day one of attempting to restart

Discussion in 'Men's Health Forum' started by chap, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. 1cc

    1cc Junior Member

    I think you would have to use quite a lot of cream to have an effect. So it is very unlikely that the cream would cause this. Being relaxed however would help, and since exzema is many times stress related, then perhaps you were more relaxed than usual.
  2. chap

    chap Junior Member

    still doing great

    age: mid 40s

    able to have sex once per day (two on a real good day... but that takes alot)

    function and orgasm quality is excellent

    a little bit of ab fat covering what used to be a six pack, but that has to be normal for my age, still work out alot and eat well so I am in good shape

    take a tribulus etc mix once in awhile, and very small dose of cialis every 4 or 5 days (break a pill into quarters or smaller so very small dose seems to work with no sides), and good multivitamins, that's it
  3. thenxtgrt1

    thenxtgrt1 Junior Member long were you off HRT when you began clomid/nolva combo?
  4. chap

    chap Junior Member

    remembering back, it was a few weeks off of any test and within a week of hcg only
  5. chap

    chap Junior Member

    feel pretty good health wise

    no strong desire, can function once a day or so but no real pressing urge, can take it or leave it and no real urge to go out and work for it anymore (ie. getting too lazy to chase after women lately, maybe normal for mid 40's?)

    started a very small dose of selegeline the last few days, will see how that goes
  6. HeadDoc

    HeadDoc Psychologist

    thanks for following up on this Chap.
  7. MuscleBound1337

    MuscleBound1337 Junior Member

    Did you ever run that bloodwork chap?
  8. chap

    chap Junior Member

    no bloodwork

    I am convinced that most of the libido issue has much less to do with testosterone and all that stuff and alot more to do with brain chemistry, which of course is involved with test and estrogens etc,, but I think that is why libido is such a problem once it gets bad even with people that have normal testosterone estrogen levels

    it seems that it can take a long time for the brain chemistry to get back on track and maybe desensitized receptors to start functioning properly again, and any quick fixes and paniced attempts to solve the problem can create the yo-yo effect and continuing problems

    I am doing better than ever, libido is pretty good, not like 19 years old chasing every girl you see libido, but function and desire is there every day and orgasm function is 100% perfect, as good as it ever was even when younger

    all I have been taking in the last months is vitamins and such, but in the last month I added acetyl l carnitine and didn't see any difference right away, but I can say for sure that it helped as it started to get noticeable 3 or 4 weeks in....... I am convinced that it helps and will continue with 500mg a day or so
  9. chap

    chap Junior Member

    things feel like they have taken a downturn libido wise this past week or two, starting to second guess myself and wondering if I was on the alcar for too long, stopped taking it a couple of days ago.... function is still ok but feeling ok otherwise, mind is clear and feel healthy

    I feel like I have aged alot in the past couple of years, visibly, like the deep skin tissue in my face is really giving away my age, it is something that is distressing in a way, as it seems with aging that once you age you can maybe hope to stop or slow the aging process, but you can't reverse it once it happens already, so I can't help but think that I am missing an important time to get on some kind of holy grail HGH plan or something like that, and can't help but think that I should have been on hgh 2 years ago, and I would still pass for 29 alot of the time

    in the last 2 or 3 years I have gone from people guessing my age at 27-30 to now where the consistent guess from people is that I am late 30's to early 40's (which is what I am, but it bothers me that in the last 2 years my face has aged in what people think I look from 27 to 40)

    I am thinking I should have done things so much differently in the last decade, and I worry that every day that ticks on by that I am missing something important right now too :confused:
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2008
  10. hackskii

    hackskii Member

    I am 49, I dont look it, but I am having more injuries than ever.

    I do have a bit of a diffrent slant on this. I welcome aging, due to the fact that I am glad I made it as far as I have.
    My girlfriend is aging hard she is 52, it is tearing her up to see herself age. But, I am still attracted to her, I love her for who she is not what she is.
    If you take the time to smell the roses, things just may be put into a diffrent perspective.

    We can be a bit hard on ourselves at times.
  11. BigAk

    BigAk Junior Member

    chap.... What a coincidence.... I was just getting ready to post about how my libido took on a dive downward in the past couple of weeks... It's funny that you're in the same boat now; but comforting somehow to know I'm not alone in this.. lol .. Could it be the change in weather lately?? It's starting to get a bit cold and the sun is leaving early??? I don't know.. .But man... sex has been the last thing on mind lately. Luckily my wife feels the same way lately.

    I saw that you're inquiring about bloodwork labs.. Are you thinking about doing it now??

  12. chap

    chap Junior Member

    yes, I am thinking of taking bloodwork, even though it might just throw me for a loop in worrying about numbers on a paper when I am actually feeling pretty healthy overall (other than the disinterested libido lately).

    I am curious because I feel so strong in the gym lately and recovery is good, yet libido has tanked, so I wonder just what the numbers might tell (I am guessing that my testosterone is fine due to my gym strength and feeling good, but the libido thing is a mystery as it always tends to be, sometimes I wonder if sensitive receptors in our brains have gotten fried and we are doomed to have difficult ups and downs forever no matter how well our pituitary axis starts working)
  13. thrombus

    thrombus Member


    Because I am still developing a plan of low testosterone treatment and highly prefer "kickstarting" natural production to TRT, this thread was very intriguing. Although, it appears that your SERB-based kickstart did not meet your expecations, what are your thoughts about an hcg-based kickstart attempt? My actual plan is to lower estradiol (still need to take sensitive E2 test) with Liquidex and, pending results, start HCG. Thoughts?
  14. chap

    chap Junior Member

    I'm not an expert, I am only able to give my own experiences. I don't like hcg much, I felt like it boosts estrogen more than it boosts testosterone, and it does it in a way that AI's didn't seem to help. hcg is also more of a rollercoaster than anything else, and whenever I was doing hcg, especially when I tried to do it by itself with no test, I felt really unhealthy

    as far as the comment about meeting expectations, I think expectations are the problem. We are so concerned with sexual function and virility, that everything else could be perfect and we would consider it a failure, in other words if we feel strong and healthy and on an even keel, but not getting erections, we would consider that a total failure. I think the problem is that some of the variables, especially with brain chemistry, are affected overall by our total hormone mix and also not necessarily instantly repaired when everything else may be ok.
  15. hackskii

    hackskii Member

    If you are partially restored then clomid may be a good option.
    Clomid @ 100mg a day for 5 to 7 days doubles LH output, and can increase FSH by 20% to 50%.
  16. broken7

    broken7 Junior Member

  17. thrombus

    thrombus Member

    Thanks for your comments. I agree that a delicate balance is required to achieve good overall mental and physical health. Throw in a perceived sexual dysfunction and, yeah, you've got a major complication. In fact, without the sexual dysfunction, many of us, myself included, would likely not be motivated to seek TRT advice or treatment. After all, what greater irony is there than to appear healthy and virile, but unable to satisfactorily perform sexually?

    I realize that you didn't get lab work done, but did you ever evaluate yourself for adrenal or thyroid health according to the self tests at Those durn Adrenals!! | Stop The Thyroid Madness ?

    I personally failed all 4 of the tests (including a daily average body temperature swinging back and forth from 96.9 to 97.4 over the last 5 days) and have now decided to address adrenal first, then thyroid issues before initiating any testosterone treatment. Apparently, successful testosterone treatment has a much higher rate of success when adrenal and thyroid glands are healthy.
  18. chap

    chap Junior Member

    I looked at that adrenal link you posted and I think only the ones about sleep really applied to me, I don't think my adrenals are working as well as they were 20 years ago. It could be from caffeine every day in some form though, and maybe from not getting a full nights consistent sleep every day, I don't know.

    I feel ok of late, only taking multivitamin now and just going through life's motions. No real desire to chase any women lately, so those days of being in my 20's are long gone I guess. Other than that I feel pretty even and ok, so that is good.
  19. jpswede

    jpswede Junior Member

    It took me several hours to do so but I have read every post in this thread and I see that it has been months since anyone has posted anything which is kinda disappointing to me. Anyway, I was hoping that Chap and others who have taken SERM's would have done new labs by now but I guess they have not. That is too bad as I suspect all of us readers wanted to know the results. My guess is that they were afraid they would be disappointed with the results they would get and would start obsessing over them again and mess things up again.

    Another point is that Chap was on the right track about libido. Dopamine does have a huge influence on libido and orgasms. Besides the dopamine agonists, Wellbutrin can also improve libido, especially in women. I am also sure that Chap's ability to maintain his erections comes from his taking cialis every 4 or 5 days and not from whatever his testosterone level is. I would bet that his erections would go away if he stopped the Cialis because I know it does great for me and I am over 50. I just had my Total T done and it was 261 which is low but, like another person who posted, my sex drive is still as high as it was when I was 20 and I am able to orgasm twice a day with no problem so I guess my Dopamine levels must be very good and I do not even take anything.

    FYI - I was on Testim a few years ago because of the low T and ED issues and I too, thought that increasing my T would cure everything then but it screwed my whole system up. I then tried clomid 25 mg a day to fix myself and it worked for about a month but then it made me worse so I had to switch to tamoxifen 10 mg twice a day which worked OK. It got my levels back up and now I am back to "normal" but my Total T is still as low as it was when I was having ED issues (it was 227 3 years ago).

    NOW HERE IS MY POINT: If I do not take Cialis every 4 or 5 days like Chap (or so I thought I read), I can not get an erection! I have the desire and I can orgasm when I can maintain an erection but without the Cialis, it is a lost cause which I blame on the low Total T. But since I do take the Cialis, if I even think about sex or see a hot lady, I get easily get an erection which in turn increases my desire and I go and find my wife lol!

    So, there is still something missing for me and I am guessing now that it has to do with low NO levels. But for now, I don't mind spending the $20 a month on Cialis (from Canada) because it works great and I can have sex anytime I feel like it. Anyway, maybe someone will post again if they have any comments or ideas. Thanks for the forum.
  20. jpswede

    jpswede Junior Member

    Just in case anyone is reading this thread, I wanted to try to elaborate my history better in case it would help anyone.

    Up until 35, I really enjoyed and was able to ejaculate 3 times a day (morning, noon, and evening). Morning and evening would usually be sex with my wife but the nooner would usually be masturbating in the bathroom at work (hey, I was at lunch you know!). I was always able to ejaculate quickly and easily (usually within 5 minutes at work) which helped at lot lol. I had good volume and length on my first cumshot although it would decrease of course with each shot. I would usually shoot about 5 - 7 times and as far as 2 feet (yes, on my face many times) on the first shot but by the last shot, it would usually only be about 6 inches in length.

    However, around 35, I started experiencing a big delay in my refractory period and a slight decrease in my libido, as well as a decrease in the length of my cumshots. I started not feeling an overwhelming desire to jack off at noon like usual so I started skipping that. My first cumshots were also down to only about a foot unless I was really, really stimulated. I would also only shoot 3 or 4 times. This did not happen all at once of course but gradually over a couple of years. I just thought it was me getting older since I could tell that my testicles (which used to be huge and the size of walnuts no joke), were getting smaller although they were still average size by then I'm guessing (the size of average grapes, medium marbles).

    But then I had a vasectomy at 40 and things got even worse. Maybe it was a coincidence but at that time things did happen immediately. I called the Dr who did the surgery but he told me I was crazy. My first ejaculation after the surgery was a DRY CUMSHOT! I couldn't believe it! Anyway, since then, I was only wanting sex just once a day and whenever I did masturbate, I would only shoot 2 times and only about 4 or 5 inches even on my first shot. I was very depressed. My orgasm used to last 20 seconds easy and now it was down to about 5 seconds so I started looking for an answer. By then, my testicles were the size of small marbles.

    So I tried for 5 years to find an answer but never found a Dr who would help me or even do any blood work because they all said if I wanted sex once a day every day and had no ED symptoms, then I was doing great for my age! So I decided to try and treat myself. I went straight to TRT because I finally got blood work done and my Total T was at 227. I didn't know to do free T or anything else. At first, it worked great. My testicles really did start getting bigger and within 2 weeks, they were back to the size of medium marbles. My Total T was way up to 820. I was back to shooting 2 feet (sometimes) and usually 5 times each episode and even up to 3 times a day. My wife was amazed. But after 2 weeks, my testicles started hurting really badly right after I applied the Testim. They would then get soft and I could tell that they were shrinking again but I continued on using it because my doctor said that it was normal.

    Big mistake on my part for listening to that idiot! My testicles continued to shrink to the size of raisins although my libido was still great. However, my volume was way down again and so was my shooting length. My Total T was still high at 720 but I finally asked the right question and was told that I would now have to stay on Testim for the rest of my life which I didn't want to do.

    So I quit Testim cold turkey. My testicles gradually increased to the size of small grapes but I began to have ED problems. I finally found out about clomid and Novaldex and decided to try Clomid first. It worked great for about a month at 25mg a day (it was increasing my testicle size) but then it did what Testim did and started to shrink my testicles so I cut it down to 12.5 mg a day but it still shrunk them so I stopped it and went to Novaldex 20mg a day which worked OK. It increased my testicle size some and increased my Total T to 610 while I was on it. My ED symptoms went away and my volume, etc returned.

    But I eventually quit the Novaldex and so my testicle size went down but luckily just a little. My T went below 300 again (261) and my ED symptoms came back but luckily my libido was still great. I then discovered cialis and what a miracle drug that is. It cured my ED symptoms immediately and I found that it lasted 4 or 5 days! That was unbelievable since viagra had only lasted a few hours.

    SO, I had a choice to make. Either take Novaldex every day and be almost normal or take Cialis every 5 days with the same results. Since I didn't know the long term effects of Novaldex, I chose the Cialis. So far, so good, after 2 years. My T is stable, the size of my testicles are stable, my volume though is lower and I don't shoot as far but I have no refractory period on Cialis for the first couple of days and that is a lot better than the ejaculation/cum issues.

    What I mean by no refractory period is that even after I ejaculate, I stay hard until I ejaculate again which usually takes about another 20 minutes. Even then, I still stay hard! My wife loves it lol. I return to normal after 4 or 5 days (meaning that I get soft after the first ejaculation) and so then I know its time for another Cialis pill.

    So that's it. I'm 50 and I have sex once a day. I usually try to cum twice and my wife cums 3 or 4 or even 5 times to my once or twice so she is very happy to say the least lol. I think the key to my good libido is the fact that I get excited knowing that I can get an erection and the thought of possibly cumming twice that day. I like to get oral first and then please her 4 or 5 times :).

    However, I sometimes think I am "cured" and so I don't take Cialis every 4 or 5 days but when I don't, I can't get an erection at all. This then decreases my interest in sex and then my wife complains lol. I have tried Zinc, Goat Weed, Arginine, etc but nothing has worked that great so I am just going to stick to Cialis for now although if I could find another way to increase my NO, I would try it. And although I would love to have my T way up, I guess I will live with what I have right now. One final thought, I was also able to stay hard after I ejaculated the first time when my T was way up but not every time. I also got quite a but of acne and terrible mood swings, short temper, angry, etc so it had a lot more side effects than Cialis. The only one with Cialis is a headache.

    What's funny is that all I wanted to do was fix my ED and luckily I have, so I am satisfied I guess although the ONE thing that is still deficient is that my orgasms are not MIND BLOWING like they are when my T is way up so I don't know. I may go back to the Novaldex for awhile lol (I sound like Chap now lol). I will post again if I get any positive feedback. ")