Chase Irons' 5g and 18iu ED of GH

[laclark89]

I have high bp. I've always ate alot of sodium, my sodium levels have never been close to being high on blood work so?

I may try a lower sodium diet just to experiment with my bp, but I do sweat alot.

The more u sweat the more sodium u need, it's a essential nutrient.

 

[OldGHGuy]

I always discounted sodium's effect on BP until I actually started monitoring it. It really does have a profound effect and should be a first line strategy to resolve BP issues (just like our docs have always told us). Unless there is a deficiency, I would certainly never recommend that an AAS user ADD salt to their diet. But perhaps there is something that I dont understand and perhaps salt provides a performance enhancement that is worth the cost to BP? No disrepect to anyone. Just looking for clarification/data

 

[laclark89]

I always discounted sodium's effect on BP until I actually started monitoring it. It really does have a profound effect and should be a first line strategy to resolve BP issues (just like our docs have always told us). Unless there is a deficiency, I would certainly never recommend that an AAS user ADD salt to their diet. But perhaps there is something that I dont understand and perhaps salt provides a performance enhancement that is worth the cost to BP? No disrepect to anyone. Just looking for clarification/data

I hear what ur saying but Most drs advise that to 60 year olds and alot of things athletes do drs dont approve of.

 

[OldGHGuy]

I always discounted sodium's effect on BP until I actually started monitoring it. It really does have a profound effect and should be a first line strategy to resolve BP issues (just like our docs have always told us). Unless there is a deficiency, I would certainly never recommend that an AAS user ADD salt to their diet. But perhaps there is something that I dont understand and perhaps sqlt provides a performance enhancement that is worth the cost to BP

I hear what ur saying but Most drs advise that to 60 year olds and alot of things athletes do drs dont approve of.

View attachment 275867

Of course. Replacement. And salt replacement if needed to rehydrate. Nobody is arguing that. To each his own. High BP can effect anyone, regardless of age. You dont have to be 60

 

[laclark89]

I always discounted sodium's effect on BP until I actually started monitoring it. It really does have a profound effect and should be a first line strategy

 

[laclark89]

I pretty much agree with u. But cardio and weight loss, should be a first line strategy imo.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Ya. Thats why I said monitoring sodium should be "A" first line strategy, not "THE"first line strategy. You have already said you have high BP so why dont you try it and find out?

 

[readalot]

Sodium Intake and Hypertension

The close relationship between hypertension and dietary sodium intake is widely recognized and supported by several studies. A reduction in dietary sodium not only decreases the blood pressure and the incidence of hypertension, but is also associated ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

J shaped curve and individual sensitivity. Nice coverage of RAAS and too little or too much Na+. Keep a close eye on your daily K+ and Na+.

 

[LarryLove]

Ya. Thats why I said monitoring sodium should be "A" first line strategy, not "THE"first line strategy. You have already said you have high BP so why dont you try it and find out?

Yes, people see their ankles swell up like balloons and immediately think high E2, it could be, but salt can be a big contributor as well. Recently happened to me. I get it. Everything I love has a ton of salt, and since I’m 41 I can get away with some, but when I’m 60 it’ll be a huge contributor to overall health. Hoping to make it that long!

 

[readalot]

Yes, people see their ankles swell up like balloons and immediately think high E2, it could be, but salt can be a big contributor as well. Recently happened to me. I get it. Everything I love has a ton of salt, and since I’m 41 I can get away with some, but when I’m 60 it’ll be a huge contributor to overall health. Hoping to make it that long!

Even very fit people see swelling upon starting TRT. The RAAS effect often overlooked. Everything but the kitchen sink thrown at E2 issue.

 

[readalot]

Figure - PMC

The close relationship between hypertension and dietary sodium intake is widely recognized and supported by several studies. A reduction in dietary sodium not only decreases the blood pressure and the incidence of hypertension, but is also ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Testosterone/androgens plus high salt = double whammy. Take care of the endothelium.

I started TRT at 120 mg/week with 8% BF. Keto diet. Very little aromatization. Big ole ankles for first couple of months. Some are just more sensitive.

Add another 20 to 40 pounds of muscle, more androgens, more blood volume, more heart and blood vessel wear and tear. As bad or worse than fat obesity (blood volume correlates well with pounds of lean mass, muscular obesity). YMMV.

Pay special attention to pulse pressure over time (see bottom part of Fig. 1 above). Widening pulse pressure can indicate arterial stiffness and/or diastolic dysfunction. Regular echos/ekgs/BP monitoring if you abuse androgens.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Figure - PMC

The close relationship between hypertension and dietary sodium intake is widely recognized and supported by several studies. A reduction in dietary sodium not only decreases the blood pressure and the incidence of hypertension, but is also ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

View attachment 275872

Testosterone/androgens plus high salt = double whammy. Take care of the endothelium.

I started TRT at 120 mg/week with 8% BF. Keto diet. Very little aromatization. Big ole ankles for first couple of months. Some are just more sensitive.

Add another 20 to 40 pounds of muscle, more androgens, more blood volume, more heart and blood vessel wear and tear. As bad or worse than fat obesity (blood volume correlates well with pounds of lean mass, muscular obesity). YMMV.

Pay special attention to pulse pressure over time (see bottom part of Fig. 1 above). Widening pulse pressure can indicate arterial stiffness and/or diastolic dysfunction. Regular echos/ekgs/BP monitoring if you abuse androgens.

Thanks @readalot. Correct me if I am wrong: What especially sucks on the BP topic is that it increases with LEAN tissue as well as fat. So, no matter how lean you get, adding muscle still contributes to the BP challenge. That sucks for big framed guys like me that want to be miscular and lean but constantly fight the overall weight issue as we gain muscle because it still contributes to BP damnit.

 

[Fattyone]

Pay special attention to pulse pressure over time (see bottom part of Fig. 1 above). Widening pulse pressure can indicate arterial stiffness and/or diastolic dysfunction. Regular echos/ekgs/BP monitoring if you abuse androgens.

Yikes. Mines always pretty low. Like between mid 50’s and mid 60’s.

 

[readalot]

Yikes. Mines always pretty low. Like between mid 50’s and mid 60’s.

What? Diastolic or pulse pressure (which is systolic minus diastolic)?

 

[readalot]

Thanks @readalot. Correct me if I am wrong: What especially sucks on the BP topic is that it increases with LEAN tissue as well as fat. So, no matter how lean you get, adding muscle still contributes to the BP challenge. That sucks for big framed guys like me that want to be miscular and lean but constantly fight the overall weight issue as we gain muscle because it still contributes to BP damnit.

Absolutely, muscle mass contributes to hemodynamic load (blood volumetric flow). Get big or die trying. I empathize. Same boat.

 

[Fattyone]

What? Diastolic or pulse pressure (which is systolic minus diastolic)?

Those were diastolic numbers mentioned. Systolic I’m usually around 120-130.

 

[readalot]

Those were diastolic numbers mentioned. Systolic I’m usually around 120-130.

Yep that is what mine does on 12 to 15 weeks of abusive androgen load. A good tell and why BP monitoring so important. Nice work staying on top of it. Pulse pressure... another overlooked topic.

 

[explodingHeart]

What do you mean "the GH just totally destroyed me."

I dug through some logs where others went from 5-10iu to 15iu. They reported 10-15+ lb weight gain in the first few weeks. Same happened to me despite taking HCTZ and telmisartan.

BP and heart rate up by a fair amount when normally I gain little water weight/BP increase from androgens.

I couldn't stand it and cut the GH then jumped to a cut to bring my weight back down.

But I have shitty genetics for bodybuilding, maybe others can handle such sudden weight increases without problem.

 

[connoristiny]

my large lean mass accrual has way more impact on BP than copious amounts of sodium does

 

[ovrdooze]

while we're at the topic of sodium and bloat... do you guys use anything to combat the water retention from the hgh? I'm fine with being a little wet but when my knuckles start to disappear is a different level
since my BP is already creeping up I decided to take some medication for that, would a telmisartan-hydrochlorothiazid be a good combo regarding it's diuretic effects?