Bringing natural medicine to bodybuilding

[hardasnails1973]

BTW THIS THREAD has gone completely off topic.

 

[CubbieBlue]

BTW THIS THREAD has gone completely off topic.

Yeah, that sucks.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I just got asked to be the health consultant (hormone,nutrition,personal trainer, cook ) to one of the top fitness models in europe. She is actually my girl freind who is also into holistic medicine and psychology. She will be the first prototype to incorporate this type approach into the professinal ranks. She is also working with Dr O as well to get proper blood work done. This is a exciting new step in a healthier approach to people in this exciting and potentially sport. My name will be appear in several different magazines across europe and also the work. She got a huge contract with one of the few supplement companes that is across the world. I am so excited for her as she is also excited about bringing a more healthy approach to bodybidling and fitness competitors. I will be in europe with her for a few shows. Most of them in england so i wil keep you posted.

Tell that to several hundred thousands more that I have improved the quality of life.
Also if that was the case then why are many insurances starting to add more chiropractors,, accupuncture, ect to be covered. Time to pull your head out of your ass and see just how real it really is

BTW THIS THREAD has gone completely off topic.

I do not think so, at all! You put yourself smack in the bulls eye when you announced what you do in the initial post followed by other claims. The trolls are not welcomed and are deleted, but other stories are needed for clarification. After all, you have yet to substantiate your treatments except by the unwritten anecdote. Why did you choose to close the thread? At least an explanation on how it is off topic would help.

 

[m_ob]

I do not think so, at all! You put yourself smack in the bulls eye when you announced what you do in the initial post followed by other claims. The trolls are not welcomed and are deleted, but other stories are needed for clarification. After all, you have yet to substantiate your treatments except by the unwritten anecdote. Why did you choose to close the thread? At least an explanation on how it is off topic would help.

I would apprechiate an explanation as well.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

BTW THIS THREAD has gone completely off topic.

I believe it was you that titled the thread, "Bringing natural medicine to bodybuilding." From the complaining posts, it appears that natural medicine has some "explaining to do."

 

[hardasnails1973]

I do not think so, at all! You put yourself smack in the bulls eye when you announced what you do in the initial post followed by other claims. The trolls are not welcomed and are deleted, but other stories are needed for clarification. After all, you have yet to substantiate your treatments except by the unwritten anecdote. Why did you choose to close the thread? At least an explanation on how it is off topic would help.

No because the fact that it went competely off track of its orginal intentions.
Name one damn person that takes time out of their busy schedule to help people by giving numerous of hours here out of gracious of my heart then they turn on me in a heart beat.

MOB what did I tell you 6 months ago GO BACK AND RESEARCH YOUR POST ..can not except the truth that nature medicine found your issue, but continue bad mouth me
BIGPETE757- I mentioned same exact, no other Dr he went to caught it, but i did. You want help then you know where to find me. i know you are not well and it takes time to freaken heal does not happen over night so I understand your frustration with dr's but do not bash the people that have tried to help you.



I do not TREAT in any form so do not stick words in there that are not even true.

Scally practicing medicine with out a licensce is ground for a large fine...you should know that by now. better then any one.

 

[m_ob]

No because the fact that it went competely off track of its orginal intentions.
Name one damn person that takes time out of their busy schedule to help people by giving numerous of hours here out of gracious of my heart then they turn on me in a heart beat.

MOB what did I tell you 6 months ago GO BACK AND RESEARCH YOUR POST
BIGPETE757- I mentioned same exact, no other Dr he went to caught it, but i did.

I do not TREAT in any form.

You spoke of "hidden intestinal infections" and "methylation issues due the the great Potato Famine of eighteen-seventy whenever" or the fact that my entire body was running mainly on adrenaline and that is why I was still lean. I would be ashamed to actually pay to be spoon fed this crap. You cannot expect others to fall for this forever.

 

[ericraven2003]

You spoke of "hidden intestinal infections" and "methylation issues due the the great Potato Famine of eighteen-seventy whenever" or the fact that my entire body was running mainly on adrenaline and that is why I was still lean. I would be ashamed to actually pay to be spoon fed this crap. You cannot expect others to fall for this forever.

Thank you.

 

[EnduroMan]

You spoke of "hidden intestinal infections" and "methylation issues due the the great Potato Famine of eighteen-seventy whenever" or the fact that my entire body was running mainly on adrenaline and that is why I was still lean. I would be ashamed to actually pay to be spoon fed this crap. You cannot expect others to fall for this forever.

m_ob, did you actually follow Han's advice though? Or did you jump ship early without ever seeing things through?

Its always fair to question things but in a kind and fair manner especially when they have gone out of their way to try to help.

You have backstabbed Dr Scally, Swale and now Han.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I do not TREAT in any form so do not stick words in there that are not even true.

Scally practicing medicine with out a licensce is ground for a large fine...you should know that by now. better then any one.

Are you making an accusation HAN? How am I practicing medicine by posting or by providing consultations where the individual obtains their medical care from a licensed physician. I do not prescribe, order labs, or make the diagnosis. All of this and more is at the behest of their physician.

Go ahead and make your best case. It has become so obvious, now, that you are not here to assist others, but post self-serving BS for your fragile ego. Where are you getting your marching orders from? It is clear to everyone. I will not debase myself with a spitting match. I will concede to you on that basis, okay?

As far as your ability to argue/debate, it does not exist. I am sure you are familiar with this site: A List Of Fallacious Arguments - A List Of Fallacious Arguments. Here a just some examples of your style:
Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man)
Changing The Subject (Digression, Red Herring, Misdirection, False Emphasis)


Johann Hari: How to spot a lame, lame argument
Johann Hari: How to spot a lame, lame argument - Johann Hari, Commentators - The Independent

April 11, 2009

There is one particular type of bad argument that has always existed, but it has now spread like tar over the world-wide web, and is seeping into the pubs, coffee shops and opinion columns everywhere. It is known as 'what-aboutery' - and there was a particularly ripe example of it in response to one of my articles last week.

As a rhetorical trick, it is simple. Anyone can do it, and we are all tempted sometimes. When you have lost an argument - when you can't justify your case, and it is crumbling in your hands - you snap back: "But what about x?"

You then raise a totally different subject, and try to get everybody to focus on it - hoping it will distract attention from your own deflated case.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

You have backstabbed Dr Scally, Swale and now Han.

In defense of m_ob, I read his posts bashing me. Unlike others, I recognized this as someone desperately looking for help with little success. I do not see him backstabbing me. Backstabbing is to attack someone unfairly, especially in an underhand, deceitful manner. The ATM forum makes it difficult, not impossible, for someone to have a contrary viewpoint. Unfortunately, it is this environment that promotes the widespread negative threads/posts directed at me. As a young and impressionable young man, his falling in line with the ATM MO is no more than a wish for help and acceptance from ATM. I will be the one to judge if I have been "backstabbed," not you or others. Thank you. [Note: Not that is any business of yours, but m_ob and I have discussed the ATM threads/posts. That is alot more than I can say how he is being treated at ATM. Grow Up.]

 

[m_ob]

m_ob, did you actually follow Han's advice though? Or did you jump ship early without ever seeing things through?

Its always fair to question things but in a kind and fair manner especially when they have gone out of their way to try to help.

You have backstabbed Dr Scally, Swale and now Han.

And I have only thought twice about one of those wrong-doings, that being Dr. Scally. He is obviously the most educated and well-prepared to handle these types of things, and besides that he's actually has been involved in the Endocrine Society, American College of Clinical Endocrinologists, American College of Sports Medicine, and International Society for Antiviral Research.
He reasearches, something I have yet to see the others do. They go by word of mouth and what worked for Steve's brother, or Johns sister. Health should not be this way. Clinical approaches work much better than random assortments of false diagnosis. Notice I have not been so quick to return an apology to John or Hans for one simple reason. I cannot see what they speak of as legit, especially Hans and as for hans going out of his way to help, the first thing he asked me to do when i got off the phone with im was to write up a thread about how much he'd helped me, and being nice I did when really all I knew now was some guy told me I had some infection and my adrenals were shot. I am trying to be as fair as possible but all things considered what Hans is pulling is not right in my eyes. Maybe only in my eyes..but there may be others.

 

[Millard]

Please limit your debate/discussion to the topic at hand e.g. health claims/information/advice/protocols rather than making personal attacks and/or criminal accusations.

 

[barcafan]

I would apprechiate an explanation as well.

You need to promptly shut the hell up. If Han is correct in saying he spent 3 hours on the phone with you FOR FREE, then you should stop posting.

if not, then i apologize.

 

[Bigpete757]

This is really frustrating to read, considering my upcoming trip to Shawn and Dr. Overbeck in two weeks. How was the need for CORTEF confirmed? Saliva testing? Through my own reading I believe that my problems have something to do with a nasty stress/cortisol cycle that I cannot break. And believe me I am DE-SPER-ATE to regain my health right now.

The need for cortef was confirmed via a 4 point saliva test from Genova labs. My baseline cortisol a.m. was around 13, and from what I read at the time, this seemed to be a little low. Looking back, I think I did need some form of adrenal support, but my treatment was botched. They didn't even test me for Lyme's before going on cortef. Do you know that if you take cortosteroids with an infection such as Lyme's or something else, that it can have devastating consequences. It suppresses your immune system. And maybe for some this is ok, but for others it can cause alot of problems. At the very least, please get tested for lymes or other possible infections before thinking of going on cortef. I could very well have some sort of intestinal infection going on and I was put on the med anyways. Also, listen to your body and don't just blindly follow a doctor. If you are getting worse, scale back on the medicaton and re-evaluate what is going on. Maybe there is another way to approach your problem, with another medication, etc. Lastly, I know it might be hard to concentrate or post on various forums, but try to stick with it. Alot of people know things that could possibly help you.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

The need for cortef was confirmed via a 4 point saliva test from Genova labs. My baseline cortisol a.m. was around 13, and from what I read at the time, this seemed to be a little low. Looking back, I think I did need some form of adrenal support, but my treatment was botched. They didn't even test me for Lyme's before going on cortef. Do you know that if you take cortosteroids with an infection such as Lyme's or something else, that it can have devastating consequences. It suppresses your immune system. And maybe for some this is ok, but for others it can cause alot of problems. At the very least, please get tested for lymes or other possible infections before thinking of going on cortef. I could very well have some sort of intestinal infection going on and I was put on the med anyways. Also, listen to your body and don't just blindly follow a doctor. If you are getting worse, scale back on the medicaton and re-evaluate what is going on. Maybe there is another way to approach your problem, with another medication, etc. Lastly, I know it might be hard to concentrate or post on various forums, but try to stick with it. Alot of people know things that could possibly help you.

Was this a mail-in sample? Do you recall the procedure for the sample? Do you have the forms with the testing? I am asking because of certain facts surrounding saliva testing. These are in addition to the point that adrenal fatigue is not a recognized diagnosis, nor is the so-called adrenal support with corticosteroids. Besides the very dangerous suppression of the immune system, there are other problems. Do most even realize the immediate memory deficits caused by corticosteroid "support" with as little as 25-30 mg. There are long-term harms as well. From what I have read, this is a typical starting dose!

FYI: Genova Diagnostics - Diagnostic Laboratory Testing for Wellness & Preventive Medicine - Genova Diagnostics - was established in 1986 as Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab before changing its name to Genova Diagnostics in April 2003 (http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=3).

 

[GirlyMan]

Notice I have not been so quick to return an apology to John or Hans for one simple reason.

Because you are immature and have not yet learned the value of civility.

I cannot see what they speak of as legit,

Excuse me if I prefer to determine legitimacy for myself. It would be like asking my youngest 15 yo son whether or not he thought this particular scientific study was legitimate or not. I house beagles older than you. Not being a trained scientist, your opinion of legitimacy is greatly diminished, to the point of being irrelevant.

I'll say it again, you could do yourself a favor by learning some manners.

 

[m_ob]

Because you are immature and have not yet learned the value of civility.

Excuse me if I prefer to determine legitimacy for myself. It would be like asking my youngest 15 yo son whether or not he thought this particular scientific study was legitimate or not. I house beagles older than you. Not being a trained scientist, your opinion of legitimacy is greatly diminished, to the point of being irrelevant.

I'll say it again, you could do yourself a favor by learning some manners.

are you saying you do not trust that your 15 year old son, just due to youth, is not wise enough to learn and comprehend what this all means?

 

[GirlyMan]

are you saying you do not trust that your 15 year old son, just due to youth, is not wise enough to learn and comprehend what this all means?

I know for a fact that he has not had enough time to go through the training necessary to comment on scientific legitimacy.

 

[BBC3]

Trust a fifteen year old boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? Now thats a laugh....[)][)]