MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
My PCT Journal to kickstart HPTA post HRT
- Thread starter BigAk
- Start date
Day 28:
I think things are finally starting to come around.. Today started out well and remained this way throughout the day... However, now that it's around 8pm, I'm starting to get worn out.. I just feel very blah as far as mood. Maybe the cold is still messing with my head a bit.
Last night I had my first dream and woke up with an AM wood around 2:30am... Maybe that's why I woke up in a good mood this morning.... I hope that my libido is starting to come back.
I was hoping to get my bloodwork results back, but it didn't happen. Not sure what to expect from this bloodwork. They are only 12 days since my last shot of HCG. During the last 12 days, I have crashed really bad then started bouncing back at intervals of ups and downs. I just want to see what level of LH and FSH are being fired.. I'm also measuring Prolactin in addition to total T and free T.
I think things are finally starting to come around.. Today started out well and remained this way throughout the day... However, now that it's around 8pm, I'm starting to get worn out.. I just feel very blah as far as mood. Maybe the cold is still messing with my head a bit.
Last night I had my first dream and woke up with an AM wood around 2:30am... Maybe that's why I woke up in a good mood this morning.... I hope that my libido is starting to come back.
I was hoping to get my bloodwork results back, but it didn't happen. Not sure what to expect from this bloodwork. They are only 12 days since my last shot of HCG. During the last 12 days, I have crashed really bad then started bouncing back at intervals of ups and downs. I just want to see what level of LH and FSH are being fired.. I'm also measuring Prolactin in addition to total T and free T.
Got bad news today guys..... I'm not sure what to think or do.. Here are my lab results 12 days after last shot of HCG.
Total T ..... 77........(241-827)
Free T....... 0.8......(8.7-25.1)
LH..............0.5......(1.5-9.3)
FSH...........0.3......(1.4.18.1)
Prolactin...9.9......(2.1-17.7)
That is very discouraging given that I've been on clomid for 30 days now... What seems to be the problem.. Is there someting wrong with the clomid.. I got it from pump@pose. Shall I get clomid from somewhere else??? If so, where??
Please help.
Total T ..... 77........(241-827)
Free T....... 0.8......(8.7-25.1)
LH..............0.5......(1.5-9.3)
FSH...........0.3......(1.4.18.1)
Prolactin...9.9......(2.1-17.7)
That is very discouraging given that I've been on clomid for 30 days now... What seems to be the problem.. Is there someting wrong with the clomid.. I got it from pump@pose. Shall I get clomid from somewhere else??? If so, where??
Please help.
BigAk said:
I actually waited a month after I was finished with the PCT and started another cycle.
I had everything laying around so I went for it.
I am 1 week into PCT right now tomorrow.
Wild thing is my strength is still going up.
BigAk said:Got bad news today guys..... I'm not sure what to think or do.. Here are my lab results 12 days after last shot of HCG.
Total T ..... 77........(241-827)
Free T....... 0.8......(8.7-25.1)
LH..............0.5......(1.5-9.3)
FSH...........0.3......(1.4.18.1)
Prolactin...9.9......(2.1-17.7)
That is very discouraging given that I've been on clomid for 30 days now... What seems to be the problem.. Is there someting wrong with the clomid.. I got it from pump@pose. Shall I get clomid from somewhere else??? If so, where??
Please help.
Wow man, that really sucks.
Morning wood is always a good thing.
Just found this.
Effect of vitamin E on function of pituitary-gonadal axis in male rats and human subjects.
Umeda F, Kato K, Muta K, Ibayashi H.
The role of vitamin E in the endocrine system, in particular the pituitary-gonadal axis, was studied in humans and male rats by examining the hormonal differences between vitamin E deficient and supplemented conditions. In vitamin E deficient rats, pituitary content and basal plasma level of FSH and LH were significantly lower than those of the control rats, but testicular content and basal plasma level of testosterone were not significantly changed. On the other hand, in vitamin E supplemented rats, FSH and LH content in pituitary tissue was significantly higher than that of the controls, but there was no significant rise in basal FSH and LH level in plasma. The testosterone level was significantly elevated in both testicular tissue and plasma. It was also demonstrated that basal plasma testosterone and F.T.I. were increased in normal male subjects following oral vitamin E administration and the responsiveness of plasma testosterone levels to HCG was significantly higher during vitamin E administration than before administration. These results suggest that vitamin E may play an important and potent role in hormone production in the pituitary-gonadal axis in humans and rats.
PMID: 6816576 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Effect of vitamin E on function of pituitary-gonadal axis in male rats and human subjects.
Umeda F, Kato K, Muta K, Ibayashi H.
The role of vitamin E in the endocrine system, in particular the pituitary-gonadal axis, was studied in humans and male rats by examining the hormonal differences between vitamin E deficient and supplemented conditions. In vitamin E deficient rats, pituitary content and basal plasma level of FSH and LH were significantly lower than those of the control rats, but testicular content and basal plasma level of testosterone were not significantly changed. On the other hand, in vitamin E supplemented rats, FSH and LH content in pituitary tissue was significantly higher than that of the controls, but there was no significant rise in basal FSH and LH level in plasma. The testosterone level was significantly elevated in both testicular tissue and plasma. It was also demonstrated that basal plasma testosterone and F.T.I. were increased in normal male subjects following oral vitamin E administration and the responsiveness of plasma testosterone levels to HCG was significantly higher during vitamin E administration than before administration. These results suggest that vitamin E may play an important and potent role in hormone production in the pituitary-gonadal axis in humans and rats.
PMID: 6816576 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
No atrophy yet?
we could only be guessing
I'm trying to figure out what I did differently compared to how you did it, (although that is not foolproof, as individuals are individuals)
hcg is suppressive to your hypo and pit... not sure if anything good was being achieved while you were doing both hcg and the serms... that is one thing I did differently
clomid is said to be suppressive as well, I know when I did mine I did a high dose but tapered it rapidly and only did the clomid for 10 days, the nolvadex I did through the whole 30 days tapered.... I think something important happens in getting off the clomid after its initial stimulatory purpose has been achieved, and then coasting with the nolva
as it stands now, your testicles are working great, but the rest of your axis is underachieving, going back on trt or hcg will totally set you back to square one again (or in the way endocrine systems seem to work, set you back worse than square one)
ARE you on nolvadex now? what dosage?
I'm trying to figure out what I did differently compared to how you did it, (although that is not foolproof, as individuals are individuals)
hcg is suppressive to your hypo and pit... not sure if anything good was being achieved while you were doing both hcg and the serms... that is one thing I did differently
clomid is said to be suppressive as well, I know when I did mine I did a high dose but tapered it rapidly and only did the clomid for 10 days, the nolvadex I did through the whole 30 days tapered.... I think something important happens in getting off the clomid after its initial stimulatory purpose has been achieved, and then coasting with the nolva
as it stands now, your testicles are working great, but the rest of your axis is underachieving, going back on trt or hcg will totally set you back to square one again (or in the way endocrine systems seem to work, set you back worse than square one)
ARE you on nolvadex now? what dosage?
His testicles were producing but now they are not.
I think the HCG was working as evidence of his normal test levels while on HCG.
Maybe his SERM's are not any good.
If the serms were no good then LH and FSH would be low, which they are.
If the serms were working LH, FSH and T would be more.
Right?
I have never heard of clomid being supressive.
I think the HCG was working as evidence of his normal test levels while on HCG.
Maybe his SERM's are not any good.
If the serms were no good then LH and FSH would be low, which they are.
If the serms were working LH, FSH and T would be more.
Right?
I have never heard of clomid being supressive.
I wish I had an encyclopedic memory of where I find the stuff I read... I recall specifically that clomid is 'suppressive' by actually desensitizing the receptors in the pituitary to the influence of gnrh I believe, now I have to do some searching for the study on that one, but it was theorized that the benefits in stimulating the hpta would start to be countered by this inhibitory effect after a certain period of time
Yes, I agree, the HCG was working, as his testicles are working, even now with low FSH and LH, this doesn't prove that the HCG was working to achieve the final goal, just proves that HCG worked to stimulate his testicles to produce. If there was a feasible long term hcg hrt method, then that would be great, but any of us that have tried to live on hcg alone for any period of time finds out that the dosing and time-duration-effects are impossible to optimize (maybe an insulin pump might work? completely off topic to his current issue though)
The bottom line is that your hypo and pit are not producing as much fsh and lh as they should be, any studies I have seen show that these values should be at their highest while still on your nolvadex protocal.
What would I do if it was me? You say you are feeling ok and strength is ok, so it seems to me it is not a panic emergency, I would stay the course on the nolva, take no clomid, no hcg, no test, and see how your numbers look in a week or two.
Yes, I agree, the HCG was working, as his testicles are working, even now with low FSH and LH, this doesn't prove that the HCG was working to achieve the final goal, just proves that HCG worked to stimulate his testicles to produce. If there was a feasible long term hcg hrt method, then that would be great, but any of us that have tried to live on hcg alone for any period of time finds out that the dosing and time-duration-effects are impossible to optimize (maybe an insulin pump might work? completely off topic to his current issue though)
The bottom line is that your hypo and pit are not producing as much fsh and lh as they should be, any studies I have seen show that these values should be at their highest while still on your nolvadex protocal.
What would I do if it was me? You say you are feeling ok and strength is ok, so it seems to me it is not a panic emergency, I would stay the course on the nolva, take no clomid, no hcg, no test, and see how your numbers look in a week or two.
chap said:
Yes, you are correct that clomid can desentitize the GnRH receptors in the pituitary, this is because clomid is an estrogen agonist and antagonist. Nolva will make that not happen.
When you meant clomid was supressive, this is true but not in the presence of nolva.
And i dont think that happens overnight either.
With the above said I think he should take both the clomid and nolva.
Honestly I think both of his clomid and nolva are fake.
Now that is bad odds but it might just well be.
chap... I was not feeling bad at all until I heard the numbers of my bloodwork on the phone. Yesterday was a very easy day so was the day before. Less than a week ago, I was able to have sex successfully; which now blows my mind to think that I did.chap said:
Your idea to stick with the Nolvadex and do another bloodwork in a week sounds appealing to me.... as I am at loss as to what to do next. Shall I increase my dosage of the Nolvadex to 40mg if I'm going to drop the clomid?? or shall I remain at 20mg.
If I can see next week that my numbers are improving, that would be enough for me to get encouraged again and stick it out until the end.
Hopefully, just due to the fact that my body will try hard to recover on its own should yeild better numbers next week; regardless of clomid or nolva intake... Don't you guys think??
If you can find the article of the suppressive aspect of clomid, please let me know.
