Labs after sub-q trt, E2 & hematocrit skyhigh!

[testo66]

Hi all,

I just received my lab results taken one month after switching to my new sub-Q protocol:

62.5mg sub-Q T enanthate 2 X week (total 125mg EW) + 250IU sub-Q HCG 2X week (total 500IU EW).
both injected at the same evening, each of them in a different place in the abdomen.

I'm 23, healthy and trying eating healthy - low carbs/high protein/moderate good fats.
eating 200 grams of cruciferous vegetables every day (broccoli/cleavage).
supplementing daily with fish oil, vit C, multivitamin (no iron), zinc, magnesium, TMG, creatine, MSM, & 5000IU vit-d.
training regularly in the gym.

blood was taken on 10/02/2014, the morning of my scheduled day for the first weekly evening injection:

DHEA SO4 7.78 UMOL/L ( 7.60- 17.40) (*........)
ESTRADIOL(E2) 196.42 PMOL/L ( 0.00- 146.10) (.........)*
FSH < 0.8 ( 1.40- 18.10)
LH < 0.2 ( 1.50- 9.30)
PROLACTIN 178.86 MU/L ( 45.00- 375.00) (...*.....)
TESTOSTERONE 33.31 NMOL/L ( 8.40- 28.70) (.........)*
FREE ANDROGEN INDEX 86.20 ( 30.00- 150.00) (...*.....)
SHBG 41.10 NMOL/L ( 13.00- 71.00) (...*.....)

FREE T4 13.20 PMOL/L ( 9.00- 19.00) (...*.....)
FREE T3 3.00 PMOL/L ( 2.66- 5.70) (*........)
TSH 2.03 UIU/ML ( 0.35- 4.94) (..*......)

WBC 4.60 K/UL ( 4.00- 10.00) (*........)
NEUTROPHILS 2.60 K/UL ( 1.80- 6.60) (.*.......)
NEUTROPHILS % 57.30 % ( 46.00- 68.00) (....*....)
LYMPHOCYTES 1.50 K/UL ( 1.10- 3.50) (.*.......)
LYMPHOCYTES % 32.00 % ( 15.00- 45.00) (....*....)
MONOCYTES 0.40 K/UL ( 0.08- 0.90) (...*.....)
MONOCYTES % 8.80 % ( 2.00- 9.00) (........*)
EOSINOPHILS 0.10 K/UL ( 0.00- 0.60) (.*.......)
EOSINOPHILS % 1.50 % ( 0.00- 6.00) (.*.......)
BASOPHILS 0.00 K/UL ( 0.00- 0.15)
BASOPHILS % 0.40 % ( 0.00- 1.50) (.*.......)
RBC 5.38 MU/L ( 4.30- 6.00) (.....*...)
HEMOGLOBIN 17.30 G/DL ( 13.50- 17.50) (........*)
HEMATOCRIT 49.90 % ( 38.00- 50.00) (........*)
MCV 92.80 FL ( 80.00- 98.00) (.....*...)
MCH 32.10 PG ( 27.00- 33.00) (.......*.)
MCHC 34.60 G/DL ( 32.00- 35.50) (......*..)
PLATELETS 161.00 K/UL ( 150.00- 400.00) (*........)
MPV 7.80 FL ( 6.50- 11.50) (.*.......)
RDW 13.80 % ( 11.00- 16.00) (....*....)

a few questions came up:

1. ESTRADIOL -it is way above normal range! what should i do? i thought that SC injection should lower it.
is Arimidex/anastrozole the only solution? what exactly should I ask my doc, and what is the recommended dosage?

2. I currently have no place to get an AI, would taking dim(diindolylmethane) or Indole-3-carbinol may help?

3. should I consider changing my protocol (HCG dosage/frequency)?​

4. HEMATOCRIT - very high. with androgel I never got those high numbers.
does it mean I must donate blood? is it a regular donation or RBC only donation? I never done this before.
are there other ways of decreasing it?

5. HEMOGLOBIN -very high too. is it correlated with HEMATOCRIT? same questions for it.

6. DHEA SO4 - it is almost bellow range, what does that indicate? should I look into it?

7. how are my T / FREE ANDROGEN INDEX / SHBG values?

8. lastly - what do my TSH/T3/T4 indicate about my thyroid?
from measurements I took for a week I'm getting 36.0 celsius (96.8 fahrenheit) every morning in bed before getting up.
am I iodine deficient? noting again that I'm eating 200 grams of cruciferous vegetables each day (which may interfere with iodine intake).

sorry I have so many questions,
I appreciate any help.

 

[kenseth17cd]

Lower your dose

 

[LW64]

Stop taking HCG until you get your TT and E2 under control by reducing your T dose. Start at something like 40 or 50 mg 2x/week. Many men find it difficult if not impossible to keep their E2 under control when taking HCG with T. Once your TT and E2 are normalized on T only, you will need to reduce your T dose further and add in HCG. It's a trial-and-error process that takes time and patience.

Your thyroid is fine. Stop taking your temperature.

Now, please tell us WHY a 23 year old is on TRT?? (Seriously)

 

[stallion]

I'm not sure what your worried about. Your hematocrit and hemoglobin are in range. Anyone in this lifestyle has elevated hemglobin and hematocrit numbers. Simply eating a lot of meat can give you a bump in these numbers.

 

[cvictorg]

Hi all,

I just received my lab results taken one month after switching to my new sub-Q protocol:

62.5mg sub-Q T enanthate 2 X week (total 125mg EW) + 250IU sub-Q HCG 2X week (total 500IU EW).
both injected at the same evening, each of them in a different place in the abdomen.

I'm 23, healthy and trying eating healthy - low carbs/high protein/moderate good fats.
eating 200 grams of cruciferous vegetables every day (broccoli/cleavage).
supplementing daily with fish oil, vit C, multivitamin (no iron), zinc, magnesium, TMG, creatine, MSM, & 5000IU vit-d.
training regularly in the gym.

blood was taken on 10/02/2014, the morning of my scheduled day for the first weekly evening injection:

DHEA SO4 7.78 UMOL/L ( 7.60- 17.40) (*........)
ESTRADIOL(E2) 196.42 PMOL/L ( 0.00- 146.10) (.........)*
FSH < 0.8 ( 1.40- 18.10)
LH < 0.2 ( 1.50- 9.30)
PROLACTIN 178.86 MU/L ( 45.00- 375.00) (...*.....)
TESTOSTERONE 33.31 NMOL/L ( 8.40- 28.70) (.........)*
FREE ANDROGEN INDEX 86.20 ( 30.00- 150.00) (...*.....)
SHBG 41.10 NMOL/L ( 13.00- 71.00) (...*.....)

FREE T4 13.20 PMOL/L ( 9.00- 19.00) (...*.....)
FREE T3 3.00 PMOL/L ( 2.66- 5.70) (*........)
TSH 2.03 UIU/ML ( 0.35- 4.94) (..*......)

WBC 4.60 K/UL ( 4.00- 10.00) (*........)
NEUTROPHILS 2.60 K/UL ( 1.80- 6.60) (.*.......)
NEUTROPHILS % 57.30 % ( 46.00- 68.00) (....*....)
LYMPHOCYTES 1.50 K/UL ( 1.10- 3.50) (.*.......)
LYMPHOCYTES % 32.00 % ( 15.00- 45.00) (....*....)
MONOCYTES 0.40 K/UL ( 0.08- 0.90) (...*.....)
MONOCYTES % 8.80 % ( 2.00- 9.00) (........*)
EOSINOPHILS 0.10 K/UL ( 0.00- 0.60) (.*.......)
EOSINOPHILS % 1.50 % ( 0.00- 6.00) (.*.......)
BASOPHILS 0.00 K/UL ( 0.00- 0.15)
BASOPHILS % 0.40 % ( 0.00- 1.50) (.*.......)
RBC 5.38 MU/L ( 4.30- 6.00) (.....*...)
HEMOGLOBIN 17.30 G/DL ( 13.50- 17.50) (........*)
HEMATOCRIT 49.90 % ( 38.00- 50.00) (........*)
MCV 92.80 FL ( 80.00- 98.00) (.....*...)
MCH 32.10 PG ( 27.00- 33.00) (.......*.)
MCHC 34.60 G/DL ( 32.00- 35.50) (......*..)
PLATELETS 161.00 K/UL ( 150.00- 400.00) (*........)
MPV 7.80 FL ( 6.50- 11.50) (.*.......)
RDW 13.80 % ( 11.00- 16.00) (....*....)

a few questions came up:

1. ESTRADIOL -it is way above normal range! what should i do? i thought that SC injection should lower it.
is Arimidex/anastrozole the only solution? what exactly should I ask my doc, and what is the recommended dosage?

2. I currently have no place to get an AI, would taking dim(diindolylmethane) or Indole-3-carbinol may help?

3. should I consider changing my protocol (HCG dosage/frequency)?​

4. HEMATOCRIT - very high. with androgel I never got those high numbers.
does it mean I must donate blood? is it a regular donation or RBC only donation? I never done this before.
are there other ways of decreasing it?

5. HEMOGLOBIN -very high too. is it correlated with HEMATOCRIT? same questions for it.

6. DHEA SO4 - it is almost bellow range, what does that indicate? should I look into it?

7. how are my T / FREE ANDROGEN INDEX / SHBG values?

8. lastly - what do my TSH/T3/T4 indicate about my thyroid?
from measurements I took for a week I'm getting 36.0 celsius (96.8 fahrenheit) every morning in bed before getting up.
am I iodine deficient? noting again that I'm eating 200 grams of cruciferous vegetables each day (which may interfere with iodine intake).

sorry I have so many questions,
I appreciate any help.

Question - why are you doing TRT at age 23? When did you start? Why did you start?

What was you old protocol before switching to subQ?

Are you doing this under a doctor's care or are you self-administering?

Everything is within range with the exception of E2 and TT.

Lower the dose - try 50mgs 2x/wk

 

[corageon]

Question - why are you doing TRT at age 23? When did you start? Why did you start?

What was you old protocol before switching to subQ?

Are you doing this under a doctor's care or are you self-administering?

Everything is within range with the exception of E2 and TT.

Lower the dose - try 50mgs 2x/wk

I don't see why an AI wasn't used in the first place.

 

[testo66]

thanks for the quick replays,

more info about me:
I have pretty low body fat - around 10%, and I actually drink a lot (water, no alcohol at all ).
my TRT was doctor guided for a year but unfortunately my doc was only willing to go with Androgel, not to mention SC injection and HCG, so now I am only periodically check up with him.
I started the treatment due to low levels of testosterone (leading to low sex drive and fatigue and other symptoms).

Blood tests before starting treatment:
FREE TESTOST. PMOL / L 15.10
FSH MIU / ML 2.05
GH NG / ML 0.75
LH MIU / ML 2.00
PRG-17-OH NMOL / L 1.70
PROGESTERONE NMOL / L 2.23
PROLACTIN M / UL 95.03
FREE T4 PMOL / L 13.00
TESTOSTERONE NMOL / L 7.14
TSH UIU / ML 2.35

I did many tests before starting the treatment - but there was no apparent reason for the low T levels (LH levels were not elevated...).

Treatment: TestoMax gel (like Androgel) 50 MG once daily for the past year, the values increased and the general feeling and the symptoms have been greatly improved, but it was not convenient and I had some side effects.

lab results after eight months with that treatment:
DHEA SO4 UMOL/L 6.16
ESTRADIOL(E2) PMOL/L 94.47
FREE TESTOST. PMOL/L 78.70
FSH < 0.8
LH < 0.2
PROLACTIN M/UL 94.24
TESTOSTERONE NMOL/L 18.20
TSH UIU/ML 2.40
VIT.D 25-OH NG/ML 53.60

****

thanks for the the info about Hct and Hgb, just another detail - I have pretty low blood pressure (95/60 and less) and pulse (60),
does it matter?

I'm now considering injecting the HCG a day before the T instead of both together (did it for convenience only),
would it make much of a difference E2 wise?

and I'm somewhat unsure if the HCG dose is effective, is there a way to tell?
blood test values or even something with pregnancy test I think I once read...

about high E2 - well I currently don't have high E2 symptoms, but should I worry about gyno? what are the indicators that thing get worse?

should I have obtain a SERM just to have a quick treatment if a gyno will occur, and if so which one is recommended?

many say the optimal E2 is about 22(pg/ml) while mine is 53, but again I understand that T is high too?
what is ratio of E2/T or E2/free T that I should seek?
as for lowering my T dose - as long as that ratio is in place what's bad in having a bit more of both?
any long term health considerations?

from an online calculator I got these values (from SHBG+FAI):
free testosterone - 0.705 nmol/L = %2.12
bioavailable testosterone - 16.5 nmol/L = %49.6

just for my understanding - should I seek lowering SHBG to have more free T?
how do I effect it?

thanks again for the help.

 

[hebsie]

I have pretty low body fat - around 10%, and I actually drink a lot (water, no alcohol at all ).
my TRT was doctor guided for a year but unfortunately my doc was only willing to go with Androgel, not to mention SC injection and HCG, so now I am only periodically check up with him.
I started the treatment due to low levels of testosterone (leading to low sex drive and fatigue and other symptoms).

.

...prior to starting TRT, any history of extreme dieting, food group restriction (like low-carb Paleo), weight loss, and/or excessive exercise???

 

[testo66]

thanks for the quick response,

prior to trt I was on some low carb high protein diet, but since then I had a lot of dieting changes including a recent TRT break for half a year with high protein, moderate fat and low carb diet resulting same low T blood tests... why?

I recently started taking natural way's "DIM plus" once daily each evening,
and also shifted my HCG shots a day back - a day before my T shot E3D.
hope they both help lowering the E2, I'll do another lab test soon.


I'll appreciate any help about the questions and concerns I wrote in my previous post, mainly -
is my thyroid performing well?
how to tell if HCG dose is effective?
what are the symptoms of high E2, and from what level there is a risk of gyno?

what is ratio of E2/T or E2/freeT that I should seek?

and as for lowering my T dose - as long as that ratio is in place what's bad in having a bit more of both?
any long term health considerations?
I do think I benefit from the higher T levels.


thanks again.

 

[testo66]

any help guys?

 

[testo66]

Hi guys, quick question:

tomorrow morning I'm planning to take another blood test,
and today's evening is my weekly first HCG injection (as tomorrow is the weekly first T injection).

just a reminder - my protocol is:
62.5mg sub-Q T enanthate 2 X week (total 125mg EW)
250IU sub-Q HCG 2X week (total 500IU EW), a day before The T injection day.


should I inject the HCG today or not?

on the one hand injecting it today will obviously affect the blood test tomorrow morning (which is mainly to check the high E2 values I got in the last test),
but on the other hand - not injecting it today meaning that the values I'll get in the test tomorrow will not reflect the real E2 blood values that I normally have with my protocol - and that is what I really want to find out...

I know the recommendation is to take blood test on the day of the weekly T shot - before the shot (and that's what I do),
but what about the HCG?

thanks for the help.

 

[foreveryoung]

how are you feeling? how is libido? how is erection quality and orgasm quality? desire, function etc.?

 

[glycomann]

I use to work in the clinical labs. Your numbers are OK. The estradiol is a little high. If you have good sex drive and no nipple tenderness or prostate issues you are OK. If you want it a little lower then you might consider adding in a little bit of aromatase inhibitor like arimidex.