Injecting testosterone subcutaneously

guys guys, you can't compare a pellet bioavailability on the subcutaneous area with the absorption of testosterone ( oil-based ) into the same....

please, prove me wrong and you are welcome to do so..until then i would think this is just a fad....

so am i supposed to take these other people's anecdotes on other forums as gospel ?

and then in the meantime everybody is contributing with the why's they think it works or why it doesn't ??
if you bump into any article by shippen about this...please redirect me to the link....until then is it a hoax or not ?

let me add something, so, let's say Ritchie posts his labs and they are awesome, and then everybody, including me get excited about it, right ?

is everybody the same, aren't we susceptible to any drug and future reactions and so forth in different ways ?
 
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I'm holding off on labs right now until I switch employers and get some (hopefully) good medical insurance that will cover the labs...hopefully January. All i know is i feel physically great. As good or better than before.
 
ciobl said:
guys guys, you can't compare a pellet bioavailability on the subcutaneous area with the absorption of testosterone ( oil-based ) into the same....

please, prove me wrong and you are welcome to do so..until then i would think this is just a fad....

so am i supposed to take these other people's anecdotes on other forums as gospel ?

and then in the meantime everybody is contributing with the why's they think it works or why it doesn't ??
if you bump into any article by shippen about this...please redirect me to the link....until then is it a hoax or not ?

let me add something, so, let's say Ritchie posts his labs and they are awesome, and then everybody, including me get excited about it, right ?

is everybody the same, aren't we susceptible to any drug and future reactions and so forth in different ways ?

Ciobl,

I'm your biggest fan, but I am curious from an experimenters standpoint. I don't inject nor will I ever as long as TC/TD works as well as it does for me. WTS, if we are after an absorption rate that is as close to natural as possible, then the lesser vascularity of the sub epithelial system seems to be more valid than IM. Just my thoughts, open for discussion. It is closer to fat with all the drawbacks that has, but it has to be a way to lower aromitization caused by rapid increase in blood levels I would think.
 
:D thank you for the compliment but i think its the other way around....

i'm not avoiding the question but did you check what the new bro marianco had to say about dopamine serotonin and GABA ?
 
ciobl said:
:D thank you for the compliment but i think its the other way around....

i'm not avoiding the question but did you check what the new bro marianco had to say about dopamine serotonin and GABA ?

Yes I read that. What a great addition. He is putting it all together and has the playground in his profession to give us all insights that we cannot get otherwise. I liked your mention of all the group here... Head, Swale, and a good number more all bring a lot to the table.

With the exchange of information, we can perhaps lay a basis for true personal intervention. We know no two of us are the same, but we also know certain specie similarities apply. Perhaps we can unlock the door to youth and post adolescent libido sans anxiety. I do believe it is possible... with TRT, hGH, and mediator modulation... time will see us through.

G
 
ciobl said:
:D thank you for the compliment but i think its the other way around....

i'm not avoiding the question but did you check what the new bro marianco had to say about dopamine serotonin and GABA ?

Yes I read that. What a great addition. He is putting it all together and has the playground in his profession to give us all insights that we cannot get otherwise. I liked your mention of all the group here... Head, Swale, and a good number more all bring a lot to the table.

With the exchange of information, we can perhaps lay a basis for true personal intervention. We know no two of us are the same, but we also know certain specie similarities apply. Perhaps we can unlock the door to youth and post adolescent libido sans anxiety. I do believe it is possible... with TRT, hGH, and mediator modulation... time will see us through.

G
 
Albert said:
I think that sub-q injections are the way to.

I did it for several months and found I had a couple of lumps where I had been injecting.

I got worried and started to do IM again, but found they disappeared in a few weeks and went back to sub-q again.

I am now trying Testogel, but thru lack of doctors support, I am thinking of going back to injections as I felt better doing weekly sub-q.

I think I would spend more time on needle lenght and position if I was to start again.

It will suit some people but not others, just as gels suit some and not others.

Later,
Albert.

Albert,

Did you ever go back to doing SubQ injections? If so, do you have any labs showing the results of E2?
 
1cc said:
Albert,

Did you ever go back to doing SubQ injections? If so, do you have any labs showing the results of E2?
I am going to start doing my Depo T shots subQ .35mls every 3 days. I have been doing 100IU's of HCG everyday and my E2 has settled down some. So this Tue. I am going to use my HCG 27 g 1ml x 1/2 lg for my T shots. We will soon see if E2 is less a problem doing this.
 
pmgamer18 said:
I am going to start doing my Depo T shots subQ .35mls every 3 days. I have been doing 100IU's of HCG everyday and my E2 has settled down some. So this Tue. I am going to use my HCG 27 g 1ml x 1/2 lg for my T shots. We will soon see if E2 is less a problem doing this.

Keep us posted on how it's going Phil. I am considering doing this pretty soon myself.

I have been doing T Cyp shots every 3 days and HCG every day now for about 8 weeks. I feel really great doing this. Much more consistent than doing T Cyp shots once per week. Did the following labs the day before my next shot.

Total T 620 241-827
Free T 20.1 8.8-27.0
Estradiol 29 13-54

I would like to do labs the day of my shot also, so that I can see what the peak is. I would like E2 to be a little lower, but would prefer to avoid using an AI or aything else to lower it. I am hoping that perhaps the SubQ shots would lead to lower E2 levels as well as more stable T levels. E2 also sometimes goes lower on it's own after it stabilises over time, so I may give it a little time to see what happens.
 
I was injecting Sustanon SubQ, 1/2mg every 7 days no problems. I had a few small lumps where I had been injecting and when I read about the chance of abscesses I stopped.

The little lumps and bumps disappeared within a few weeks and now all clear. I still do it when I get sick of my legs aching and have had no problems.

As Swale has doubts of SubQ, I have backed off them, for that reason only.
If Swale gave the ok and a few do's and dont's then I would do it all the time.

I tried Testogel, but need to find a doctor who knows TRT as mine does not know his arse from his elbow.

Later,
Albert.
 
I found this interesting post about how T Cyp ester is removed and finally the T is absorbed. The only question remaining is, is there any esterase enzymes in the subcutaneous area? If the answer is no, then there is no way that T Cyp can aromatize into Estrogen in the subcutaneous area. It looks to me from the article below that there is only esterase enzymes in the blood.

Does anyone know whether there is any esterase enzymes in the subcutaneous area?


Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. You can start to see why considering testosterone cypionate much more potent than enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134239575
 
1cc said:
Albert,

Did you ever go back to doing SubQ injections? If so, do you have any labs showing the results of E2?


Yes I still do SubQ injections, but not all the time.

Last time my E2 was tested it was ok. It's a big deal to get my doctor to test E2 (it has another name here), god damn doctors can be jackasses. Anything to do with steroids, they don't want to know about it. All my scripts (Sustanon 250) are government(Federal) approved.

I sometimes get a slight bump where I've injected, when that happens I back to IM until it disappears, which is only a week or two.

The talk sometime back made me more cautious?

Later,
Albert.
 
1cc--That contradicts what was previously posted, which is that esterase is present in the muscle. It has been my understanding, as I said, that the test cyp does not remain partitioned within the muscle until the cypionate ester is completely removed.

I see no reason why there would be no aromatization of T into E with subQ injections. Not only will it occur once the t hits the bloodstream, but there is a significant amount of aromatase present within the skin and fat tissue.
 
SWALE said:
1cc--That contradicts what was previously posted, which is that esterase is present in the muscle. It has been my understanding, as I said, that the test cyp does not remain partitioned within the muscle until the cypionate ester is completely removed.

I see no reason why there would be no aromatization of T into E with subQ injections. Not only will it occur once the t hits the bloodstream, but there is a significant amount of aromatase present within the skin and fat tissue.

Since my post, I did some research and it turns out that esterase is also present in the Skin, so it is possible that aromitization can occur with SubQ injections.

I guess the amount of aromitization depends on the amount of T released, as has been mentioned in a previous post. That is the way pellets work, and we know that they do work well as far as minimal aromitization.

In what way would SubQ T Cyp be different from pellets, especially since T Cyp has an ester whereas the pellets simply release T?
 
Pellets release their T much more slowly than an injection of test cyp. An acceleration in androgen concentration also increases the activity of the aromatase enzyme.

I do expect SC test cyp injections to produce estrogen increases. Not as much as transdermal gels/creams, though.
 
SWALE said:
Pellets release their T much more slowly than an injection of test cyp. An acceleration in androgen concentration also increases the activity of the aromatase enzyme.

I do expect SC test cyp injections to produce estrogen increases. Not as much as transdermal gels/creams, though.

I would expect it to be dependent on the individual as well. If one doesn't get an increase in e2 from transdermals, they might not get an increase off of SC. Would DHT play more of a role in SC compared to IM?
 
I am doing my Depo T shots every 3 days now doing 64mgs. I am finding a lot less E2 problem. But the change took time I think the Depo T was slow to get down from doing 150 mg. shots once a week. I have done 6 shots now on the 3 day a shot. The spike is all but gone now and I just feel the same from shot to shot. I use a 27g 1ml x 1/2 in lg. needle into my leg. I started doing my HCG 100 IU's everyday subQ today using same size needle. My Dr. said I can use this needle for T shots as long as I do them in my leg IM.
 
pmgamer18 said:
I am doing my Depo T shots every 3 days now doing 64mgs. I am finding a lot less E2 problem. But the change took time I think the Depo T was slow to get down from doing 150 mg. shots once a week. I have done 6 shots now on the 3 day a shot. The spike is all but gone now and I just feel the same from shot to shot. I use a 27g 1ml x 1/2 in lg. needle into my leg. I started doing my HCG 100 IU's everyday subQ today using same size needle. My Dr. said I can use this needle for T shots as long as I do them in my leg IM.

Phil,

How do you like the 27g needles compared to the 25g? Do you think the 1/2" is long enough to get into the muscle? Also, how are you going about drawing the test from the bottle? Do you have to heat it up to get it in there?
 
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