Joints/Tendons/Bone

[searay]

There you would be wrong jim! Truthfully never did anything test deca etc till I was 51 years old! Thats the truth! I had never evan seen it b4! Found out thru doc I had low t! He put me on 150mg every 2 weeks! I felt a little better at 1st but that low dose was not enough! Still have never tried gh! I think I was 49 when I ruptured elbow and tore pec! So lets leave it at that! I know how you enjoy having the last word so as long as you dont demean me 2 much ill let you do that!

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Nielsen RH, Holm L, Malmgaard-Clausen NMl, Reitelseder Sr, Heinemeier KM, Kjaer M. Increase in tendon protein synthesis in response to insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) is preserved in elderly men. Journal of Applied Physiology. Increase in tendon protein synthesis in response to insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) is preserved in elderly men

Insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) is known to be an anabolic factor in tendon and the systemic levels are reduced with aging. However, it is uncertain how tendon fibroblasts are involved in tendon aging and how aging cells respond to IGF-I. The purpose of this study was to investigate the in vivo IGF-I stimulation of tendon protein synthesis in elderly compared to young men. We injected IGF-I into the patellar tendons of young (n=11, 20-30 years of age) and old (n=11, 66-75 years of age) men, and the acute fractional synthesis rate (FSR) of tendon protein was measured with the stable isotope technique and compared to the contra lateral side (injected with saline as control). We found that tendons injected with IGF-I had significantly higher protein FSR compared to controls (old group: 0.018 ± 0.015 vs. 0.008 ± 0.008, young group: 0.016 ± 0.009 vs. 0.009 ± 0.006 %/h, mean ± SEM, p<0.01). This increase in protein synthesis was seen in both young and old men, with no differences between age groups. The old group had markedly lower serum IGF-I levels compared to young (165 ± 17 vs. 281 ± 27 ng/ml, p<0.01). In conclusion, local IGF-I stimulated tendon protein synthesis in both young and old men, despite lower systemic IGF-I levels in the old group. This could indicate that the changed phenotype in aging tendon is not caused by decreased fibroblast function.

 

[Dr JIM]

Nice post DOC!

 

[Galileo]

Nice query Sir Galileo.

I don't believe there is any debate about whether GH enhances collagenous strength it does.

This is well substantiated in patients with GIANTISM because of EXCESSIVE endogenous GH secretion and more recently with stem cell research.

Moreover the effect of GH on collagen are much more SELECTIVE than AAS, (which at present is believed to enhance skeletal muscle PS almost exclusively and as evidenced by the study posted above may in fact be deleterious especially in the post operative patient where ENHANCED perfusion is a CRITICAL component of wound healing. (Recall the study suggested AAS may decrease blood flow)

Furthermore the effects of GH on protein synthesis appear to be relatively uniform.

That is it improves protein synthesis, mitosis and subsequent reproduction in ALMOST ALL CELL LINES, including the VASCULAR system!
(FYI, It's postulated this "reproductive effect" may be responsible for the ASSOCIATION between elevated IGF levels and certain forms of cancer)

Finally GH accelerates protein synthesis by TWO mechanisms HYPERPLASIA which results in an increase in the NUMBER of cells, and HYPERTROPHY which causes the SIZE of a give cell to increase. In contradistinction the effects of AAS are the exclusive result of HYPERTROPHY.

Now why does that matter?

The possibility of maintaining "gains" are likely greatly enhanced when it is the result of HYPERPLASIA especially compared to HYPERTROPHY!

Jim

Thank you for your reply.

Is there evidence for hyperplasia in humans? I recall reading that whilst demonstated in animals, it has not been in humans. And that some things that cause hyperplasia in animals do not cause hyperplasia in humans.

I suppose cases of gigantism and the stem cell stuff you mention is evidence of the effect on collagen synthesis.

I am not questioning the validity of your statements. It is simply a matter that I find very, very interesting.

Thank you.

 

[Dr JIM]

There are TWO means in mechanisms by which cells "grow". In adolescents and before hyperplasia is the predominant mechanism while in adults hyperplasia is almost the only means.

 

[Dr JIM]

Damn that was pathetic

 

[Big_paul]

seems to me deca has always work well stacked with test to prevent joint pain or injury. ive know more than a few friends who have fucked up using winnie. torn pec's and biceps seen to be most common. another mistake ive seen is that alot of guys don't understand that you have to bring tendons up slowly . I was natural for several years before beginning to use aas so it wasnt like i was stacking dbol and test the first time and increased bench by 30lbs in the second week and tore a peck. but have still had damage. that was just inexperience and ego getting in the way,
go slow. be patient and safe and i guarantee good things will happen.
go slow and use moderate weight with higher reps for the first year to be safe.
there a bros here who have studied more than i, but i speak from personal experience only for what its worth.

 

[searay]

seems to me deca has always work well stacked with test to prevent joint pain or injury. ive know more than a few friends who have fucked up using winnie. torn pec's and biceps seen to be most common. another mistake ive seen is that alot of guys don't understand that you have to bring tendons up slowly . I was natural for several years before beginning to use aas so it wasnt like i was stacking dbol and test the first time and increased bench by 30lbs in the second week and tore a peck. but have still had damage. that was just inexperience and ego getting in the way,
go slow. be patient and safe and i guarantee good things will happen.
go slow and use moderate weight with higher reps for the first year to be safe.
there a bros here who have studied more than i, but i speak from personal experience only for what its worth.

Agree with about everything you said but with the situation in what you speak of was not mine! Ive lifted since I was 13 now im 53! Was stronger and bigger natural and oh yea younger! My joints and tendons definitely have some ware! The deca has helped tremendously used like you said along with test, etc!

 

[scubasteve]

I have tendonitis in my forearm muscle that attaches to my elbow. Did eq work for anyone

 

[scubasteve]

Yea inject e3d intramuscular for 21 days then take off for 2 months.... there's good talk about it

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

I hope you die a slow agonizing death soon....

 

[Dr JIM]

Hey Perimeds the sale of NONPEDs is not permitted so get the FUCK out of here.

 

[Dr JIM]

To be deleted shortly!!!

 

[scubasteve]

I have a tendon problem think it's in my forearm around by the elbow. Haven't checked of test so that could be it. Haven't been to gym I'm two months bc it hurts and it's getting better but pain is still there

 

[Dr JIM]

I have a tendon problem think it's in my forearm around by the elbow. Haven't checked of test so that could be it. Haven't been to gym I'm two months bc it hurts and it's getting better but pain is still there

You haven't been to the GYM for two months because of presumed tendonitis?

Hmm ANY sincere BB/lifter would have returned to the GYM after weeks one OR would have sought an evaluation by a physician.


Well so what EXACTLY is your question.

jim

 

[scubasteve]

I been to dr coupe times, I took off the weeks went back a week and it's still there. I'm wondering if it's more serious than tendinitis. I'm switching to p90x on Monday but can't really nice moderate weight around

 

[Dr JIM]

Where does it hurt about the elbow, medial region or outside area?

What did your doc say was wrong, the formal diagnosis given?

What therapy was attempted?

Di you see a specialist Ortho in particular?

jim

 

[scubasteve]

Where does it hurt about the elbow, medial region or outside area?

What did your doc say was wrong, the formal diagnosis given?

What therapy was attempted?

Di you see a specialist Ortho in particular?

jim

its the bottom forearm in the elbow area. My dr suggested rest. They said tendinitis

 

[write]

original poster . thanks great infos

 

[Ihatecivic]

Thx for the info!