Mass Spec Thread

[mercury]

I feel like there is a labmax rep on every corner... but its just you.

I wish there was GC/MS on each corner. I think that most of the GC/MS results are faked. I have seen lab results done by NAPS, I do not think that there is a lab which would go public with steroids testing for UG labs. They must fake them.

There was one lab in New Jersey close to a place I lived but it was 10 years ago, you could almost walk in and pay them for analysis. But they do no more. I guess LE paid them visit.

 

[4leafclover]

And here is a video that is much shorter, that also shows a basic overview of how mass spec works. As for labmax, its a nice tool for what it does, but make no mistake, mass specs are what science uses to determine chemical and mass compounds for research processes, so this is by far, the best method to use (of course it does have it's limitations, and other tests are needed for those). The limitations of mass spec are related to bacteria (it can detect it, but only over a certain threshold). Trace enzymes can also be detected, but not identified.

 

[4leafclover]

A really good read is from William Llewellyn, he has regularly published research on underground steroid labs, and conducts mass spec on quite a few of them, and he discusses in depth the results of that testing. His book is named Underground Anabolics. If you are savvy enough with the computer, you can find the book for free. He has published I think 5 years worth of research on the subject.

 

[mercury]

I had this book a few years ago, very good information but I have not been able to find reliable source to get the steroids he tested. I think this book is published once a year.

 

[inkandmuscle]

I had this book a few years ago, very good information but I have not been able to find reliable source to get the steroids he tested. I think this book is published once a year.

damn! that's a shame.. valuble information...
Id be more than happy to regularly test the gear coming through meso if I could get the hookup on where to MS

 

[pumpingiron22]

http://torion.com/home.html

 

[Millard]

A really good read is from William Llewellyn, he has regularly published research on underground steroid labs, and conducts mass spec on quite a few of them, and he discusses in depth the results of that testing. His book is named Underground Anabolics. If you are savvy enough with the computer, you can find the book for free. He has published I think 5 years worth of research on the subject.

I had this book a few years ago, very good information but I have not been able to find reliable source to get the steroids he tested. I think this book is published once a year.

Unfortunately, the Underground Anabolics book is not published annually. It may have been the original goal but @w_llewellyn told me he wasn't going to do it again.

Why? A big segment of the online community turned against him due to the influences of the source ecosystem -- including ugls/sources/admins/mods/vets -- that did their best to discredit him with smear campaigns as well as sources that threatened/blackmailed him and launched DDoS attacks against his website(s).

This is the price that is paid when you try to expose the poor quality control of UGLs.

As a supporter of @w_llewellyn's efforts, MESO experienced some blowback as well (but nothing quite as severe as what Bill went through).

I highly recommend buying a copy at Amazon - it's only $9.99. Even though the lab tests themselves are dated, the book is much more than a collection of lab tests.

 

[whodatnation]

The last version I think was 10 and it listed no ugl lab testing. Funny how little ripples in the pond can turn to waves on the other side. Messing with people's hustle can cause dire consequences. That's why a family man such as Myth just has to walk away and cease all work bringing him to the forefront.

Very good and informative reads though and wish I knew what I did with my copy I owned. Pumpingiron looking at that website it seems their lineup is geared towards field abilities to perform the mass spec. Am I correct in assuming that this stuff is for sell ?

 

[bickel29]

Unfortunately, the Underground Anabolics book is not published annually. It may have been the original goal but @w_llewellyn told me he wasn't going to do it again.

Why? A big segment of the online community turned against him due to the influences of the source ecosystem -- including ugls/sources/admins/mods/vets -- that did their best to discredit him with smear campaigns as well as sources that threatened/blackmailed him and launched DDoS attacks against his website(s).

This is the price that is paid when you try to expose the poor quality control of UGLs.

As a supporter of @w_llewellyn's efforts, MESO experienced some blowback as well (but nothing quite as severe as what Bill went through).

I highly recommend buying a copy at Amazon - it's only $9.99. Even though the lab tests themselves are dated, the book is much more than a collection of lab tests.

I still have old copies, barely hanging together by a beat up binder, due to being read so many times by me and many, many friends.

It wasn't unusual for that book to be passed around between buddies in the gym back in the day before this here internet thing took off (damn do I feel old typing that).

Bill Llewellyn's work was - hell still is - extremely influential for so many of us in this game. Dude was a trailblazer who made invaluable contributions!

 

[4leafclover]

Here is a very research based review of 29 steroids that were analyzed, be forewarned, if you are not familiar with research papers, this will be hard to read.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1044030597001220

I found these two sitting on the john, and they are a pretty good read for basic introductions to mass spec.

This one is a very good resource, its an Australian professor's notes. Also short and sweet.
http://www.freeradical.org.au/attachments/Mass%20Spec%2006.pdf

This is a slightly longer read, but still covers basic and intermediate principals of mass spec, it also goes over some of the history of mass spec use.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/mass-spectrometry.htm

Basically, this should put to rest anyone's ideas that mass specs aren't legit... The only thing you can debate about mass spec IMO are three things. 1: The integrity of the lab doing the testing 2: the integrity of the tester 3: faked or altered documents

Just as an FYI Mass spec was first used to detect steroids in the late 1950's, and has been refined many times over since then (it was not used for steroids in the form we know them, but organism steroid separation, as steroids exist in many forms).

Hopefully I have imparted some knowledge like was asked of me.

 

[4leafclover]

Oh, one last bit of knowledge, I found the book free for you on kindle. It's a PDF, cheers.

 

[Millard]

Basically, this should put to rest anyone's ideas that mass specs aren't legit... The only thing you can debate about mass spec IMO are three things. 1: The integrity of the lab doing the testing 2: the integrity of the tester 3: faked or altered documents

The most credible quality control testing program need to satisfactorily address all three of those issues.

I think finding an independent, DEA-licensed (or equivalent) laboratory will solve #1 and #3.

The best way to solve #2 is to have 100s or even 1000s of testers to submit samples. You will never be able to trust ALL of the testers. But with sufficiently large numbers of people submitting samples, I think the truth will become apparent.

 

[Millard]

Oh, one last bit of knowledge, I found the book free for you on kindle. It's a PDF, cheers.

Please remove. I don't want to promote pirated material on this forum especially when it involves the handful of people who spend the time and money to write such books for the AAS community.

 

[4leafclover]

You're right, sorry, removed.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...william+llewellyn&sprefix=anabolics+,null,193

Here are the two books you can purchase through amazon.

 

[kawilt]

Kindle offers the book free, I don't believe its pirated, as its from kindle. I can still remove it, if you don't approve, but I found it through kindle, not a pirated website. Let me know.

It's on Amazon Kindle. $9.99

 

[4leafclover]

Odd, because I googled kindle, ***, and what I got was the pirated version...

 

[pumpingiron22]

I have the 10 edition. So im guessing there will not be 11th edition?

 

[4leafclover]

10th edition and the e-book are his last publications.

 

[pumpingiron22]

@ whodat this is not my area ofv expertise but it does seen from research companies are making portal edition. And some looks like there in the works to build consumer versions. But like I said this is not my area expertise so I could be looking at the wrong machines. Worth a look though.

 

[Millard]

I have the 10 edition. So im guessing there will not be 11th edition?

I was referring to UNDERGROUND Anabolics book and not the ANABOLICS reference book. Sorry for the confusion