Cut with Anavar or Tren?

[Liter O' Test]

Who scammed you lol, your take is so ridiculous and nonsensical.

I don’t even want to engage with someone who do not understand what coaching means.

I don’t think he understands the concept of service or occupation, there are in all professions a good and bad one.

I don't understand "the concept of service or occupation"?

your replies are just an attempt to sound intelligent while avoiding my points.

Also probably a lot of "appeal to authority" in your psyche.

There are also small time trainers who are good enough for beginners that only do their PT in gyms.

As a beginner, you will cut all the bullshit out in your first year if you have someone introduce you to the sport and navigate through all the steps even in just a couple of weeks.

A man has to pay another guy to introduce him to the gym?
What "steps" need to be taken or learned?
going to the gym isn't a sport. This is why coaches aren't required.

outside of the context of competing, this whole default "coach" response breeds a helpless mentality and is mostly the result of people selling "coaching" normalizing it.

hell lately it seems like people use "Coach" like people use "doctor prescribed", as a defense to make their gear use more legitimate than others.

paying some dude to tell you exactly what to do , when you could easily do it on your own like everyone else, is werid af, lifting is a personal journey and your physique reflects your determination and problem solving skills. Instead of telling a dude "make me bigger I wanna look like that guy" and just doing what he tells you for the end result. This is just another example of the perversion of society, where everything is distilled down to a superficial transaction



(again, outside of the context of competing or high level etc.)

 

[DECLAN]

I don't understand "the concept of service or occupation"?

your replies are just an attempt to sound intelligent while avoiding my points.

Also probably a lot of "appeal to authority" in your psyche.


A man has to pay another guy to introduce him to the gym?
What "steps" need to be taken or learned?
going to the gym isn't a sport. This is why coaches aren't required.

outside of the context of competing, this whole default "coach" response breeds a helpless mentality and is mostly the result of people selling "coaching" normalizing it.

hell lately it seems like people use "Coach" like people use "doctor prescribed", as a defense to make their gear use more legitimate than others.

paying some dude to tell you exactly what to do , when you could easily do it on your own like everyone else, is werid af, lifting is a personal journey and your physique reflects your determination and problem solving skills. Instead of telling a dude "make me bigger I wanna look like that guy" and just doing what he tells you for the end result. This is just another example of the perversion of society, where everything is distilled down to a superficial transaction



(again, outside of the context of competing or high level etc.)

go tell that to Dirthand and all of type IIx’s clients then, they’re perfect example of some who don’t compete but are working with a coach. Lots of guys here do it too. And I bet they attribute their improvements to getting coached.

Yes, you can definitely improve without someone helping you out, but with someone guiding you expedite the process and leave out the guessing game. You pay so you don’t have to go through the long process of second guessing, trial and error; and having someone hold you accountable and make adjustments.

So are the members here who use Justin Harris et al are wrong then? They are already in shape and why are they still employing these so called frauds like you say?

Not because you were scammed or wronged by a so called coach, then they are all the same. By the way bodybuilding has natural coaches too.

 

[Liter O' Test]

go tell that to Dirthand and all of type IIx’s clients then,

This is a juvenile response , trying to instigate problems between other guys

they’re perfect example of some who don’t compete but are working with a coach. Lots of guys here do it too. And I bet they attribute their improvements to getting coached.

People are free to do whatever they want, just like I am free to say everyone shouldn't aspire to have a coach.
If they want to have a coach to try to eek out some extra gains, or for their unique situation then good for them. People have different financial situations.
All the guys I know that have a coach like to drop it in conversation to FLEX. Or they have an assistant/personal experience in other areas of their life and want the same thing in the gym.
Its a different mentality than mine.
I never said having a coach wouldn't work.

Yes, you can definitely improve without someone helping you out, but with someone guiding you expedite the process and leave out the guessing game. You pay so you don’t have to go through the long process of second guessing, trial and error; and having someone hold you accountable and make adjustments.

So are the members here who use Justin Harris et al are wrong then? They are already in shape and why are they still employing these so called frauds like you say?

nowhere, did I say coaches were frauds.
Don't use the phrase "so called" and "like you say" about things I did not say, It implies a quote.

The point of my original post was about people who suggest getting a coach, as a catch-all default solution for the average guy. I don't know if you are intentionally ignoring this for arguments sake.

What I'm pushing back against, is the idea that a young guy trying to get his adult life together, needs to pay another man to "learn the ropes" of the gym or for accountability. Look at inflation in the U.S and even worse, shrinkflation.
Instead of paying a coach, talk to other guys at the gym and socialize, get a training partner to push you, get a friend who lifts and diets in discord send each other meal photos. I don't see this advice as often as I see "get a coach".

You want accountability?
how about the dude you bench with every week!

 

[BigTomJ]

What I'm pushing back against, is the idea that a young guy trying to get his adult life together, needs to pay another man to "learn the ropes" of the gym or for accountability.

I think this is the part you get stuck on.
No one needs a coach, everyone could use a coach.
When someone is expressing clear intentions that they are not interested in learning, but are only interested in being told what to do and have all that thinking done for them is when "get a coach" is the usual response.
its the same as "use the searchbar" to dismiss an individuals appetite for spoon feeding.

Instead of paying a coach, talk to other guys at the gym and socialize, get a training partner to push you, get a friend who lifts and diets in discord send each other meal photos. I don't see this advice as often as I see "get a coach".

These are all great social and communal exercises that frankly dont happen in the real world often.

This is all sound advice as its always beneficial to surround yourself with aspirational and motivated people, but its not like you can walk into the gym on your first day and socialize your way to knowing how to train.

All these practices do not diminish the benefits of quality coaching.
Pretty much all the recommendations' i have received from "the big guys" when i had no clue how to train was objectively bad advise, such is the case with the generic gym bro. So just socializing in the gym and getting a training partner, doesnt ensure that those that youre talking with or training with know what they are doing either.

I came up how you described, I researched myself, tried different things myself, talked with guys bigger than i was at the time or who had been training longer.
I would be an absolute fool if i didnt recognize that if i had access to coaching from someone with the knowledge have now i would have made significantly better results.

 

[DECLAN]

This is a juvenile response , trying to instigate problems between other guys

People are free to do whatever they want, just like I am free to say everyone shouldn't aspire to have a coach.
If they want to have a coach to try to eek out some extra gains, or for their unique situation then good for them. People have different financial situations.
All the guys I know that have a coach like to drop it in conversation to FLEX. Or they have an assistant/personal experience in other areas of their life and want the same thing in the gym.
Its a different mentality than mine.
I never said having a coach wouldn't work.

nowhere, did I say coaches were frauds.
Don't use the phrase "so called" and "like you say" about things I did not say, It implies a quote.

The point of my original post was about people who suggest getting a coach, as a catch-all default solution for the average guy. I don't know if you are intentionally ignoring this for arguments sake.

What I'm pushing back against, is the idea that a young guy trying to get his adult life together, needs to pay another man to "learn the ropes" of the gym or for accountability. Look at inflation in the U.S and even worse, shrinkflation.
Instead of paying a coach, talk to other guys at the gym and socialize, get a training partner to push you, get a friend who lifts and diets in discord send each other meal photos. I don't see this advice as often as I see "get a coach".

You want accountability?
how about the dude you bench with every week!

Of course you can ask others, you are stuck on the financial side of the coaching process.

Maybe I didn’t present the premise I want to get across. Someone, no matter what stage they are in their bodybuilding journey would still benefit by receiving guidance or advice from someone else. They don’t need to pay for said help.

I am not instigating anything, I am just pointing out examples of people benefiting from coaching, it doesn’t matter if they pay or not.

I still believe that some of us gymbros stay and look the same year in and out because we’re stuck doing the same shit even if there is all the information out there. It’s even worse for those guys who don’t have the intellect to understand the information available online or from books.

Maybe you don’t need one but I bet the majority of us here would actually progress further with having help with their diets and training.

 

[Grey Spartan]

I still believe that some of us gymbros stay and look the same year in and out because we’re stuck doing the same shit even if there is all the information out there. It’s even worse for those guys who don’t have the intellect to understand the information available online or from books.

100%

 

[iris]

@Liter O' Test

It's fair to say that many trainers are useless.
However, there are also very educated and experienced people out there, who have in depth knowledge about about physiology, nutrition and programming.
The most successful people in the fitness industry rely on professionals to organise and follow their preparation and progress, despite being very proficient themselves.
So, whilst one can teach themselves to a certain/good extent, one can also look at how people who do this seriously learn and advance.
If they engage with it, why would the average person interested in fitness not benefit from coaching, assuming it is of quality?

Sometimes it's good to be challenged and taken in a different direction, having what you do put in perspective by someone who has been there and done that, maybe to a greater extent or for a longer time than you.
We all rely on info other people put out there.
But if it can be applied and related to you, specifically, why not?

 

[Big_paul]

I've used both before during growth phases.

Which one would be better for cutting? Or perhaps even both?

On a related topic, how good is GH for cutting? I've never used it, but I'm afraid of growing all my organs

Definitely use both. Keep enough test in the cycle to not crash e2.

One of my favorite cycles was 250mg test
and 250mg tren a week for nice gains without androgenic sides.

To cut I never found anything that worked better than tren to keep gains and cut up at the same time. Just watch e2.

 

[Great_Snake]

Did you have difficult time with losing visceral fat? Or did you lack energy to perform the cardio? Or perhaps appetite control? Pick one at a time.

All of the above, I'm a 100% disabled combat veteran who likes lifting. Everything is twice as hard and twice as painful for me.

In my mind I'll be able to do an over 40 body building show one day but I lifted on 200mg of test for years and got no where fast no matter how many times I changed my program, worked with coaches, or "dialed in my diet."

Just ended up with more chronic pain then I started with and I look like an average gym dad. Which is annoying when you spend the bulk of every week lifting, dieting, and learning about lifting and dieting.

 

[Excel.exe]

I'm a 100% disabled combat veteran who likes lifting.

I don't know where you are from or who you been against but thank you for the service.

In my mind I'll be able to do an over 40 body building show one day but I lifted on 200mg of test for years and got no where fast no matter how many times I changed my program, worked with coaches, or "dialed in my diet."

I do not have any experience in training with disabled or what they need to work with but if you are open to someone giving unbiased feedback on your diet, routine and all the other lifestyle that needs to be followed then feel free to message me in private.