Mass Spec Thread

[bickel29]

Fucken Goose, I need you to record audio versions of these posts, and I need the downloaded files uploaded onto my iPod to listen to on my way into the gym. I'd probably use 6 plates as my warm up!
Like Road Warrior Hawk used to say, "WHAT A RUSH!".
You da man, Goose!

 

[Juice n Goose]

lets begin with a list of compounds we would reasonably like to see get tested.
Please,members feel free to weigh in on any and all compounds you wish to test!!
C'mon Men dont be shy!

Goose

 

[Millard]

I respectfully assert that I will NEVER get into a shooting match with Millard

Juice, always tell me how it is and not just what I want to hear and I will be happy

 

[Juice n Goose]

Sounds good! But what exactly does he mean by ONE clearinghouse? Samples come from one person/organization? Payments come from one person/organization?

No one should trust anyone. That's why the more different people sending in samples, the better. A 1000 average joes sending in one sample each is much better than 5 "pillars of the community" sending in a total of 1000 samples.

Very true. I wont argue that point but to say it seems at this point to be rather philosophical and moot. No lab would tolerate this. But the search continues I suppose.
I for one dont care to risk a customs reversal,i.e. will my sample get through to some other company in a far away land and if so when? Im an American. I prefer my stuff to be done by good old fashioned Americans. Also philosophical,I admit. But thats just me talkin'

Goose

 

[Colt44]

lets begin with a list of compounds we would reasonably like to see get tested.
Please,members feel free to weigh in on any and all compounds you wish to test!!
C'mon Men dont be shy!

Goose

Norma Test E.

 

[Millard]

I get what you are saying Millard. Especially for it to change the game on its head. Now from a personal level I am ok if it starts with me having to send to someone I trust and they forward it. I know it opens up holes as far as the whole community but on a personal level I would trust the results given. With that being said Millard you find us that lab I will send multiple samples. I love to see it. It is a broken system but it all has to start somewhere.

You are absolutely correct! If you can find an individual or lab that will do private testing that you trust, then that is great.

I am thinking more in terms of harm reduction at the community level.

 

[BIGMESC]

I really think we need hundreds if not 1000s.

I understand where you are coming from Millard.

The clearing house idea made sense to me but I see the potential for corruption and at minimum the opportunity for naysayers to cast doubt onto the process.

I do think it has to start somewhere and if it needs to be done by a few for the many at first then I am willing. Unfortunately history shows that those few are usually sacrificed in the end by the many for their greater good.

 

[Juice n Goose]

Juice, always tell me how it is and not just what I want to hear and I will be happy

I would never white-wash anyone. I dont have to. But a little respect is in my nature.
Here goes: Maybe in a few years or less, the idea of the "average Joe" submitting samples to labs at will could come true. I too would like to see this happen. But it aint happenin' today!
One has to begin at the beginning. Screw the smear campaigns. I remember in the Marines when a guy got popped on a piss test hed shout"NO F***ing WAY..NOT ME! The test is screwed"
but away his ass went to article 15. Because if the dipper came positive it was GC/MS'ed.
someday maybe it will be an open market but the good labs are limited in number. Besides if you could go to just anyone..every mom n' pop shop on the planet would try to do this. Its quantitative science and that is not dispensed from gumball machines. Only years of hard work at University.

 

[Millard]

I understand where you are coming from Millard.

The clearing house idea made sense to me but I see the potential for corruption and at minimum the opportunity for naysayers to cast doubt onto the process.

I do think it has to start somewhere and if it needs to be done by a few for the many at first then I am willing. Unfortunately history shows that those few are usually sacrificed in the end by the many for their greater good.

The clearinghouse idea creates an unnecessary hierarchy where the community places its trust in a few to determine the truth. It's not unlike a moderated or censored forum where a small group of moderators control the flow of information.

It could work out. But I would prefer it to be much more decentralized with the power resting in the hands of many many more individuals. The chances of success are much improved

 

[BIGMESC]

The clearinghouse idea creates an unnecessary hierarchy where the community places its trust in a few to determine the truth. It's not unlike a moderated or censored forum where a small group of moderators control the flow of information.

It could work out. But I would prefer it to be much more decentralized with the power resting in the hands of many many more individuals. The chances of success are much improved

Agreed

 

[Millard]

I would never white-wash anyone. I dont have to. But a little respect is in my nature.
Here goes: Maybe in a few years or less, the idea of the "average Joe" submitting samples to labs at will could come true. I too would like to see this happen. But it aint happenin' today!
One has to begin at the beginning. Screw the smear campaigns. I remember in the Marines when a guy got popped on a piss test hed shout"NO F***ing WAY..NOT ME! The test is screwed"
but away his ass went to article 15. Because if the dipper came positive it was GC/MS'ed.
someday maybe it will be an open market but the good labs are limited in number. Besides if you could go to just anyone..every mom n' pop shop on the planet would try to do this. Its quantitative science and that is not dispensed from gumball machines. Only years of hard work at University.

You may be right. But I would like to hold on to the belief that such testing for the average joe could be realized sooner rather than later

 

[mercury]

this should start with lobbying politician to change the law

 

[Juice n Goose]

The clearinghouse idea creates an unnecessary hierarchy where the community places its trust in a few to determine the truth. It's not unlike a moderated or censored forum where a small group of moderators control the flow of information.

It could work out. But I would prefer it to be much more decentralized with the power resting in the hands of many many more individuals. The chances of success are much improved

What about a rotating band of Brothers? Or an elected committee,like a democracy. Anyone could run for an opportunity to be the workhorse.
The only issue I'm afraid with my lab is he(the business manager of over 580 employees) doesnt want a zillion people calling a million times to check on a sample. This would have to be treated with respect and professionalism,which our men possess an ENORMOUS amount of. Im not trying to be"the man" I only want us men to STOP pounding God knows only what in our arse!. Im not saying I would be the liason to this lab But I would be willing to do it cause I could give a RATSARSE if the ugl's tried to smear me. How many of you wait expectantly for your gear to find 16 weeks later its shite? F++k them...they are NOT our friends!!!!!!!! They are to quote a phrase"drug dealers" period. They dont give a damn what happens to us. we go to hospital with sores and abcesses..do they care? Hell NO! Do they laugh as thousands of us squirt no hormone oil in our butts..Hell YES!!!
WE CAN STOP IT!!! NOW!

Lets noodle this one out where the majority is cool with it and get 'er DONE!!

Goose

 

[Juice n Goose]

this should start with lobbying politician to change the law

Yah..I nominate you to get right on that mercury!! ALL in Favor?
Goose

 

[Juice n Goose]

You may be right. But I would like to hold on to the belief that such testing for the average joe could be realized sooner rather than later

Me too Millard. Me too!
Goose

 

[pittbox]

Well lobbying is what politicians do best.
If testing became more available and use became more educated and widespread and accepted that would mean more of our own personal health would be in our own hands.
I don't know if anybody's poked their head out and looked around lately but that seems to be exactly what they don't want.
Do we really even want our lifestyle spread across the mainstream?
The fact that it is illegal is part of the thrill for me. Don't we all like sticking our finger in big brothers eye now and then.
Remember the old saying, careful what you wish for.

Raising Safety and quality standards is the #1 priority either way.

 

[Millard]

What about a rotating band of Brothers? Or an elected committee,like a democracy. Anyone could run for an opportunity to be the workhorse.
The only issue I'm afraid with my lab is he(the business manager of over 580 employees) doesnt want a zillion people calling a million times to check on a sample. This would have to be treated with respect and professionalism,which our men possess an ENORMOUS amount of. Im not trying to be"the man" I only want us men to STOP pounding God knows only what in our arse!. Im not saying I would be the liason to this lab But I would be willing to do it cause I could give a RATSARSE if the ugl's tried to smear me. How many of you wait expectantly for your gear to find 16 weeks later its shite? F++k them...they are NOT our friends!!!!!!!! They are to quote a phrase"drug dealers" period. They dont give a damn what happens to us. we go to hospital with sores and abcesses..do they care? Hell NO! Do they laugh as thousands of us squirt no hormone oil in our butts..Hell YES!!!
WE CAN STOP IT!!! NOW!

Lets noodle this one out where the majority is cool with it and get 'er DONE!!

Goose

Anything that maximizes the the number of people sending in samples would help.

As one example, the first 50 with samples on hand to ship to the lab asap would have testing done this month. An entirely different 50 next month and so on.

Another question is who pays for the testing?

 

[noah_k]

Bitcoin pool that minimizes individual cost? Or taking turns, with one member paying the lump sum at a time, while accepting voluntary donations? Either way, rotating between members as Goose says and keeping the total (potentially lost) cost low (and the incentive for good souls to turn bad low)

 

[Millard]

Bitcoin pool that minimizes individual cost? Or taking turns, with one member paying the lump sum at a time, while accepting voluntary donations? Either way, rotating between members as Goose says and keeping the total (potentially lost) cost low (and the incentive for good souls to turn bad low)

My initial hope was for MESO to sponsor the testing and negotiate a special rate based on at least x number of samples submitted per month and individual members submitting samples would include anonymous cash payment (much like DDL does for EcstasyData.org). All analyses would then be publicly posted on a website dedicated to this testing.

Unfortunately, I've encountered some resistance to this type of anonymous payment option.

If I'm interpreting what @Juice n Goose is saying about one "clearinghouse" dealing with the lab, it may mean most labs only wants to deal with one contact for sample submission and/or payment. They don't want to have multiple cash payments from dozens of different people.

IF MESO or any other one individual/entity made a deal with the lab to cover costs of testing in a given month, you know the lab won't accept bitcoin. That would mean that someone must write a check for $5000+ to the lab every month based on the number of samples I expect would be submitted after the first few months.

MESO could pay the lab for the testing (and use its marketing resources to solicit voluntary donations, etc) but that essentially makes MESO a "clearinghouse" for payment.

 

[Voltrader]

Hmmm another conundrum. What if we put together a dark pool there has to be a way. Dummy account for fund transferring. A offshore aCcount made up of 3-4 other entities made up of other entities putting a veil and a long paper trail to connect the pieces. Enough layers of protection to protect personal interest. Setting up an offshore account has some upfront costs but minimal. Probably a little to much detail in the open.