses though it may not fit the ideals of meso.. however I think that in trying to answer every question and cover all bases, you’re over reaching a little bit, like not being able to write a review to a vendor for a product that you just bought but can’t can’t review till you’ve bought another product from a separate vendor just doesn’t make any sense though I do see that the intent is to cover misuse and review fraud I think you’ll have to find other ways of doing that.
 
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Cashton said:
Lol for real? You got banned for calling the dude an asshole?
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Yes sir! Banned until jan 1st 1am 2021
14 days total.

I will start a small thread tomorrow telling the story from my account. I didnt realize he was a moderator but wasn't really attacking him like he claimed either.

Anyone interested in details before can pm me.
 
Old-timer36 said:
Yes sir! Banned until jan 1st 1am 2021
14 days total.

I will start a small thread tomorrow telling the story from my account. I didnt realize he was a moderator but wasn't really attacking him like he claimed either.

Anyone interested in details before can pm me.
Click to expand...
I’m just more shocked about you getting banned on meso for being rude to someone, mod or not.
 
Cashton said:
I’m just more shocked about you getting banned on meso for being rude to someone, mod or not.
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Test_Subject said:
It happens. Cdnguy got banned several times during some of his off-the-rails meth benders.
Click to expand...
It is certainly possible but usually well deserved. I and those I have spoken with think it was premature. I could have got it lifted but its whatever. I also think someone else got banned at the same time for replying and agreeing with me. Gonna try contacting them tomorrow once it is lifted and if so they most certainly did not deserve it by any means.
 
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