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Anabolic Steroids
High dose anavar?
- Thread starter Kamala
- Start date
If you've got real, accurately dosed var, then you won't need to go to 70-100mg ED.
Those who take 70-100mg probably have underdosed gear.
And if 15mg for 5 weeks is enough to shut down your own endogenous test, (I think Scally posted the link to that study) taking 70-100 would be overkill.
Pericles
New Member
I stick to around 60 or so mg's. However, I know a guy who swears by 100 mgs.
Dorian supposedly used a 250 mg's a day.
What I think happens, is the 60 mgs has double the (good) effects of 30.
When you start going beyond 60 the the returns diminish.
Dorian supposedly used a 250 mg's a day.
What I think happens, is the 60 mgs has double the (good) effects of 30.
When you start going beyond 60 the the returns diminish.
If Dorian used 240mg of Var a day his source SUCKED, lol! Only on AAS forums are dosages of this nature (greater than 50 mg QD) discussed as a means to ensure a positive nitrogen balance and enhanced anabolism. Var has been very well studied and utilized in medicine and there is NO BENEFIT at dosages greater than 40-50 mg/day, (based on a pharmaceutical grade product)!
jim
jim
Since Var is one of several DHT ANALOGS it's not converted to E-2 which also limits volume retention. At doses above 20 QD increases in LFT's begin to appear and at higher doses the hepatic effects mimic that of other oral AAS. Nice oral IMO, with complimentary synergism when combined with just about any other NON-DHT derived ANABOLIC agent.
jim
jim
J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. 2006 Mar;41(3):304-14.
Oxandrolone in the treatment of HIV-associated weight loss in men: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.
Grunfeld C, Kotler DP, Dobs A, Glesby M, Bhasin S.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To evaluate the efficacy and safety of oxandrolone in promoting body weight and body cell mass (BCM) gain in HIV-associated weight loss.
METHODS:
Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Two hundred sixty-two HIV-infected men with documented 10% to 20% weight loss or body mass index < or =20 kg/m were randomized to placebo or to 20, 40, or 80 mg of oxandrolone daily. After 12 weeks, subjects were allowed to receive open-label oxandrolone at a dose of 20 mg for another 12 weeks.
RESULTS:
Body weight increased in all groups, including the group receiving placebo, during the double-blind phase (1.1 +/- 2.7, 1.8 +/- 3.9, 2.8 +/- 3.3, and 2.3 +/- 2.9 kg in placebo and 20-, 40-, and 80-mg oxandrolone groups, respectively; all P < 0.014 vs. baseline). BCM increased from baseline in all groups (0.45 +/- 1.7, 0.91 +/- 2.2, 1.5 +/- 2.5, and 1.8 +/- 1.8 kg in placebo and 20-, 40-, and 80-mg oxandrolone groups, respectively). At 12 weeks, only the gain in weight at the 40-mg dose of oxandrolone and the gain in BCM at the 40- and 80-mg doses of oxandrolone were greater than those in the placebo group, however. Oxandrolone treatment was associated with significant suppression of sex hormone-binding globulin, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and total and free testosterone levels. Treatment was generally well tolerated but accompanied by significant increases in transaminases and low-density lipoprotein as well as decreases in high-density lipoprotein.
CONCLUSION:
Oxandrolone administration is effective in promoting dose-dependent gains in body weight and BCM in HIV-infected men with weight loss.
J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. 2006 Mar;41(3):304-14.
Oxandrolone in the treatment of HIV-associated weight loss in men: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.
Grunfeld C, Kotler DP, Dobs A, Glesby M, Bhasin S.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To evaluate the efficacy and safety of oxandrolone in promoting body weight and body cell mass (BCM) gain in HIV-associated weight loss.
METHODS:
Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Two hundred sixty-two HIV-infected men with documented 10% to 20% weight loss or body mass index < or =20 kg/m were randomized to placebo or to 20, 40, or 80 mg of oxandrolone daily. After 12 weeks, subjects were allowed to receive open-label oxandrolone at a dose of 20 mg for another 12 weeks.
RESULTS:
Body weight increased in all groups, including the group receiving placebo, during the double-blind phase (1.1 +/- 2.7, 1.8 +/- 3.9, 2.8 +/- 3.3, and 2.3 +/- 2.9 kg in placebo and 20-, 40-, and 80-mg oxandrolone groups, respectively; all P < 0.014 vs. baseline). BCM increased from baseline in all groups (0.45 +/- 1.7, 0.91 +/- 2.2, 1.5 +/- 2.5, and 1.8 +/- 1.8 kg in placebo and 20-, 40-, and 80-mg oxandrolone groups, respectively). At 12 weeks, only the gain in weight at the 40-mg dose of oxandrolone and the gain in BCM at the 40- and 80-mg doses of oxandrolone were greater than those in the placebo group, however. Oxandrolone treatment was associated with significant suppression of sex hormone-binding globulin, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and total and free testosterone levels. Treatment was generally well tolerated but accompanied by significant increases in transaminases and low-density lipoprotein as well as decreases in high-density lipoprotein.
CONCLUSION:
Oxandrolone administration is effective in promoting dose-dependent gains in body weight and BCM in HIV-infected men with weight loss.
Ah the devils in the details!
Although grade "III-IV transaminase elevations were noted in > 5% of those using 80mg dosage" ...... "only the 40mg dose of oxandrolone induced more than a 1.5kg
increase in weight of that obtained over placebo"
Moreover although the BCM increase in both the 40 AND 80mg dosing groups achieved statistical significance compared to placebo, the difference BETWEEN THE 40-80mg groups WAS NOT statistically significant!
JIM
Although grade "III-IV transaminase elevations were noted in > 5% of those using 80mg dosage" ...... "only the 40mg dose of oxandrolone induced more than a 1.5kg
increase in weight of that obtained over placebo"
Moreover although the BCM increase in both the 40 AND 80mg dosing groups achieved statistical significance compared to placebo, the difference BETWEEN THE 40-80mg groups WAS NOT statistically significant!
JIM
Sorry for the double post. I don't know what happened. It posted before I was ready to send it.
It's interesting that they found 40mg/day gave better weight gain than 80mg/day.
It seems to show 80mg/day is in the realm of diminishing returns and increasing sides.
Most of the studies I've looked at only used a dosage of 15 - 20mg/day and found good results.
I think it's possible the people claiming significantly better results on high doses (>50mg/day) are using underdosed Anavar or it's all in their head. Probably the latter.
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It's called "brain fog", LMAO!
LOL. You're right about that. If it gets any worse I expect I'll be getting a visit from the boys with the long-armed sports coat.
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Mdweller90
New Member
WHAT You are basically saying is that anavar at dose 40-50 mg is rather effective?
Attachments
If the half life is 8 hrs, then what is the "effective dose" of Anavar? If 40-50mg is the maximum range, is it necessary to keep that effective dose at adequate levels for 24 hours, without losing ground overnight? In other words, is it best to split the 40-50mgs into 3 times per day (20,20,10), or take 40-50mgs 3 times per day(40,40,40)?
Did I misread your post? are you actually asking if one should take 120mg of var ED??
I think you should re-read the scientific study.Actually my BP increases quite a bit while on Var.And i always use moderate doses(40-60 mg).I know its from Var cause i used test prop alone and when i add oxandrolone BP raises.
Pericles
New Member
If Dorian used 240mg of Var a day his source SUCKED, lol! Only on AAS forums are dosages of this nature (greater than 50 mg QD) discussed as a means to ensure a positive nitrogen balance and enhanced anabolism. Var has been very well studied and utilized in medicine and there is NO BENEFIT at dosages greater than 40-50 mg/day, (based on a pharmaceutical grade product)!
jim
Gee, what does Dorian know, he is only a 6 time Olympian champion. Do you think he got there w/ out good connections). Seriously Doc you are failing to understand one of the gifts that successful bodybuilders have: The ability to take, and utilize massive amounts of gear.
Were they included in the study?
What was the sample pool made from? As someone who taught statistics at the University level, I can tell you that 1500 people are needed to extrapolate to everyone. The sample was just regular Joes, not elite athletes. I don't have time today, but post them up and I wiil take a look at them tomorrow.Chris Duffey was the one who told me about his var usage (and also that he does 3 sustenon a day). Dorian guest posed at my last show (1994). I saw him backstage, and I said "Crazy Chris helped me prep for this show, and told me you take a whole bottle of var a day".
He looked up at me and chuckled...he did not look as if he were feeling right (probably the Thiazides).
I still don't know if he chuckled at the var question, or the fact that I got help from a guy who, immediately after winning his pro card (Chris) became a gay porn star.
I will say, he looked amazing when he went on stage.
Has anyone seen recent pics of him? He is 50, and though the face is a bit worn, his body still is impressive (no homo).
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Re: Re: High dose anavar?
So based on what you read in the study, Var was administered once daily? Some meds require 2 or 3 times daily in order to be more effective. Since a half life is 12 hours, & Var's half life is only 8 hours, is it more effective splitting the doses? Are there any studies done in regards to dosing times/amts, or do all studies make the assumption that Var will only be the system for 8 hrs? My question is,what is most effective? Try to maintain a steady level in one's system, or to have spikes?
So based on what you read in the study, Var was administered once daily? Some meds require 2 or 3 times daily in order to be more effective. Since a half life is 12 hours, & Var's half life is only 8 hours, is it more effective splitting the doses? Are there any studies done in regards to dosing times/amts, or do all studies make the assumption that Var will only be the system for 8 hrs? My question is,what is most effective? Try to maintain a steady level in one's system, or to have spikes?
Pericles
New Member
Lets take a look at the studies. Hopefully Jim will post them up.
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