day one of attempting to restart

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by chap, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. chap

    chap Junior Member

    phil: I'm thinking with most things hormonal, is that smaller more frequent is better than larger less frequent.... perhaps you might have better luck starting with a much smaller daily dose and sticking with it or increasing it very gradually?

    I guess it also becomes more complicated when you are on exo test etc.,... I know for me that I really enjoy feeling pretty much level all the time whereas before it was a never ending balancing act and up and down roller coaster ride when I was injecting.
  2. HeadDoc

    HeadDoc Psychologist

    I think that your first precaution sets the stage for the later==even when injecting.
  3. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Member

    I feel level just now that I have lowered the T dose from 64 mgs. every 3 days to 40 my E2 is much less a problem and I am finding it hard to find the right dose of arimidex. I am doing T shots every 3 days and the 2 days in between I do hcg 400 IU's and I feel that we will have to lower the dose of HCG. As my treatement for low cortisol and now on Armour for my thyroid my T levels are going up. I think my body is not using the T meds up so fast not that I am on meds of low cortisol and thyroid. If this keeps up I may get my dose down so low that I will not need to control E2.
  4. Vforcer2

    Vforcer2 Junior Member

    I think you would do even better if you did your hcg at 100iu per day. It seems it would control the large influx of aromatase.
  5. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Member

    I did do 100 IU's a day and it was with the t shots every 3 days I may later try to drop the T shots and just do HCG 100mgs everyday. But doing HCG and a T shot the same day drove up E2.
  6. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    Hi Phil.... Thank you for asking... I've been doing very well actually. I have finished Dr. John's protocol two weeks ago. He doesn't want me to do bloodwork until 21 days from the protocol end.

    So far, I've been feeling great. I feel like I'm recovering nicely. I have had no anxiety and no depression. Even the ol' pop quiz feeling is a thing of the past. My energy is up and mood is good. Although I don't have a nagging libido, I can easily get turned on and can perform with good erection.

    It would be interesting to see where my numbers land upon doing bloodwork.
  7. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Member

    This is great news I pray it all works out well for you.
  8. chap

    chap Junior Member

    Been a couple of weeks on the very low dose arimidex protocal and I must say I am extremely impressed with the results. Taking a very small amount of arimidex every day seems to make just the right amount of difference without causing a yoyo rebound or fluctuating problems... I feel pretty even all the time and feel hormonally stable.
  9. Have you taken arimidex in the past, Chap? You said that you think testosterone alters aromatase, so you think testosterone use results in permanently higher levels of aromatase?
    I've seen guys who have done a few steroid cycles, and then go clean for extended periods.
    Their bodies always look softer than before they started testosterone. I guess this is because they have a higher estrogen/testosterone ratio when they stop testosterone.
    Do you think this is typical? Is this what happened to you?
  10. chap

    chap Junior Member

    been a long time since my last update, been busy and stuff

    well, my low dose arimidex experiment only went on for a couple of weeks, for some reason I was feeling run down, and decided I was going to get off of everything, and let my system come to some sort of equilibrium over time

    I have been off of any hormonals for a couple of months now and am doing ok.

    I've been kind of falling into a kind of relaxed normalcy, pretty much on an even keel everyday, whereas my last 10 years was much more up and down and energetic, now I am much more reflective and content to live a mellow lifestyle. When doing testosterone in the past there was definitely a much greater drive to go out and achieve, whether it be in relationships or money or competitions and athletic improvement. I feel pretty healthy overall though. I think trying to live a life striving to be superman was an unhealthy path to follow for me.

    Sexual function is good and reliable. Everyday is no problem, but the drive is not very urgent at all, once a week would be completely fine. Probably pretty normal at this age.
  11. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Member

    This is great news that you found a place in your life that works for you. Have you or are you going to get tested to see whats going on I thinky you should.
  12. hackskii

    hackskii Member

    Glad you posted again chap.
    I like to see the old threads now and again.

    I know what you mean about the drive. I actually miss that the most but don't really think about it and that is probably the saddest part.
  13. Since you're back Chap, I'll bump this question.
  14. chap

    chap Junior Member

    good question

    I know that a leading Dr. we know of has posted before that he thought that it was a possibility in what he was seeing in his practice, that former steroid users seemed to have a 'permanent' or at least long term higher aromatase levels

    this seems to happen with aging normally too... I wonder if the aromatase 'up regulation' that seems to occur is following the same modality as in normal aging?

    to answer your question about myself, I am still pretty lean, but not quite as tight as when I was younger... so the persisting effects of the steroid use that I am keeping is definitely more muscle mass (not nearly all though), but I do not quite have the leanness of youth that I had before steroids

    this points out another problem in coming up with a definitive answer to the questions, it is very difficult to sort out what is due to drugs and what is due to natural aging (body composition, libido, etc.)
  15. chap

    chap Junior Member

    and I do plan on doing full blood testing within a month or so, I will report here
  16. Madball99

    Madball99 Junior Member

    Chap, you said you have less drive no than when you were taking test in the past. Did you mean cycles or TRT ??

    How is your overall drive, energy, libido, and sense of well being now natural as opposed to being on TRT ? Why did you stop ? How would you compare how you feel now as opposed to being on TRT and or hcg ??

  17. IWantMyHPTA

    IWantMyHPTA Junior Member

    Bump for chap. Did you get that test done? How are things now?
  18. chap

    chap Junior Member

    I did make a major decision a number of months ago.

    I came to a decision that I was going to stop all hormonal intervention... no serms, no ai, no test. I know that I was fine before I ever touched AAS, although the aas definitely changed me... if I could turn back time I would have never touched them.

    anyways, it's been 5 months or so since I did any serms or ai. Id have to look back for dates but it seems that its been a little longer than a year since I injected testosterone.

    I am at a stasis now that is livable. I am far from feeling like superman, and I am far from being the man I was when I was in my 20's before I ever did aas. But it feels healthy. I feel like I am even most of the time. Blood pressure feels normal. Emotions are even. Sexual function is slow to get started but very good once going, volume is very good. Desire and 'urge' are probably normal for a 40 something year old guy. Maybe desire is on the low side, I really don't care much about it to work to pursue sex. But function is much better than it was while on testosterone.

    Workout recovery and leanness are suprisingly good. I feel as if testosterone may be on the low normal side, but estrogen must be on the normal side too. (going by feel on this, knowing how I felt from previous blood testng through the years)

    So to summarize, I feel good. I don't have a strong drive that I did when younger, sexually or in general life' but I feel healthy and relaxed (maybe a bit in a chess club drinking tea kind of way lol, funny way to describe it but it feels that way, I feel like Im in a healthy middle aged state, completely different from the healthy 20 something year old state I remember)

    hope this long post gives you guys some insights into my experiences
    Im at a different place in my life, and it is hormonal, Im sure if I started doing a bunch of aas that my life would be different, different priorities, different drive, but it would be like entering the fast line again, and it wouldn't necessarily be healthy. I feel like I can live the way I am living now, mellowed out and accepting the changes of my age.

    I think if I were to experiment, GH or similar ideas would be the only interest to me, it feels like manipulating testosterone directly is just too low down in the axis and brings all the associated problems of an impossible juggling act. For me anyways. Maybe others are happy with their path as well? For me, and the place in my life I am at, slow, steady and no drugs are working.
  19. chap

    chap Junior Member

    to emphasize:

    serms and stuff helped me to get ready to recover and to start recovery, but I think getting off everything and waiting, months and months, is the only way to true recovery. I feel better now then I did a month ago. It's been a long year +. It took what seemed like forever, and maybe I am still recovering.

    Getting older adds to the variables in determining if our recovery goals are possible.
  20. wildfox

    wildfox Junior Member

    CHAP: thanks so much for these recent posts.

    I have really struggled during my time on HRT. While it has improved strength and libido somewhat, I've noticed that I have become rather obsessed about the whole thing, worried, actually, and I feel like the real issue lies elsewhere, as in accepting that I'm getting older and that I just need to relax about all of this.

    I've been thinking a lot about asking my doctor to help me see if I can restart myself producing hormones endogenously. While taking HRT has helped some things, I still feel very out of balance.

    I wish I could talk to you in person or "realtime" about your experiences.

    One thing I'm very worried about is that if I were to stop HRT, that I would "crash" emotionally or become very depressed. I just can't put that kind of stress on my wife and kids. I need to be stable, but even on HRT I don't feel very stable. My gut says "get off that stuff", but then I worry about going back to feeling like crap like I did before.