Experienced gh users question.

[songsofpyramids]

Side effects = dose related; not necessarily pharma vs UGL

I find there’s an adjustment period too. I used to get numb hands but haven’t anymore after a month at 8iu for a lol month and after 3 months titrating up, I tried multiple of my batches of gh and didn’t get sides with any of them at 8iu where I was previously getting hella numb hands.

 

[AlexDavis43]

There have been several instances over the last however long its been since you've started posting frequently here and at ugbb, that I'm convinced you just enjoy stirring the pot or that your goal is to confuse as many noobs as you can.

Every couple of weeks you'll post the stuff that has me jumping in here tonight. You believe the negative sides guys experience when running generic gh are good indicators that you've got a quality product?

I know you're gas lighting and trolling when you post about the brainwashed "pharma junkies" who also believe that USA Pharma Grade GH produces better results with fewer neg sides.

If you were trying to be reasonable its more than clear that guys with real experience running usa pharm ghrade gh who post about experiencing little to no neg sides have a history in the Commujnity as being reasonable. They are also respected for the most part.

Do you believe I'm full of it? I know you've read my posts about the things I've posted here tonight and in the past. You given me thumbs up.

Are you just trying to irritate guys when you post that you've given pharm grade and generic gh a fair shake and you've concluded that there's no difference? I know its not true. Are you ever going to find another subject to focus on? This shit is getting old.

got mad about this huh

 

[songsofpyramids]

Do you believe I'm full of it?

I don’t believe you’re full of it, but I do think a lot of you old heads that have big biases against generic gh are reliving experiences with the crap/underdosed/fake gh of the past and many of you seem to have not tried the newer generations of generic gh that really are on point. I’ve also jumped between pharma and generic without any massive difference between the two. I get virtually no sides on the multiple generics I’ve tried up to 8iu, same as no real sides on the pharma I’ve tried.

Can I ask how long it’s been since you’ve tried a generic?

 

[Obeast88]

Depends on GH response. You’d be pretty fucking surprised how many people get no increase to IGF-I at 10 IU daily.

Wow that’s crazy. Are you saying people that have taken less than 10 iu and switched to 10 or just people trying it all together. I need to go back and look bc I can’t remember what I scored on my serum igf1 test a few years back on 10 iu but I’m almost positive it was a pretty good number. But thanks for that info and response I was just reading you thread again for like the third time trying to remember everything and understand lol

 

[Obeast88]

There have been several instances over the last however long its been since you've started posting frequently here and at ugbb, that I'm convinced you just enjoy stirring the pot or that your goal is to confuse as many noobs as you can.

Every couple of weeks you'll post the stuff that has me jumping in here tonight. You believe the negative sides guys experience when running generic gh are good indicators that you've got a quality product?

I know you're gas lighting and trolling when you post about the brainwashed "pharma junkies" who also believe that USA Pharma Grade GH produces better results with fewer neg sides.

If you were trying to be reasonable its more than clear that guys with real experience running usa pharm ghrade gh who post about experiencing little to no neg sides have a history in the Commujnity as being reasonable. They are also respected for the most part.

Do you believe I'm full of it? I know you've read my posts about the things I've posted here tonight and in the past. You given me thumbs up.

Are you just trying to irritate guys when you post that you've given pharm grade and generic gh a fair shake and you've concluded that there's no difference? I know its not true. Are you ever going to find another subject to focus on? This shit is getting old.

Yeah i agree with you on the pharma gh. I know it’s far better for less sides but as for as results I can get the same off generics at a lower price. When I have the funds right I would like to run a consistent year of pharma to see how they really compare.

 

[Sector]

Depends on GH response. You’d be pretty fucking surprised how many people get no increase to IGF-I at 10 IU daily.

This actually surprises me a lot.

I would think GH dose and IGF score would be somewhat linear, up until the point of diminishing returns when the graph would flatten

 

[benfrankparkway]

I mean I was already taking both glp and metformin, but now that I'm supposedly taking more gh, I've been using more metformin.

I have no idea how many ius I'm taking currently after the crappy serum tests. I have the supremes so I'm doing 1/3 the vial which should be 10iu, but soon I'm going up to 1/2 the vial which should be 15iu, but I doubt that's how much actual iu I'm taking. It's probably much less than that.

Originally was doing 6iu/day, but after the recent tests I bumped it to 10. If nothing, then I'll do 15. Once I run out I'm switching to TP 1/2 vial of the mavues (so it'll be 6iu) a day.

That will give me a good comparison to go off. If 6iu of TP is hitting me harder than 10-15iu of k4l, then I'll know with certainty that something was off with the k4l supremes if I'm running a fractional dose of tps with better results and more sides

Were you not getting any results from the k4l? ive been reading a bit of controversy over the whole thing.
Currently I am on 3iu of the Deluxe. No sides compared to the opti grey tops, with opti I got all kind of body pain and water retention. However, with the k4l I have not gotten the great sleep as I did with opti's.
Also I am on a cut and feel like weight and body recomp isnt going that well. I was hoping I would be further along (leaner) with current diet and training in addition to hgh. I also have supremes, and like you I may go up higher in dose to see if results increase.

 

[Sector]

Were you not getting any results from the k4l? ive been reading a bit of controversy over the whole thing.
Currently I am on 3iu of the Deluxe. No sides compared to the opti grey tops, with opti I got all kind of body pain and water retention. However, with the k4l I have not gotten the great sleep as I did with opti's.
Also I am on a cut and feel like weight and body recomp isnt going that well. I was hoping I would be further along (leaner) with current diet and training in addition to hgh. I also have supremes, and like you I may go up higher in dose to see if results increase.

I mean I'm getting good results but I'm also on a good AAS stack and my diet has been rock solid, so it's hard to attribute the difference to the GH.

Haven't done an igf1 test because tren was in the system so my feels report is kind of useless right now. Been running the supremes at 6iu/day, just went up to 10iu a day, then will do 15iu a day and then switch to TP.

Once I switch to TP I'll have a good benchmark to compare it to.

I won't be ordering more of k4l though

 

[benfrankparkway]

I mean I'm getting good results but I'm also on a good AAS stack and my diet has been rock solid, so it's hard to attribute the difference to the GH.

Haven't done an igf1 test because tren was in the system so my feels report is kind of useless right now. Been running the supremes at 6iu/day, just went up to 10iu a day, then will do 15iu a day and then switch to TP.

Once I switch to TP I'll have a good benchmark to compare it to.

I won't be ordering more of k4l though

curious to your change up. Just because of the controversy I won't be ordering from k4l either. I wanted to go back to optis but it was crippling me. Keep us posted on your results.

 

[Eddie.]

This actually surprises me a lot.

I would think GH dose and IGF score would be somewhat linear, up until the point of diminishing returns when the graph would flatten

Chase with 18 IU serostim a day gets a average IGF score, basically pretty low for the dose. I don't remember exactly the number but something like 400? But he blows up..while on the other hand there are guys with 6 IU scoring 700. Honestly i'm pretty confused with the IGF readings, some say it's not that relevant as we think. IGF in the bloodstream is one thing, we just don't know how much is going to the tissue.

 

[Sector]

curious to your change up. Just because of the controversy I won't be ordering from k4l either. I wanted to go back to optis but it was crippling me. Keep us posted on your results.

Definitely will man. I've heard great things with TP. I'm pretty excited to try it honestly

 

[Sector]

Chase with 18 IU serostim a day gets a average IGF score, basically pretty low for the dose. I don't remember exactly the number but something like 400? But he blows up..while on the other hand there are guys with 6 IU scoring 700. Honestly i'm pretty confused with the IGF readings, some say it's not that relevant as we think. IGF in the bloodstream is one thing, we just don't know how much is going to the tissue.

Yeah it seems there's a lot of individual response to igf1 reading and like you said some of it gets shuttled into the muscle like with tren. I wonder if there's other compounds with a similar but lesser effect on pushing igf1 into the muscles, hence the lower bloodstream readings

 

[Type-IIx]

This actually surprises me a lot.

I would think GH dose and IGF score would be somewhat linear, up until the point of diminishing returns when the graph would flatten

There is an important genetic factor. I write about this in Bolus. Between populations, hyper- vs. hypo- response varies tremendously.

 

[Type-IIx]

10 IU could theoretically produce up to 1000 IGF-1 but you rarely see that. Too many things interfere with GH-IGF1 conversion.

IGF-1 response is not a good indicator of GH quality.

Correct. The serum IGF-I test is for GH response. HPLC is for GH quality. Serum GH test is useless for bodybuilders — it’s for confirming acromegaly, and is one of several indicators of GH deficiency.

 

[BigTomJ]

Wow that’s crazy. Are you saying people that have taken less than 10 iu and switched to 10 or just people trying it all together. I need to go back and look bc I can’t remember what I scored on my serum igf1 test a few years back on 10 iu but I’m almost positive it was a pretty good number. But thanks for that info and response I was just reading you thread again for like the third time trying to remember everything and understand lol

remember, serum IGF-1 is not really a super relevant marker.
serum IGF-1 blood tests only test whats in blood systemically, not locally in the muscle, which is what really matters.

If im not mistaken, igf-1 testing also doesnt differentiate between freely circulating IGF-1 and IGF bound in igf binding proteins.

 

[BigTomJ]

There is an important genetic factor. I write about this in Bolus. Between populations, hyper- vs. hypo- response varies tremendously.

Correct. The serum IGF-I test is for GH response. HPLC is for GH quality. Serum GH test is useless for bodybuilders — it’s for confirming acromegaly, and is one of several indicators of GH deficiency.

Whats your opinion on the role of e2 serum levels and IGF-1 conversion?

 

[User039825923]

I notice a big difference going from 4 to 8 in terms of water retention, pumps (from water retention), and blood pressure (rising). I may stay a little leaner but it’s not by a massive amount. It’ll take a little time because you’ll need to grow those new cells but yes running 8iu for short blasts then taking the time to develop those cells will be beneficial. It just worried about fat gain, 4-6iu is more than enough

Do you think GH without AAS is worth it? Like for lean bulking? and what would be disadvantages of 8IUs? cant a BP med be taken?

 

[User039825923]

The general concensus seems to be the higher the better for both fat loss, muscle building and recovery purposes

Just watch the blood pressure, blood sugar, and potentially t4 thyroid levels when going higher.

I'd get some metformin to help control blood glucose and to increase insulin sensitivity.

T4? What happens with T4? And also are there ancilliaries for it? Btw what do you think of Berberine compared to Metformin?

 

[Sector]

T4? What happens with T4? And also are there ancilliaries for it? Btw what do you think of Berberine compared to Metformin?

Gh can downregulate t4 production (lower t4)

a lot of people swear by berberine, seems to work well for a lot of people. I'll probably give it a try in the near future, I just don't have any experience with it. I'm sure others can chime in on this

 

[Sector]

T4? What happens with T4? And also are there ancilliaries for it? Btw what do you think of Berberine compared to Metformin?

actually im going to order some berberine now. why not