Bringing natural medicine to bodybuilding

[m_ob]

Not at all, you are just looking at it from a Professional standpoint.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Ok...once again that doesn't serve as an example of anything....Case studies HAN!!!!!!!

Better start clearing off that brown stuff off your nose buddy...

so what you are next going to say that accupuncture and chiropractors are not accepted by people on here because there are no case studies done.

So then bascially A4M dr's are quacks now too..Alot of what they do there are no clincal studies done at all but they are the ones that give people like our selves back quality of life we deserve.setting the new standard.

Problem with case studies is that one size does not fit all because the ranges are too great every one has an individual healthy range that they operate the best in.

Point being if people with normal testosterone are used for a study that may be at 350 ng/dl, but actually they may not be sufficent for that person.

clincal studies more suited for drug testing..To other variables to content with to be considered what is "normal"
"normal" for one person may not be normal for another then we set into this black and white never looking at gray..

 

[Michael Scally MD]

It is not possible to argue or debate coherently with someone who is so thickheaded. HAN, you have absolutely no concept or idea what evidence means. According to you (HAN), it is "a God given gift" (https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134282009). These gifts are common and frequently observed with astrology (horoscopes), tarot cards, numerology, . . . you get the idea! The type of reasoning that you use is best defined as schizophrenic.

Better start clearing off that brown stuff off your nose buddy...

HAN, I do not think that CubbieBlue will be “clearing off that brown stuff off [his] nose” anytime soon. But, it might be more apropos to take your head out of you’re rump! CubbieBlue is right on target that what you give as evidence is anything but.

As an example, I have previously published a case report (see attachment and abstract following), “Scally MC, Hodge A. A report of hypothyroidism induced by an over-the-counter fat loss supplement (Tiratricol). Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2003;13(1):112-6.” I am sure this is what CubbieBlue and others are looking for. As I have said, a Letter to the Editor would suffice as proof for a claim. In medicine, counter to your ideas, evidence is not black/white but runs a range of levels, many shades of gray.

so what you are next going to say that accupuncture and chiropractors are not accepted by people on here because there are no case studies done.

There is literature for the practices and treatments in these professions. For those that have support, health insurance will pay. More importantly, though, is acceptance by people does not equate to evidence. If you are unable to see that, it is useless to argue or debate with you. In fact, it is useless to argue with you. Personally, I only wish you would get off this shtick that you provide treatments based on science when they are not. It would provide more credibility to what you claim.

So then bascially A4M dr's are quacks now too..Alot of what they do there are no clincal studies done at all but they are the ones that give people like our selves back quality of life we deserve.setting the new standard.

A4M is not a recognized body by the AMA. Regardless, A4M does purport that their treatments are evidenced based - About Anti-Aging Medicine | Worldhealth.net . There can be no NEW standard without articulating that standard. You have failed to articulate a standard for anything.

Problem with case studies is that one size does not fit all because the ranges are too great every one has an individual healthy range that they operate the best in.

Point being if people with normal testosterone are used for a study that may be at 350 ng/dl, but actually they may not be sufficent for that person.

clincal studies more suited for drug testing..To other variables to content with to be considered what is "normal"
"normal" for one person may not be normal for another then we set into this black and white never looking at gray..

There is absolutely nothing wrong with case studies. HAN, you make up your own game and rules that suit your conclusion at the time. I spoke previously of your oxymoronic statements. Again, you place your foot-in-mouth. Your logic for “normal” is there is no normal, therefore no abnormal, thus we have no measure, nothing, to define improvement except your ipse dixit.


Scally MC, Hodge A. A report of hypothyroidism induced by an over-the-counter fat loss supplement (Tiratricol). Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2003;13(1):112-6.

Prior to presentation, two physically fit adults, a 39-year-old male and 40-year-old female, began supplementation with an over-the-counter thyroid preparation marketed as a metabolic accelerator and fat loss aid, tiratricol. Both participants took the supplement for 5 weeks (3000-4000 mcg/d) and 3 weeks (6000 mcg/d), respectively. At presentation, both complained of lethargy, loss of appetite, and muscle weakness. Upon initial laboratory evaluation, results revealed low thyroid stimulating hormone with profoundly elevated T3 values in both patients. After an extensive review of the literature, the cause of the problem was found to be the nutritional supplement they consumed contained tiratricol. After discontinuation of the supplement, thyroid levels slowly returned to baseline 40 days and 5 months later, respectively.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Better start clearing off that brown stuff off your nose buddy...

so what you are next going to say that accupuncture and chiropractors are not accepted by people on here because there are no case studies done.

So then bascially A4M dr's are quacks now too..Alot of what they do there are no clincal studies done at all but they are the ones that give people like our selves back quality of life we deserve.setting the new standard.

Problem with case studies is that one size does not fit all because the ranges are too great every one has an individual healthy range that they operate the best in.

Point being if people with normal testosterone are used for a study that may be at 350 ng/dl, but actually they may not be sufficent for that person.

clincal studies more suited for drug testing..To other variables to content with to be considered what is "normal"
"normal" for one person may not be normal for another then we set into this black and white never looking at gray..

Dude...brown stuff? This is a fucking message board. I don't care who thinks what about me. I NEVER praise anyone or degrade anyone on this thing. I just call it like I see it. I would LOVE for you to help me and every one else on this board. I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU DO IT. Don't say GOD GIVEN TALENT. Give me some freaking examples of how you do it. I don't need a freaking peer reviewed scientific study...I just want you to tell me:

Guy A had a xyz imbalance due to blah blah blah. I knew this because blah blah blah. I treated him with abc and he was better in 6 months. I just want some examples of what you are doing and how you are doing it. Why wouldn't you provide this in order to drum up more business for yourself?

Also, accupuncture is full of shit. It is relaxing because it just is. There are hundreds of case studies that look at accupuncture. Nearly all of them call it out for being 100% full of shit. Does it have a place in medicine? Maybe as a relaxation technique. As a cure for any specific disease? NO.

Science-Based Medicine On the dangers of using valid placebo controls in clinical trials of acupuncture

I

 

[HeadDoc]

I am surprised to hear that chiropracty and accupunture have no evidence based studies in the literature.

I ran across the following in the Canadian Journal of Chir. on evidence based practice.

Chiropractic clinical practice guideline: evidence-based treatment of adult neck pain not due to whiplash


I would be surprised if I couldn't find the same for accupunture. I know that the concepts of energy based healing is non-Western. However, physical changes can still be measured one way or the other.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Time to pull your head [HAN] out of your ass and see just how real it really is

Evidence in medicine is far from black and white. It only appears to you, HAN, that way because you refuse to use any form of evidence. As described following, evidence in medicine is the cornerstone of diagnosis and treatment. Your signature, “Dr's tend to look at the symptoms and rarely examine the cause,” is way off the mark. For you, this is a sales pitch! For all of the inadequacies of medicine, the field sees evidence in a different light than you. How about articulating what you consider evidence?


"Evidence-based medicine" (EBM) involves the practice of integrating the best medical evidence, obtained from systematic reviews, with clinical experience expertise to formulate decision-making most likely to benefit the patient. EBM is an explicit process for clinical practice decision-making in individual patients. The process requires the integration of clinical expertise with the best available medical evidence obtained from systematic research (1).

The first element, individual clinical expertise, is judgment and clinical skills obtained from clinical experience and practice. This element also includes the ability to assimilate a specific patient's preferences and particular situation into the decision-making process. The second element of evidence-based medicine, the best available medical evidence, is what differentiates evidence-based medicine from what has been referred to as "eminence-based medicine or faith-based medicine."

The practice of evidence-based medicine requires clinical expertise supplemented with the best available medical evidence; without the latter, clinical decisions rapidly become out-of-date. The best available medical evidence is that which is reliable and clinically relevant to the problem at hand. Reliability in the medical evidentiary context includes validity, an appraisal of the closeness to the truth, and usefulness, a measure of the applicability of the evidence to the clinical situation. Faced with the need to make a decision regarding the value of a particular treatment for a specific disease, or in the case of a medical expert being asked for her opinion regarding therapy, the clinician should follow an evidence-based medicine protocol for the review of the best available medical evidence.

In 1989, Congress established the Agency for Health Care Policy and Research (AHCPR) in order to engage in outcomes research as well as to facilitate the creation and distribution of clinical practice guidelines (2). Section 911(a), part B, Title IX, Healthcare Research and Quality Act of 1999 reauthorized the Agency for Health Care Policy and Research, changing its name to the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ), Health & Human Services (HHS) (3).

The Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ), HHS is the lead Federal agency for enhancing the quality, appropriateness, and effectiveness of healthcare services and access to such services. AHRQ has a legislative mandate to develop and disseminate methods or systems to rate scientific evidence found in health care research studies. In carrying out this mission, AHRQ conducts and funds research that develops and presents evidence-based information on healthcare outcomes, quality, cost, use, and access. This research, findings, syntheses, and guidance intent is to assist providers, clinicians, payers, patients, and policy makers in making evidence-based decisions.

AHRQ commissioned the Research Triangle Institute-University of North Carolina Evidence-based Practice Center (RTI/UNC EPC) to undertake a study on systems to rate the quality of scientific evidence. The goals of the EPC study were to describe systems to rate the strength of scientific evidence, including evaluating the quality of individual articles that make up a body of evidence on a specific scientific question in health care, and to provide some guidance as to current “best practices” with respect to rating scientific evidence regarding a particular clinical treatment or technology.

The RTI/UNC EPC completed their study and submitted to AHRQ the report “Systems to Rate the Strength of Scientific Evidence.” The report includes the EPC’s methodological approach (e.g., search strategy, data collection, and analysis of findings) and discusses identification of systems, factors important in developing and using rating systems, and a “best practices” orientation to selecting systems for use (4).

These systems rate the strength of scientific evidence and form the integral part of evidence-based medicine. The different types of clinical evidence rankings are according to the strength of their freedom from the various biases that beset medical research. By constructing a rough hierarchy that reflects the value of the different types of clinically relevant information, evidence-based medicine attempts to improve decision-making by practicing physicians (5).

Of the seven systems identified by AHRQ to fully address scientific evidence the following are levels of the strength of evidence identified by one system:

(1). N-of-1 randomized trial (In N-of-1 trials, the patient undergoes pairs of treatment periods organized so that one period involves the use of the experimental treatment and the other involves the use of an alternate or placebo therapy. The patient and physicians are blinded, if possible, and outcomes are monitored. Treatment periods are replicated until the clinician and patient are convinced that the treatments are definitely different or definitely not different.);

(2). Systematic reviews of randomized trials;

(3). Single randomized trials;

(4). Systematic review of observational studies addressing patient-important outcomes;

(5). Single observational studies addressing patient-important outcomes;

(6). Physiologic studies; and

(7). Unsystematic clinical observations.

In general, health care professionals should, in descending order of preference, look for guidance in systematic reviews of randomized controlled trials, the results of individual controlled clinical trials, observational (uncontrolled) studies, and anecdotal reports of clinical observations (6).

Endocrine Practice, the official journal of the American College of Endocrinology stated, “There is a hierarchy of evidence from clinical research. Such a hierarchy arranges studies according to the strength of inferences that decision-makers can draw from them. “Inferences are stronger when drawn from studies that used stronger designs (randomized controlled trials versus observational studies) and that measured clinically important end points (7).

In situations where the scientific rationale for a clinical decision may be sparse or not known to the physician the exercise of clinical expertise embodies the art of medicine. Certain clinical decisions are in the face of considerable uncertainty resulting from a lack of scientific evidence. The best available medical evidence is what differentiates evidence-based medicine from eminence-based medicine (8).

The best available medical evidence is that which is reliable and clinically relevant to the problem at hand. Reliability in the medical evidentiary context includes validity, an appraisal of the closeness to the truth, and usefulness, a measure of the applicability of the evidence to the clinical situation.

Faced with the need to make a decision regarding the value of a particular treatment for a specific disease the clinician should follow an evidence-based medicine protocol for the review of the best available medical evidence. Practicing evidence-based medicine implies not only clinical expertise, but also expertise in retrieving, interpreting, and applying the results of scientific studies, and in communicating the risks and benefit of different courses of action to patients. Personal clinical experience remains an essential predicate for the effective application of EBM, but it can not provide the primary basis for making treatment decisions.

"The evidence may be extremely weak — the unsystematic observation of a single clinician or generalization from only indirectly related physiologic studies — but there is always evidence."

To effectively apply evidence in practice, in addition to skills in taking a history, conducting an examination, determining a diagnosis, and determining appropriate options for intervention, a clinician must have the ability to:

(1) identify gaps in knowledge,

(2) formulate clinically relevant questions;

(3) conduct an efficient literature search;

(4) apply rules of evidence, including a hierarchy of evidence, to determine the validity of studies;

(5) apply the literature findings appropriately to the patient problem; and

(6) understand how the patient's values affect the balance between potential advantages and disadvantages of the available management options, and appropriately involve the patient in the decision.

In summary:

EBM applies the standards of evidence gained from the scientific method to medical practice.

AHRQ is the lead Federal agency for enhancing the quality, appropriateness, and effectiveness of healthcare services and access to such services.

AHRQ published a report on systems that rate the strength of scientific evidence and form the integral part of evidence based medicine.

Treatment decisions bases are on the best available medical evidence—there is always evidence—and not personal clinical experience.

Dogma, NO EVIDENCE, are those opinions held as established or put forth as an authoritative or expert opinion but that have little or no supportive empirical evidence from primary sources.


(1) David L. Sackett et al., Evidence-based Medicine: How to Practice and Teach EBM 2 (1997).]

(2) See Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989, Pub. L. No. 101- 239, § 6103(a), 103 Stat. 2106, 2189-95 (codified as amended at 42 U.S.C. § 299b-1(a) (2000)) (directing the agency to "arrange for the development and periodic review and updating of-(1) clinically relevant guidelines that may be used by physicians, educators, and health care practitioners").

(3) 67 Fed. Reg. 36,606 (May 24, 2002) Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Public comments on EPC Report "Systems to Rate the Strength of Scientific Evidence."

(4) Department of Health and Human Services. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality. Systems to Rate the Strength of Scientific Evidence. Evidence Report/Technology Assessment No. 47, AHRQ Publication No. 02-E016 (Rockville, MD: Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, 2002). Available at: Systems to Rate the Strength Of Scientific Evidence: Evidence Report/Technology Assessment Number 47 -- AHRQ Evidence Reports -- NCBI Bookshelf

(5) Lars Noah, Medicine's Epistemology: Mapping The Haphazard Diffusion Of Knowledge In The Biomedical Community, 44 Ariz. L. Rev. 373 (2002).

(6) Gordon H. Guyatt et al., Users' Guides to the Medical Literature: XXV. Evidence-Based Medicine: Principles for Applying the Users' Guides to Patient Care, 284 JAMA 1290, 1292-3 (2000) ("The hierarchy implies a clear course of action for physicians addressing patient problems-they should look for the highest available evidence from the hierarchy.").

(7) VM Montori, Evidence-Based Endocrine Practice, 9 Endocr Pract 321 (2003).

(8) John M. Eisenberg, What Does Evidence Mean? Can the Law and Medicine Be Reconciled?, 26 J. Health Pol Pol'y & L. 369, 370-71 (2001).

 

[CubbieBlue]

I am surprised to hear that chiropracty and accupunture have no evidence based studies in the literature.

I ran across the following in the Canadian Journal of Chir. on evidence based practice.

Chiropractic clinical practice guideline: evidence-based treatment of adult neck pain not due to whiplash


I would be surprised if I couldn't find the same for accupunture. I know that the concepts of energy based healing is non-Western. However, physical changes can still be measured one way or the other.

Exactly you can find HUNDREDS of case studies on accupuncture, chiropractic care, whatever. Whether or not they show anything is another question. But that is beyond the point!

 

[HeadDoc]

Exactly you can find HUNDREDS of case studies on accupuncture, chiropractic care, whatever. Whether or not they show anything is another question. But that is beyond the point!

actually when I took the time to look at the acupunture studies, the data are not that strong. One recent review indicated that the studies for "deep needling" are small in size. The authors recommended that it was time for those involved in acupunture to do some larger scale studies. Chiropractic methods may be better supported. CB, I think that we are arguing the same point. Case studies are a useful source of data. However, positive case studies would hopefully lead to larger more complex studies.

 

[CubbieBlue]

actually when I took the time to look at the acupunture studies, the data are not that strong. One recent review indicated that the studies for "deep needling" are small in size. The authors recommended that it was time for those involved in acupunture to do some larger scale studies. Chiropractic methods may be better supported. CB, I think that we are arguing the same point. Case studies are a useful source of data. However, positive case studies would hopefully lead to larger more complex studies.

Correct. Regardless of the outcome - they are there! Again, I would love for Dr. Crisler, HAN, hell...anyone - to put forth some basic case studies on the following:

Treating adrenal fatigue/insufficiency/whatever you want to call it w/ hydrocortisone

T4/T3 therapy v. T3 therapy

TRT with and without hCG

Again, I am not looking for a peer reviewed publication, I just want MORE than "Oh, Jed's brother takes HC and he feels way better now."

 

[hardasnails1973]

Dude...brown stuff? This is a fucking message board. I don't care who thinks what about me. I NEVER praise anyone or degrade anyone on this thing. I just call it like I see it. I would LOVE for you to help me and every one else on this board. I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU DO IT. Don't say GOD GIVEN TALENT. Give me some freaking examples of how you do it. I don't need a freaking peer reviewed scientific study...I just want you to tell me:

Guy A had a xyz imbalance due to blah blah blah. I knew this because blah blah blah. I treated him with abc and he was better in 6 months. I just want some examples of what you are doing and how you are doing it. Why wouldn't you provide this in order to drum up more business for yourself?

Also, accupuncture is full of shit. It is relaxing because it just is. There are hundreds of case studies that look at accupuncture. Nearly all of them call it out for being 100% full of shit. Does it have a place in medicine? Maybe as a relaxation technique. As a cure for any specific disease? NO.

Science-Based Medicine ? On the dangers of using valid placebo controls in clinical trials of acupuncture

I

Cubbie,
My point is I will use what ever method (scientific, anedotctal, ect) I want and if there is a clincal response and it helps the person to get better so be it. My purpose is to help people balance their systems which chinese have been doing for 5,000 years focusing on looking at the cause as well as supporting the symptoms at the same time. This is the problem with modern medicine. Person has depression hand them a pill instead of looking at the gut and liver where over 90% of neurortranmistters are produced in the first place or look at hormones.. Cubbie when you do things long enough its becomes second nature. Just as people have athletic gifts there are people that have a gift for other things. Dealing in the field of energetic medicine we are just starting to understand some concepts, but then there are things that can not be explained scientifically. Some may look at this as new age medicine, but I look at it as future of how medicine in next few decades.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Cubbie,
This is the problem with modern medicine. Person has depression hand them a pill instead of looking at the gut and liver where over 90% of neurortranmistters are produced in the first place or look at hormones.. Cubbie when you do things long enough its becomes second nature. Just as people have athletic gifts there are people that have a gift for other things. Dealing in the field of energetic medicine we are just starting to understand some concepts, but then there are things that can not be explained scientifically. Some may look at this as new age medicine, but I look at it as future of how medicine in next few decades.

Where do you think neurotransmitters are produced? The liver and gut!!! What neurotransmitters are you speaking of? Do you care to clarify, or is this question too specific for you? C'mon, meet this simple challenge.

By the way, you are helping others to finally understand your modus operandi: "second nature," "gifts," "field of energetic medicine," "can not be explained scientifically," "new age medicine," "future of how medicine," blah ... blah ... blah .... You are a comedy routine. I laugh whenever I read your stuff. Do you run a palm reader service on the side?

 

[hardasnails1973]

HAHA
Me promoting myself thats a joke.

Some one asking for donatations for a website...thats called being desperate..

After these next few weeks, I will not have time to deal with these childish babling any more. My life is going in a complete and new direction.

Scally carry on chap your only driving my business up

 

[CubbieBlue]

HAHA
Me promoting myself thats a joke.

Some one asking for donatations for a website...thats called being desperate..

After these next few weeks, I will not have time to deal with these childish babling any more. My life is going in a complete and new direction.

Scally carry on chap your only driving my business up

Can you give one or two examples like I talked about? I just want examples man.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

HAHA
Me promoting myself thats a joke.

Some one asking for donatations for a website...thats called being desperate..

After these next few weeks, I will not have time to deal with these childish babling any more. My life is going in a complete and new direction.

Scally carry on chap your only driving my business up

What is the matter, can't answer the simple question about neurotransmitters? C'mon - it's easy!!! Show your stuff!

No problem, happy to be of help. If you say your life is going in a "complete and new direction," does that mean you will be using evidence now instead of BS? You are unable or incapable to argue or debate. You have yet to provide a case study, any shred of scientific support for your "therapies," despite being asked countless times, and use ad hominem argument and stories for support. My aim has been to shine some light on your shenanigans. I thank you for exposing yourself for what you truly are. As I said, the Meso reader is intelligent to evaluate and decide for themselves.

I do have a website, I do ask for donations. What is the harm? While, even your little club leader asks for donations! This is far better than pushing people for your "nutritional analysis," making unsupported claims for drugs/supplements, worthless lab tests, and more. What you attract are the desperate looking for any solution. Of the 100,000 cures you claim, you are not able to provide a single case study. Why don't you come out from under that rock, or from behind that bush, or wherever you hide, and be out in the open for your practices.

ROTFLMFAOPIMP

 

[hardasnails1973]

Scally if it aint broke I not going to fix it.

I will use what ever is at my disposal and BTW I have a licensed MD backing me with patients t I use the same exact approach with all other people I deal with as well.

Your right desperate people find me because they are tired of slipping through the cracks of all traditional medicine bullshit because traditional drs are not trained to think out side the box, but just look at numbers rather then symptoms and the person as a whole. That's the main point I am trying to make. . .

I never said 100,000 cures I said that people that have read my post have benefited. I never claim to cure any one, but imporove quality of life.

What Dr J, shippen and myself do is help better a person's quality of life by going out side the box of traditional medicine. I do not need a fucken study to validate it.. The difference in a persons life is proof to me in itself..

REason I got into doing what I am doing is sharing my life expereince, educate people to make sure they do not make the same mistakes I made for years. because I should have been dead because of the Dr's screw up.

When dealing with other medical professionals I keep a mutual respect with then and a thing called Professional Courtesy which some forget. .

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Scally if it aint broke I not going to fix it.

I will use what ever is at my disposal and BTW I have a licensed MD backing me with patients t I use the same exact approach with all other people I deal with as well.

Your right desperate people find me because they are tired of slipping through the cracks of all traditional medicine bullshit because traditional drs are not trained to think out side the box, but just look at numbers rather then symptoms and the person as a whole. That's the main point I am trying to make. . .

What is the matter, can't answer the simple question about neurotransmitters? C'mon - it's easy!!! Show your stuff!

 

[hardasnails1973]

Are you telling me that you think neurotransmitters are produced more in the brain and not the liver or gut HAHA

serotonin is produced mainly by the enterochromaffin cells of. the gut

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/01.CIR.0000159356.42064.48v1.pdf

Trust me I can pull articles out my ass just as fast as you ...

Why balancing methylayion resolves some depression in people since methylation occurs in the liver which helps with pathway of detoxxifcation.

Healing the gut heals the liver which can heal the brain...

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Are you telling me that you think neurotransmitters are produced more in the brain and not the liver or gut HAHA

serotonin is produced mainly by the enterochromaffin cells of. the gut

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/01.CIR.0000159356.42064.48v1.pdf

Trust me I can pull articles out my ass just as fast as you ...

Are you saying that the serotonin produced in the gut acts as a neurotransmitter in the brain? It is an easy question! C'mon, you can "pull an article out of your ass," since that is where you find them!

"Trust me I can pull articles out my ass just as fast as you " Now we might be getting somewhere!

Can you answer the question about gut serotonin and neurotransmitters?

C'mon, HAN, show your stuff!

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Why balancing methylayion resolves some depression in people since methylation occurs in the liver which helps with pathway of detoxxifcation.

Healing the gut heals the liver which can heal the brain...

Now, I understand, perfectly. I recognize that treatment method. It is sometimes called "Dem Bones."
[Can you answer the question about gut serotonin and neurotransmitters? Since you mention gut serotonin, are you saying neuromuscular junction acetylcholine is acting as a neurotransmitter? C'mon, HAN, you are up to the challenge! ]

Dry Bones (or Skeleton Bones)
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/childrens-songs/Dry_Bones(or_Skeleton_Bones).htm

Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!

With the toe bone connected
to the foot bone,
and the foot bone connected
to the ankle bone,
and the ankle bone connected
to the leg bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!

Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!

With the leg bone connected
to the knee bone,
and the knee bone connected
to the thigh bone,
and the thigh bone connected
to the hip bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!

Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!

With the hip bone connected
to the back bone,
and the back bone connected
to the neck bone,
and the neck bone connected
to the head bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!

Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!

With the finger bone connected
to the hand bone,
and the hand bone connected
to the arm bone,
and the arm bone connected
to the shoulder bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!

Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones,
oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!

With the shoulder bone connected
to the back bone,
and the back bone connected
to the neck bone,
and the neck bone connected
to the head bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!

 

[hardasnails1973]

For some one that is suppose to be in the medical field sure has alot of time on his hands trying to batter people.
Honestly I do not have to answer or prove anything to any you or any one. I have been on this forum for many years and have gained the respect and gratitude of many people that is proof enough. I was approach to asked to be Mod and that in and of itself shows my true purpose to why I am on here.

Who is the one here acting like a complete professional maintaining their integrity and not babbling away like some fool. Any one can use google and copy past clincal citations that does not take too much of a genius to do so.

Normally when people have thing about tearing people down is because they have deep issues among them selves that is a straight fact. Better they see the other person as being "successful" and will do everything to debunk them because they miserable because they failed in their endevors.

You don't understand the difference between the forum members passing the hat each month to cover the cost of the forum, as nothing is sold there, and what you do? Dr. Crisler has never put a penny of the small amount of funds raised into his pocket. That is a straight fact as the money goes to expenses of the board and nothing else. Their is no self profit. DR J never even sees that money as it goes to the owner of the board. They have no advertisements, make no profit. The only people that benefit are the people that are looking for answers to their ongoing health issues.

Scally you have your approach I have my approach ..end of story
I have not made one attack on you at all, but you still continue battering me.
Then have the audacosity to badger Phil who has helped literlally countless number of men with his generous contributions to the boards for many years. .
The most respected names in this fields are myself, Dr J, DR M and Phil for the past several years...
Continue your shennigans and you will turn this place in to a three ring circus with your as the head clown
what has worked for me and people I have worked with I will continue to use. I do not have a million dollars to waste in a clincal study.