How long do you think you can safely keep going, and what kind of expectations can you have as you get older?

[OffendHand]

I think we all know that steroids cause long-term health problems, and we likewise know that most of them really start hitting home after 30+ years, particularly heart issues.

I started very late--in my 30s--and I started with TRT. I switched to UGL because my doctor changed the way he was working, and required a weekly office visit instead of writing a prescription and doing a monthly blood test; the cost went from being $100/mo to over $500 out of pocket. I'm now in my very late 40s, getting close to my 50s, so I've been on TRT for well over a decade, and my HPTA is in total shutdown, and likely can never recover (I'm okay with this). I had to take an enforced break due to a nagging back injury and covid, and now I'm back. I'm on a higher dose of test, but still just test, at least until I get some of my fitness back.

So, if I'm not planning on doing masters BB competitions or Olympic/power lifting, and I'm mostly concerned with looking good, being strong, having great cardio, and not feeling like shit, how long would y'all estimate that I can go on and off full cycles before I need my first heart bypass, or just croak from a massive heart attack? With the exception of RBC when I was on a lot of EQ, my blood values overall have traditionally looked good.

Is it realistic to think that, if I can keep it up for a decade (into my late 50s), that I'm going to have the physique of someone that's in their mid-30s? Or is there something else about aging, aside from changing hormone levels, that's going to prevent me from adding strength, fitness, and muscle at a decent rate? I know that a lot of the weight gain that older people tend to experience has a lot more to do with changes in activity levels than anything else.

 

[All Nats McGee]

It’s depends on on how much and how often your blasting. If you just do a summer cycle and add in a little anavar to your trt like me then I don’t consider it a big deal. I’m only 33 and been on since 26. I’ve been on 125mg a week for the last two years and I still look better then most my friends. But if I do decide to do a little blast I only do 250mg test 25mg anavar and only once a year sometime in summer.

 

[OffendHand]

IIRC, my dose when I started was 200mg EW, and that hit about 800ng/dl. I'm not sure how long it's "safe" to keep my blood levels that high or higher. Or if I even have to worry that much, since I'll be getting pretty old once I hit the negative long term side effects or having high testosterone levels.

 

[Woodsman]

Great questions in your post @OffendHand. I’m gonna keep an eye on this thread and see if some old timers pop in. I’m 52. TRT for years but did my first real cycles at 47-48 yrs old. Test-Mast, Test-NPP, few other things. Test/NPP made me grow and feel better than I had felt in 20 years, but I got carried away I guess because it eventually made my bp skyrocket so high suddenly I was afraid my heart would explode. I immediately went off of everything….but now I’m back looking for some of the same answers.

 

[T&H]

IIRC, my dose when I started was 200mg EW, and that hit about 800ng/dl. I'm not sure how long it's "safe" to keep my blood levels that high or higher. Or if I even have to worry that much, since I'll be getting pretty old once I hit the negative long term side effects or having high testosterone levels.

800ng is well within the normal range of test. If your bloodwork on that is good, I don't see a problem long term.

I'd lean towards those well outside of the normal TRT range for a long time as possibly having problems. There are specific tests you can have done on the heart to ensure unseen damage isn't happening. But some guys can blast and cruise a while with minimal problems. I think genetics plays a part.

 

[test9999]

Great questions in your post @OffendHand. I’m gonna keep an eye on this thread and see if some old timers pop in. I’m 52. TRT for years but did my first real cycles at 47-48 yrs old. Test-Mast, Test-NPP, few other things. Test/NPP made me grow and feel better than I had felt in 20 years, but I got carried away I guess because it eventually made my bp skyrocket so high suddenly I was afraid my heart would explode. I immediately went off of everything….but now I’m back looking for some of the same answers.

Being 50 now and still trying to blast and cruise, the main thing is that I notice the side effect a lot stronger than I did before. I cant run the doseages I used to without bloat and BP going up quickly. For me , I notice it the most running nor19s. I may have to just accept the fun times (orals, Ment blasts, tren) are in the past and learn to live with TRT, minimal primo and 2-3iu HGH for the rest of my days. Aging sucks.

 

[OffendHand]

Great questions in your post @OffendHand. I’m gonna keep an eye on this thread and see if some old timers pop in. I’m 52. TRT for years but did my first real cycles at 47-48 yrs old. Test-Mast, Test-NPP, few other things. Test/NPP made me grow and feel better than I had felt in 20 years, but I got carried away I guess because it eventually made my bp skyrocket so high suddenly I was afraid my heart would explode. I immediately went off of everything….but now I’m back looking for some of the same answers.

I know that I had very high RBC and blood pressure on boldenone, high enough that I was getting really brutal headaches. As I age more, I expect things like that to become more dangerous.

My biggest worry is something like HCM or arteriosclerosis. IIRC high natural testosterone levels have been strongly linked to arterial plaques, but that might be outdated knowledge; if that's correct, I assume that supraphysiologic levels will, over time, be more likely to cause coronary arterial disease. But the question of how long, on average, is the tough one.

 

[narta]

I am in my late 40s. On trt for the past 20yr with a break only when I got my wife pregnant. Usually test 120mg-160mg and the last few years I added Nandrolone at 70-100/week. Bloodwork every 3-4 months and I visit my cardiologist every 2yr.

I feel great, my markers are within range and I am definitely far better that I was when test was in the gutter before trt.

I occasionally blast but doses are moderate like 700mg total. No tren or other harsh compounds test,Nandrolone,mast and eq. No orals.

I will probably live a longer and better life than I would have if I haven't started this regiment.

As the saying goes: poison is in the dosage.

 

[JuiceJohn]

It's difficult to say exactly how long someone can safely use PEDs, as this depends on a variety of factors.
In general, the longer a person uses PEDs, the higher the risk of adverse health effects, including liver damage, cardiovascular disease, and hormonal imbalances. Chronic use of PEDs can also lead to psychological dependence, with users experiencing withdrawal symptoms when they stop taking the drugs.
In general, TRT is considered to be a long-term treatment that is intended to be used indefinitely in men with low testosterone or other medical conditions that require testosterone supplementation.
But again in long term, it has drawbacks too.

But it all depends on the person, deep question.

 

[OffendHand]

It's difficult to say exactly how long someone can safely use PEDs, as this depends on a variety of factors.
In general, the longer a person uses PEDs, the higher the risk of adverse health effects, including liver damage, cardiovascular disease, and hormonal imbalances. Chronic use of PEDs can also lead to psychological dependence, with users experiencing withdrawal symptoms when they stop taking the drugs.
In general, TRT is considered to be a long-term treatment that is intended to be used indefinitely in men with low testosterone or other medical conditions that require testosterone supplementation.
But again in long term, it has drawbacks too.

But it all depends on the person, deep question.

Oh, I'm 100% psychologically dependent, no question. That's my least concern. I'm pretty sure I've got a hormonal imbalance at this moment--I need to get more adex--but the critical markers for kidney and liver function are good. Liver function I'm minimally concerned about, because most injectables aren't overly harmful to your liver.

I think my biggest worries are coronary arterial disease and heart disease (specifically hypertrophic cardiomyopathy). I know that testosterone levels decrease in men as they get older, and that men that have the highest levels of testosterone tend to have higher rates of CAD and HCM past the age of 50 or so. Years ago I saw something about a link between high levels of testosterone and LDL that suggested that high testosterone can lead to plaque formations. But the question I have is more complicated: how high, how long, and is that risk linear irrespective of age?

E.g., if you have very low testosterone until you're 40, and then you go on TRT and have levels that would be considered on the high end for an 18yo, is that when the clock starts? Will your risk of CAD and heart diseases start going up when you hit 80 instead of 50, because you had low testosterone for a long time?

As I'm writing this, I realize that there's probably not a good answer. There's probably no studies covering this directly, esp. since it would probably be unethical to do something you thought was likely to lead to heart disease in trial participants.

 

[Dw725]

I am in my late 40s. On trt for the past 20yr with a break only when I got my wife pregnant. Usually test 120mg-160mg and the last few years I added Nandrolone at 70-100/week. Bloodwork every 3-4 months and I visit my cardiologist every 2yr.

I feel great, my markers are within range and I am definitely far better that I was when test was in the gutter before trt.

I occasionally blast but doses are moderate like 700mg total. No tren or other harsh compounds test,Nandrolone,mast and eq. No orals.

I will probably live a longer and better life than I would have if I haven't started this regiment.

As the saying goes: poison is in the dosage.

This is the way.

 

[JuiceJohn]

Oh, I'm 100% psychologically dependent, no question. That's my least concern. I'm pretty sure I've got a hormonal imbalance at this moment--I need to get more adex--but the critical markers for kidney and liver function are good. Liver function I'm minimally concerned about, because most injectables aren't overly harmful to your liver.

I think my biggest worries are coronary arterial disease and heart disease (specifically hypertrophic cardiomyopathy). I know that testosterone levels decrease in men as they get older, and that men that have the highest levels of testosterone tend to have higher rates of CAD and HCM past the age of 50 or so. Years ago I saw something about a link between high levels of testosterone and LDL that suggested that high testosterone can lead to plaque formations. But the question I have is more complicated: how high, how long, and is that risk linear irrespective of age?

E.g., if you have very low testosterone until you're 40, and then you go on TRT and have levels that would be considered on the high end for an 18yo, is that when the clock starts? Will your risk of CAD and heart diseases start going up when you hit 80 instead of 50, because you had low testosterone for a long time?

As I'm writing this, I realize that there's probably not a good answer. There's probably no studies covering this directly, esp. since it would probably be unethical to do something you thought was likely to lead to heart disease in trial participants.

Firstly, while high levels of testosterone have been associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease in some studies, the evidence is not clear-cut. Some studies have found no association between testosterone levels and cardiovascular disease, while others have found that low levels of testosterone may actually be a risk factor for cardiovascular disease.

Secondly, the impact of TRT on cardiovascular health may depend on a variety of factors, including the age at which treatment is initiated, the duration of treatment, the dose of testosterone administered, and individual patient factors such as pre-existing cardiovascular disease or risk factors.

Thirdly, it's important to note that the effects of TRT on cardiovascular health are not well-understood in older men, as most studies have focused on younger men. Therefore, it's difficult to say whether TRT in older men who have low testosterone levels will increase the risk of cardiovascular disease.

It's also important to discuss your concerns with your healthcare provider, who can provide personalized advice based on your individual health status and medical history.

 

[Woodsman]

Has anyone seen any real INDEPENDENT studies concerning this? Many studies just cannot be trusted once you follow the trail to the funding source of the study and realize it’s a pharmaceutical company paying a university for their results, which is the case more than many people realize. If you do a web search on the google machine you get answers all over the board. For me, anything put out by the American Heart Association or any other government related agency has no credibility.

 

[JuiceJohn]

Has anyone seen any real INDEPENDENT studies concerning this? Many studies just cannot be trusted once you follow the trail to the funding source of the study and realize it’s a pharmaceutical company paying a university for their results, which is the case more than many people realize. If you do a web search on the google machine you get answers all over the board. For me, anything put out by the American Heart Association or any other government related agency has no credibility.

True, that's why I highly recommend that people consult with their own physicians and discuss their concerns with them.
Cuz at end of the day, it's your own health.

 

[OffendHand]

Has anyone seen any real INDEPENDENT studies concerning this? Many studies just cannot be trusted once you follow the trail to the funding source of the study and realize it’s a pharmaceutical company paying a university for their results, which is the case more than many people realize. If you do a web search on the google machine you get answers all over the board. For me, anything put out by the American Heart Association or any other government related agency has no credibility.

I think that's pretty much the gold standard for credibility. The AHA doesn't have any real interest other than heart health. The gov't has an interest in maintaining the DEA, but that's usually a fairly minor issue (aside from the difficulty in getting studies approved that use certain scheduled drugs). I a given drug has no effect on heart health, or a positive effect, the AHA will want to know.

I'd be far, far more wary of studies that were funded by drug companies. They have a financial interest in achieving results that demonstrate that their products are safe and effective. Aside from physician groups like the AHA, the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and drug companies, there really aren't sources of funding for medical studies.

Believing that gov't-funded studies are untrustworthy is a quick way to end up thinking that vaccines must cause autism and that everyone that took the 'experimental DNA-mutating covid vaccine' is going to be dead in two years. Moreover, individual physicians are very often wrong, which is why large-scale longitudinal studies are useful.

 

[redmanzzz]

Being 50 now and still trying to blast and cruise, the main thing is that I notice the side effect a lot stronger than I did before. I cant run the doseages I used to without bloat and BP going up quickly. For me , I notice it the most running nor19s. I may have to just accept the fun times (orals, Ment blasts, tren) are in the past and learn to live with TRT, minimal primo and 2-3iu HGH for the rest of my days. Aging sucks.

Being 51 myself, on TRT since 49 (first use of exogenous hormones) I haven't run into any issues since dropping my body fat under 10%. BP stays 110/60 with 10mg telemisartan and 5 mg cialis. Even with a gram and half of gear. How's the body fat? Also check out mitochondrial health. There are things to take to make you look and feel 10 years younger.

 

[lukiss96]

I'd rather cut some years off my life than go back to being natural or just do 125mg/week and call it a day...

Now obviously I'm 27 so most guys will disregard what I'm saying anyway. I started way younger than most, done some stupid things while experimenting, now for the past 2 years I'm a bit better with controlling myself and I just try to play it safe somewhat while still getting the benefits of being enhanced. Now I decided to just do Testosterone and nothing else pretty much, works for me, I feel probably the best I've ever felt. Much better than on multiple steroids. Health is very good.

Now my long term game plan is to taper down or come off to ~200mg/week of Testosterone where I still feel damn good and enhanced, cut my weight to a lean ~215lbs.

That's my happy medium I guess that I can maintain in to my 50's and then I will see my options, I have 20+ years to that point, so maybe something will change and we will have new or better options for trt.

At the end of it all, I guess I'll have to go on proper medical trt that will put me 600-800ng/dl of Testosterone I guess, but until then I'm gonna enjoy while it lasts

 

[RzSco]

I can’t get above lean 180 lbs at 6’2” no matter what I take, it seems. Been blasting 500g-1000g for like half a year now just trying to grow but muscles never get bigger, lifts never increase.

 

[Werewolf Piss]

I can’t get above lean 180 lbs at 6’2” no matter what I take, it seems. Been blasting 500g-1000g for like half a year now just trying to grow but muscles never get bigger, lifts never increase.

That'll happen when you hit 80 years old.

 

[OldGHGuy]

I can’t get above lean 180 lbs at 6’2” no matter what I take, it seems. Been blasting 500g-1000g for like half a year now just trying to grow but muscles never get bigger, lifts never increase.

Eat, eat, eat. And verify your gear is legit. Very hard to imagine that much gear not causing weight gain, even with zero workout.