if testosterone is not toxic at all and extremely anabolic, why peoples run other steroids?

[DugPrime]

I wanted to know why peoples are taking toxic compounds instead of a few grams of test, it seems being way way enough to grow as fast (and even faster) than some stack with some 19-nors and other toxic compounds.

You will certainly grow more off 2.5g-3g of test than 500 tren + 1000 test, and with way way way less risks on the health, but I can't see anyone that blast only big amounts of test, can anyone tell me if I'm wrong?

 

[Titan18]

I wanted to know why peoples are taking toxic compounds instead of a few grams of test, it seems being way way enough to grow as fast (and even faster) than some stack with some 19-nors and other toxic compounds.

You will certainly grow more off 2.5g-3g of test than 500 tren + 1000 test, and with way way way less risks on the health, but I can't see anyone that blast only big amounts of test, can anyone tell me if I'm wrong?

I'm thinking it's because there are different anabolic pathways and that's why you see people stack things like test+dht derivative+19-nor.

 

[ThiccManJack]

2 things: E2 control and androgenic side effects from test. The "safer" cycles imo are higher test with primo to control E2. You can easily attenuate primo dosages with bloodwork to get your E2 optimal. A lot of drugs are better for cutting and have anti-catabolic effects rather than just anabolic. Like var and tren for example. When it comes to using something like dbol/anadrol/superdrol it's largely for quick results, or with anadrol/superdrol specifically for strength gains.

 

[JC Grifter]

Some people such as myself aromatize a lot and I live in a state where I can’t get my own bloodwork. It’s best for me personally to use lower test and add nandrolone at a higher dose

 

[DugPrime]

2 things: E2 control and androgenic side effects from test. The "safer" cycles imo are higher test with primo to control E2. You can easily attenuate primo dosages with bloodwork to get your E2 optimal. A lot of drugs are better for cutting and have anti-catabolic effects rather than just anabolic. Like var and tren for example. When it comes to using something like dbol/anadrol/superdrol it's largely for quick results, or with anadrol/superdrol specifically for strength gains.

What if your goal (I'm asking for myself) is bulking. No need to be in any cosmetic state, not looking for extra strength, I'm lowering e2 with an AI.

I can understand that for strength, any specific cosmetic state, for cut, and those kinds of things, other drugs than test can be used, but if your only goal is bulking, wouldn't blasting high amount of test only a safer long-term option as you will probably be as fast as 500mg of tren without the toxicity from hell?

 

[ThiccManJack]

What if your goal (I'm asking for myself) is bulking. No need to be in any cosmetic state, not looking for extra strength, I'm lowering e2 with an AI.

I can understand that for strength, any specific cosmetic state, for cut, and those kinds of things, other drugs than test can be used, but if your only goal is bulking, wouldn't blasting high amount of test only a safer long-term option as you will probably be as fast as 500mg of tren without the toxicity from hell?

Yeah I'll get hate for this from tren-heads but tren is terrible. Neurotoxic (increases biomarkers for alzheimers), progestogenic (directly testicularly suppressive and makes some people become gay), and I've seen people with 600+ AST/ALT running tren and test, and only like 200-300mg of tren. I've never bothered with aromatase inhibitors since I currently use bold cyp to control E2 on a blast, but I will say that if you can get extra anabolic effects from something like bold cyp or primo while reducing your side effect burden, why wouldn't you? Lots of golden age bodybuilders ran super high dosages of primo and it was effective. Boldenone increases hematocrit and RBC (negative thing when it's outside the reference range) but it also increases hunger a ton, and vascularity, and puts on size. To me it's just kind of a no-brainer. Though a lot of people have had bad hair outcomes on both I will say that. I personally try to purposely do things to boost my E2 (twice a week administration instead of EOD/3x a week), taking DHEA, etc. so that I can run more bold without more sides. 600 test and 400 bold cyp put my E2 at 21 (a little low for my liking) and I got no negative sides (no acne, no blood pressure, my hematocrit and RBC were okay, cholesterol was fine, etc.). Next time I'll run 700 test to put my E2 hopefully up in the 50s, but no way to know without blood work.

 

[Mister Loco]

Different compounds for different goals. Some may want to take their strength and physique to the next level.

Take a look at the guys on growth hormone compared to guys only on test. It really comes down to what you want to achieve.

 

[narta]

What if your goal (I'm asking for myself) is bulking. No need to be in any cosmetic state, not looking for extra strength, I'm lowering e2 with an AI.

I can understand that for strength, any specific cosmetic state, for cut, and those kinds of things, other drugs than test can be used, but if your only goal is bulking, wouldn't blasting high amount of test only a safer long-term option as you will probably be as fast as 500mg of tren without the toxicity from hell?

Deca is more anabolic and less androgenic than test and has been studied in the medical field for decades making it a valid choice for those that can;t handle high amounts of test.

It's all about the individual response and how ones body tolerates each compound. I can blast grams of test no problem, but I get the same results with less sides lowering the test and adding deca. So why not? Finding the sweet spot for your body is the ultimate goal

 

[Mister Loco]

Deca is more anabolic and less androgenic than test and has been studied in the medical field for decades making it a valid choice for those that can;t handle high amounts of test.

It's all about the individual response and how ones body tolerates each compound. I can blast grams of test no problem, but I get the same results with less sides lowering the test and adding deca. So why not? Finding the sweet spot for your body is the ultimate goal

Do you find that your libido decreases when deca is higher than test?

 

[narta]

Do you find that your libido decreases when deca is higher than test?

Personally no, but I have my E2 on check and prolactin also on check and some proviron. If you find the sweet spot it makes you hornier

 

[DugPrime]

can blast grams of test no problem, but I get the same results with less sides lowering the test and adding deca. So why not?

Because your health should be more important than the temporary sides. That's just my opinion.

 

[strangegenericguy]

by the way from a medical prospective the discours shoud be very very larger than what has been...there are even genetic factors to put in the topic, think for example put a person with hearth genetic weak prospective, if he runs 2 or 3 grams of test it could put him in a serious danger condition compared to 500 test 500 tren, then we can talk about e2 and the guys before than me did it, and this thing touches me personally being an high converter, high test kills me with acne if i don't perfectly check e2. Than we can continue with lenght and goals and dosages...like a guy wrote before than me...different compounds....different goals....peace

 

[narta]

Because your health should be more important than the temporary sides. That's just my opinion.

Bloods are ok, cardiologist is happy, so....

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I wanted to know why peoples are taking toxic compounds instead of a few grams of test, it seems being way way enough to grow as fast (and even faster) than some stack with some 19-nors and other toxic compounds.

You will certainly grow more off 2.5g-3g of test than 500 tren + 1000 test, and with way way way less risks on the health, but I can't see anyone that blast only big amounts of test, can anyone tell me if I'm wrong?

Test that high will surely cause health problems in the longer term.

Anything can be toxic. Aspirin in high doses can probably result in kidney failure and ultimately cause your death. Along with fat soluble vitamins

What is your thought process/rationale for this? Is it cause that testosterone is bioidentical?

 

[DugPrime]

Is it cause that testosterone is bioidentical?

This, and because it's known that testosterone is considered being the safest AAs.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

This, and because it's known that testosterone is considered being the safest AAs.

Safe doesn't mean it can't cause problems. It's safe in reasonable doses.



I would hardly consider more than 500mg of test safer than 200 test and 200 mast.

Especially if the high androgens/e2 can elevate angiotensin levels which would results in hypertension which ends in kidney damage, LVH, or vascular damage

 

[DugPrime]

I would hardly consider more than 500mg of test safer than 200 test and 200 mast.

Especially if the high androgens/e2 can elevate angiotensin levels which would results in hypertension which ends in kidney damage, LVH, or vascular damage

and I would hardly consider that 2.5g of Test will harm more than 500 tren which is generally dosed at 400-700mg a week.

I do agree for the angiotensin, feel free to add BP meds like I do (Telmisartan, Nebivolol, Cialis) they're all good.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Cialis is not much of a real BP med. It was meant for pulmonary hypertension. people do not seem to know the difference.

I would hope people wouldn't need nebivolol but atleast it seems like its an overall safe Beta Blocker with minimal sides.

 

[DugPrime]

Cialis is not much of a real BP med. It was meant for pulmonary hypertension. people do not seem to know the difference.

I would hope people wouldn't need nebivolol but atleast it seems like its an overall safe Beta Blocker with minimal sides.

Cialis is also used to prevent clots but I mainly use it for the pumps, faster recovery between sets. I'm using Nebivolol because my heart rest rate is too high on cycle (+100-105BPM) instead of my usual 60-80BPM, and the Telmisartan works better with Nebivolol, and make the nebivolol even more effective, so they're like 1+1=3.

 

[Deskoze38192]

and I would hardly consider that 2.5g of Test will harm more than 500 tren which is generally dosed at 400-700mg a week.

I do agree for the angiotensin, feel free to add BP meds like I do (Telmisartan, Nebivolol, Cialis) they're all good.

Most people aren’t using Tren to bulk.
Can you bulk on Tren? Yes. I’ve have. Is it ideal? Absolutely not. Much better options for a lot of reasons.
Pick a different anabolic to compare.
One that doesn’t have the worst side effect profile and one that actually coincides with your goal.
Your looking to bulk and not concerned about strength. Tren shouldn’t be an option

Exogenous Test even at a replacement dose can have a negative effect on health to some degree. The larger the dose the greater the effect and impact on health.
Combining anabolics that have a synergistic effect can allow for lower doses to be used to achieve a desired result.
It’s not a simple as “Test is bioidentical so I can run it super high and be fine” there is more to it then that.