This thread is hilarious. You think there is something other than "bro science" going on here? But, by all means please continue. I need a good laugh in between doing my taxes.
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You're right about broscience going on but I don't see the hilarity. I thought this might be an informative discussion but as usual, it got derailed by some BULLSHIT about what Dorian Yates "might" have said and some guy's anecdotal experience while evidence is dismissed. I thought I might be on bodybuilding.com for a second, not Meso. Broscience indeed!
PC
Why do you insist the study posted by CBS involved AIDs rather than HIV patients?
Or perhaps you DON'T know the difference? Because from a study perspective it's very important!
This study clearly demonstrates what the DRUG Anavar does and at what dosage, exclusive of diet and exercise, take for what it's worth, if that's nothing so be it!
Jim
Why do you insist the study posted by CBS involved AIDs rather than HIV patients?
Or perhaps you DON'T know the difference? Because from a study perspective it's very important!
This study clearly demonstrates what the DRUG Anavar does and at what dosage, exclusive of diet and exercise, take for what it's worth, if that's nothing so be it!
Jim
MANWHORE
Subscriber
Rather than contributing to the rancor, how about you pause from "taxes" and post a more enlightening citation SMT? And you thought "taxes" were a pain in the arse!
No sir, I just wanted to see what others opinion are on the subject. I do a little researching on my own, and then ask and see what conclusions others have come too.
I have found that most things involved in BB are not universal, what works for one guy might not for the other........ Training methods, AAS dosages & effectiveness, its seems to be that every successful guy has figured out what works best for HIS body...... that is what I'm trying to achieve.
Pericles
New Member
Correct, that is my point exactly. What works for someone w/ HIV/AIDS (and yes, Jim, I know the difference) will not work for others. AIDS is worsening of
HIV. If you have only HIV, here is an antiretroviral medication which slows the progression from HIV to AIDS, and it can keep many people healthy for many years. There is still no cure for HIV.
If you have access to good healthcare and medication there is a good chance HIV will never lead to AIDS. It is no longer a death sentence at this point and for many AIDS is not an inevitable consequence of being infected with the HIV virus. We're not talking slowing it down.....we're talking never.
Pericles
New Member
Correct, that is my point exactly. What works for someone w/ HIV/AIDS (and yes, Jim, I know the difference) will not work for others.As stated nabove, AIDS is worsening of HIV. If you have only HIV, here is an antiretroviral medication which slows the progression from HIV to AIDS, and it can keep many people healthy for many years.
My comparison of the HIV stricken person to Dorian was a bit extreme, but lets compare them to me, at 218 lbs and 36 years of hard training. Are these patients eating at least 250 grams of of protein a day? Are they giving 100% in the gym? Again, apples and oranges.
I got good results from 60 mgs of var, and will see if 75 is noticeably better.
Oh, and Jim, can you possibly reduce the circumlocutory nature of you posts?
They are rambling and the reader has to really sift through all the pompous use of unnecessarily wordy and indirect language.. A simple proofread or two would help. When I was teaching college I would hand back your paper and tell you to do at least 2 more drafts.
Look into Occams' razer
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Pericles
New Member
Again, correct.
If we apply Occam's razor to the study, we would have to conclude that it is indeed applicable to everyone. To believe a subset of the population is so genetically different from everyone else that they can derive tremendous benefits at 240mgs when everyone else can't, is NOT the simplest explanation. It requires a leap of faith. It's PURE speculation and there is ZERO evidence to support it.
And I'll take circumlocutory speech over circular reasoning anyday. Even if it does stress the left-brain.
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Occam's razor, utterly absurd PC!
Pericles
New Member
I see you are not familiar w/ the theory. It is a a principle of parsimony, economy, or succinctness used in logic, problem-solving and writing. It states that among competing hypotheses, the one that is less complicated should be selected
Jim, it takes you 2 paragraphs to convey 2 sentences worth of idea. Furthermore, the excess verbiage/writing only serves to de-emphasize the main point, and reduces your argument into a rant.
What is happening when you write, is that you write for only one reader (that reader being you). You need to learn how to edit (at least 2 times) so that someone else can understand what you are trying to say.
Pericles
New Member
If we apply Occam's razor to the study, we would have to conclude that it is indeed applicable to everyone. To believe a subset of the population is so genetically different from everyone else that they can derive tremendous benefits at 240mgs when everyone else can't, is NOT the simplest explanation. It requires a leap of faith. It's PURE speculation and there is ZERO evidence to support it.
And I'll take circumlocutory speech over circular reasoning anyday. Even if it does stress the left-brain.
I am suggesting O razer as a tool to clean up Jim's posts. I never meant to apply it to the study^. For a study to be valid, it needs to apply to a representative body that can be extrapolated to everyone, or the target audince.
Of course, that is what happens when you apply evidence (HIV patients) that cannot be used to evaluate a totally different group (hard core weight lifters).
Look, if you guys want to say that what applies to one group of people somehow applies to very different others, I am no longer going to waste my time trying to point out the obvious. As I said early, garbage in, garbage out.
BULLSHIT PC. HIV patients are only infected with the virus, and by definition, they are not immune compromised, frail, fragile, or feeble, lol. The net effect has little impact on their LH receptor regulation. Contrast that with AIDS patients, whom do have altered LH receptor responsiveness and are immune compromised.
Have you NO IDEA why these patients were chosen? Answer, negative nitrogen balance which is a problem with everyone, some more than others. Incidentally similar results, albeit not quite as impressive have been reported by increasing HIV patients protein intake.
So what's the distinction between them and "US" ..........ANOREXIA and generalized MALAISE believed to be caused by the virus itself either directly or indirectly. Consequently the study reflects the anabolic effectiveness of Var absent controlling for the effect of diet or exercise.
However apparently you are unable to quantify or classify the relevance of evidence based medicine, such as the article submitted by CBS, and use it appropriately for everyone in daily practice, like providing advice to those participants less well read or experienced on Meso.
No instead you suggest we should assume the advice of pro's golden, and much more reliable than select research which ostensibly DEFINES the anabolic effectiveness of an particular AAS.
This in spite of the fact many pro's are frequently on a lifelong cycle (literally), use GH, Insulin, to varying degrees and race with up to 4-5 anabolic agents often at high dosages, and probably only use Var as a "cleansing agent"!
In fact these suggestions seem so bizarre and uncharacteristic, coming from anyone with an advanced educational degree, especially a "Phd"? Odd quite odd indeed.
Nonetheless, perhaps this discussion will provide the impetus for you to seek those studies which comply with the strict criteria you've described, thereby benefiting the entire Meso community, or shall we acquiesce to the dogma of "bro science"?
JIM
Have you NO IDEA why these patients were chosen? Answer, negative nitrogen balance which is a problem with everyone, some more than others. Incidentally similar results, albeit not quite as impressive have been reported by increasing HIV patients protein intake.
So what's the distinction between them and "US" ..........ANOREXIA and generalized MALAISE believed to be caused by the virus itself either directly or indirectly. Consequently the study reflects the anabolic effectiveness of Var absent controlling for the effect of diet or exercise.
However apparently you are unable to quantify or classify the relevance of evidence based medicine, such as the article submitted by CBS, and use it appropriately for everyone in daily practice, like providing advice to those participants less well read or experienced on Meso.
No instead you suggest we should assume the advice of pro's golden, and much more reliable than select research which ostensibly DEFINES the anabolic effectiveness of an particular AAS.
This in spite of the fact many pro's are frequently on a lifelong cycle (literally), use GH, Insulin, to varying degrees and race with up to 4-5 anabolic agents often at high dosages, and probably only use Var as a "cleansing agent"!
In fact these suggestions seem so bizarre and uncharacteristic, coming from anyone with an advanced educational degree, especially a "Phd"? Odd quite odd indeed.
Nonetheless, perhaps this discussion will provide the impetus for you to seek those studies which comply with the strict criteria you've described, thereby benefiting the entire Meso community, or shall we acquiesce to the dogma of "bro science"?
JIM
PS LABS FOUNDER
Subscriber
This is totally true - no changed in diets / no pcts - and they all had positive results of hiv patients - jim is right on the money
PS LABS FOUNDER
Subscriber
JUST WANT TO PUT IN MY OPINION ON MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH ANAVAR {OXANDRALONE}
I LOVE ANAVAR - I THINK IT IS ONE OF THE BEST BODYBUILDING DRUGS THERE IS WHEN USED IN HIGH DOSES {50MG - 120MG PER DAY} - YOU GET FAT LOSS/ VEINS/ STRENGTH/ SMALL STEADY QUALITY MUSCLE GAINS/ NO MASSIVE SHUTDOWN {LIKE SOMETHING LIKE DECA} / AND NOT MUCH SIDE EFFECTS OTHER THEN POSSIBLE ACNE / NO HARSH LIVER DAMAGE / ZERO CONVERSION TO ESTROGEN
I ALWAYS INCLUDE ANAVAR IN CYCLES NO MATTER WHAT REALLY / I DO AT LEAST 50MG PER DAY AND HAVE GONE UP TO 120MG PER DAY - I WOULD SAY 75MG PER DAY IS BEST RESULTS WITH BASICALLY NO SIDE EFFECTS I HAVE SEEN OTHER THEN ACNE
I DO DIFFERENT LENGTH CYCLES EVERY TIME BUT HAVE GONE AS LONG AS 12 WEEKS BEFORE WITHOUT PROBLEMS SO FAR
ANAVAR - TEST - CLEN - PEPTIDES = IS GREAT AT MAKING YOU RIPPED, LEAN, VEINS AND STILL BUILDING MUSCLE ALL AT THE SAME TIME :drooling:
I LOVE ANAVAR - I THINK IT IS ONE OF THE BEST BODYBUILDING DRUGS THERE IS WHEN USED IN HIGH DOSES {50MG - 120MG PER DAY} - YOU GET FAT LOSS/ VEINS/ STRENGTH/ SMALL STEADY QUALITY MUSCLE GAINS/ NO MASSIVE SHUTDOWN {LIKE SOMETHING LIKE DECA} / AND NOT MUCH SIDE EFFECTS OTHER THEN POSSIBLE ACNE / NO HARSH LIVER DAMAGE / ZERO CONVERSION TO ESTROGEN
I ALWAYS INCLUDE ANAVAR IN CYCLES NO MATTER WHAT REALLY / I DO AT LEAST 50MG PER DAY AND HAVE GONE UP TO 120MG PER DAY - I WOULD SAY 75MG PER DAY IS BEST RESULTS WITH BASICALLY NO SIDE EFFECTS I HAVE SEEN OTHER THEN ACNE
I DO DIFFERENT LENGTH CYCLES EVERY TIME BUT HAVE GONE AS LONG AS 12 WEEKS BEFORE WITHOUT PROBLEMS SO FAR
ANAVAR - TEST - CLEN - PEPTIDES = IS GREAT AT MAKING YOU RIPPED, LEAN, VEINS AND STILL BUILDING MUSCLE ALL AT THE SAME TIME :drooling:
PS Labs, did someone piss you off, or are you trying to make a statement? All caps 
PS Labs, did someone piss you off, or are you trying to make a statement? All caps
All caps gives credibility to any statement, no matter how retarded..... you didn't know?
PS LABS FOUNDER
Subscriber
ps labs, did someone piss you off, or are you trying to make a statement? All caps
just how i type guys - seems to really bother people that take writing on the internet too serious
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