My PCT Journal to kickstart HPTA post HRT

[BigAk]

While this thread is on the whole libido topic, I want to throw out some more information I've learned through my blood tests of this last PCT.
I think the whole dogma about nolva raising SHBG my be a bit over hyped. At week one of my PCT SHBG was at 30nmol/L; by the end of week 8 it had risen to the staggering height of 33nmol/L!
What is also worth noting is that at the end of my cycle, I had been using winstrol, which is also known for its ability to lower SHBG. In light of the winstrol information, one could argue that all the SHBG did was return to its normal levels during PCT. Whatever the case, I don't think that an increase in SHBG is something that needs a whole lot of consideration.

You're right... The body is in constant action trying to adjust and reach equilibrium no matter what you throw at it.... simply amazing. I think the lack of libido on Nolvadex is due to the fact that the SERM occupies receptors that are responsible for libido should they have been occupied by real estrogen.

 

[hackskii]

Many factors effect estrogen and even testosterone.

Hell, lifestyle and attitude would make a huge diffrence in hormones.

Certain things need to be in order first, Diet, Lifestyle, stress, exercise, etc.....

Sorry bro's for the rant.........Im guilty of some of those.........

 

[van-man]

You're right... The body is in constant action trying to adjust and reach equilibrium no matter what you throw at it.... simply amazing. I think the lack of libido on Nolvadex is due to the fact that the SERM occupies receptors that are responsible for libido should they have been occupied by real estrogen.

Yup. That's what I think too.


Also note worthy is that, when on cycle, I have noticed that at a certian point during the cycle where testosterone is very high but not much has been aromatized, erection sensitivity is severely diminished. Quality is there as we all know, but the lack of sensitivity can make things difficult. Coincidently, this occured during the time frame in which I had decided to introduce my HCG. The result of my first HCG injection was astounding! After taking my 250iu injection before bed, I awoke to discover that sensitivity had increased exponentially! Not only had I returned from a near complete lack of sensitivity, but I had far surpassed what I would consider normal! Almost like the early years of High School
Immediately, I suspected the HCG and its inherent estrogen stimulation. So, I purposefully witheld my second weekly dose of HCG to try and cause a return to my original state. Within 5 days I was nearly back where I was the week before so, again seven days later, I took the same dose of HCG at the same time of day; My conclusion was then, and is now, that physical sensitivity and mental desire are a direct relation to estrogen.

 

[KidCapriB]

BigAk...thats very encouraging news. So you're up to 300 and off any type of serms, or pct? If so, how long have you been off? Have your balls reversed any atrophy? My levels at the moment are very similar to yours, in the 300s, very low E2, extremely high free T % probably meaning I have low SHBG too. Let me know whats up

 

[BigAk]

BigAk...thats very encouraging news. So you're up to 300 and off any type of serms, or pct? If so, how long have you been off? Have your balls reversed any atrophy? My levels at the moment are very similar to yours, in the 300s, very low E2, extremely high free T % probably meaning I have low SHBG too. Let me know whats up

That's correct KidC... After my last intake of Nolvadex, I waited 21 days before doing bloodwork and my levels came back at 300 but my free T was at 4.6 (below range). However, I took another bloodwork 8 weeks later and my Total T remained the same, but my Free T had climbed up to 6.30. So did my bioavailable T. During that time, I was feeling great in all aspects including libido and erection... so my Free T is not high like yours... but climbing up to the normal range.

The idea now is to try to boost my Total T with Nolvadex. The only thing is that I need to be careful to not cause a quick and drastic jump like I just did two weeks ago. I embarked on 50mg/day of clomid and 40mg/day of Nolvadex. Within a few days I started having anxiety which freaked me out and caused me to make the next mistake of quiting all cold turkey. So my hormones went totally out of wack and caused me a lot of mental anguish during the last two weeks of Dec. I'm just slowly getting back to normal now after I started only 10mg/day of Nolvadex. Now, my morning wood is back. So is my erection as of last night with my wife. My appetite is back and I'm getting back to normal. Keep in mind that I have also started supplementing with 25mg of DHEA because my levels are below normal.

I think I have concluded that at my stage now, my body is hyper-sensitive to the serms. When my Total T was at 66 (my lowest point), a dose of 50mg/day of clomid along with 40mg/day of Nolvadex didn't f*ck me up but it rather helped me. Now; that I'm gaining recovery, the littlest dose of Nolvadex makes my nuts full and firing well. It's been only 5 days on Nolvadex at 10mg/day and I'm feeling good again. I'm curious as to what my Total T levels are now. Damn those blood tests.... they cost too much....

Another thing worth mentioning. I have talked to my best buddy (who's life-long natural) and brought up an excellent point. During the time I got my bloodwork results back after 11 weeks off the serms, I was feeling great in all aspects. However, once I laid my eyes on that sheet of paper that showed me not making significat improvement, things started to go down to hell then. This means that my mental state is the cause of my misery and my deterirating condition. That coupled with the fact that I've embarked on high doses of SERMs again have sent me to bottom of the hill.

My good buddy told me that I'm exaspirating my condition by thinking too f*king much about the shit... which is true... I'm constantly on the board reading about theories and recovery stories. It's making my mind tired and anxious which does not help my body to recover at all. I think hackskii brings up excellent points in his last post on here. What I need right now is concentrate on my mental state, lifestyle, diet and exercise. Keep popping those 10mg of Nolvadex and get my mind free off this issue. Have a good mental attitude and think positively. Eventually, it will all fall in place for me.

That and along with lots of prayers...

 

[wildfox]

That's correct KidC...
...
Now; that I'm gaining recovery, the littlest dose of Nolvadex makes my nuts full and firing well. It's been only 5 days on Nolvadex at 10mg/day and I'm feeling good again. I'm curious as to what my Total T levels are now. Damn those blood tests.... they cost too much....

Another thing worth mentioning. I have talked to my best buddy (who's life-long natural) and brought up an excellent point. During the time I got my bloodwork results back after 11 weeks off the serms, I was feeling great in all aspects. However, once I laid my eyes on that sheet of paper that showed me not making significat improvement, things started to go down to hell then. This means that my mental state is the cause of my misery and my deterirating condition. That coupled with the fact that I've embarked on high doses of SERMs again have sent me to bottom of the hill.

My good buddy told me that I'm exaspirating my condition by thinking too f*king much about the shit... which is true... I'm constantly on the board reading about theories and recovery stories. It's making my mind tired and anxious which does not help my body to recover at all. I think hackskii brings up excellent points in his last post on here. What I need right now is concentrate on my mental state, lifestyle, diet and exercise. Keep popping those 10mg of Nolvadex and get my mind free off this issue. Have a good mental attitude and think positively. Eventually, it will all fall in place for me.

That and along with lots of prayers...

So many brilliant points in this post, it really is one of the best I have ever read on these sorts of boards.

Thank you BigAK!

 

[Ramstein II]

The E2 libido link is fascinating. It seems that too much E2 and you have libido and ED problems and too little you have libido problems. What is the best range?

Here's some of my test results before my cycle: E2 was 17, my total T was 569, and my Free T was 8 or 11 (can't remember for sure). what do you think of these numbers? Age is early 30s.

I haven't tested post-cycle because everything is great and I don't want to have a mental issue like Big Ak did if some number is "off." I'm going to wait another month and leave well enough alone, although the curiosity is getting to me.

In hindsight, I'm starting to question whether cycling AAS is worth it at all (for me). Yes, I like the new 10lbs, but damn ,I've hated the worry all along during recovey even though it's been physically uneventful and physically I feel great. Mentally it's worrisome at times.

I would like to hear what you all think of my numbers above.

 

[hackskii]

programmer has the handle on the sweet spot on the range for estrogen.

 

[coz]

During the time I got my bloodwork results back after 11 weeks off the serms, I was feeling great in all aspects. However, once I laid my eyes on that sheet of paper that showed me not making significat improvement, things started to go down to hell then. This means that my mental state is the cause of my misery and my deterirating condition. That coupled with the fact that I've embarked on high doses of SERMs again have sent me to bottom of the hill.

I agree with you here BigAk, in my past attempt while on SERMs. I'd been feeling good - yet the blood test's showed lower levels than I expected - and my mind starts telling me, I should be feeling worse.

That's why this run - I'm not getting blood tests done every few weeks like last time, will wait until I've been feeling great & functioning correctly for a few mths.

 

[pmgamer18]

The E2 libido link is fascinating. It seems that too much E2 and you have libido and ED problems and too little you have libido problems. What is the best range?

Here's some of my test results before my cycle: E2 was 17, my total T was 569, and my Free T was 8 or 11 (can't remember for sure). what do you think of these numbers? Age is early 30s.

I haven't tested post-cycle because everything is great and I don't want to have a mental issue like Big Ak did if some number is "off." I'm going to wait another month and leave well enough alone, although the curiosity is getting to me.

In hindsight, I'm starting to question whether cycling AAS is worth it at all (for me). Yes, I like the new 10lbs, but damn ,I've hated the worry all along during recovey even though it's been physically uneventful and physically I feel great. Mentally it's worrisome at times.

I would like to hear what you all think of my numbers above.

The best range for E2 is 10 to 30 best at 20pg/ml with avg. SHBG.

 

[BigAk]

So many brilliant points in this post, it really is one of the best I have ever read on these sorts of boards.

Thank you wildfox... didn't mean to be too briliant here.... but I'm glad my input helped... We gotta stick together here and this is one of the best support group around... and I feel we've all been successful in overcoming our issues.. Now let's keep the ball rolling and put an end to this recovery deal real soon...

 

[wildfox]

Thank you wildfox... didn't mean to be too briliant here.... but I'm glad my input helped... We gotta stick together here and this is one of the best support group around... and I feel we've all been successful in overcoming our issues.. Now let's keep the ball rolling and put an end to this recovery deal real soon...

How are you doing now? Are you still under the doctor's HTPA restart program, or on your own? I'm thinking of asking him for the same. Guess it will not be the smoothest ride, but if it works, it will be worth it, right?

 

[BigAk]

Am I just wasting my time??? Shall I get back on TRT??

I hate the thought of having to go back on TRT... HELP!!!

The above quote is from exactly one day a year ago today on Aug 10th... During that time I was going through alot of caos in my life trying to recover my HPTA. I am on vacation today and decided to re-visit my old posts from last year.... I have to say that it's very interesting to look back and compare how life was during the same day last year (the tenth page of this huge thread)... It's probably worth it to do a little upate today reflecting on a post I had written a year ago. I would like to answer my own post of last year actually.

No BigAk... You are definitely not wasting your time and don't ever think about going back on TRT because you will succeed if you stick with your goal and plan.

Today... I have not gone back on TRT. I'm living my life normally and happily like I was before. Although I have not done a recent bloodwork, I can report that I have been feeling pretty well being natural for almost a year now. My weight has been consistent at 195 since last year (I'm 5' 11"). My lifts in the gym have been consistently going up back to normal (Squatted 275lb easily a few days ago; a huge come back from having trouble with 135lb). I can see my six abs still. My energy is up and my mood is good whenever I'm not bothered by my current financial issues. My appetite is good. My libido is good whenever I'm relaxed and not disturbed by life's stresses and money issues. Erection is excellent when triggered.

Up until April and May, I was having issues with getting very dizzy when squatting or deadlifting to the point of passing out. I have not experienced this for quite a long while now.

Only issue I have is mental. For some reason in the back of my head, I am dying to know what my hormones measure up on paper... However, at the same time, I am very scared to know. If you've been following my thread; at one point last year, when I thought I was doing really well, the bloodwork didn't come back like I desired/expected (TT 300). Then I had to fight back a period of bad mood that lasted a good while. Once in a while, this mental state haunts me during a sexual encounter with my wife and suddenly I perform poorly; despite the fact that I never lose an erection while I'm alone.

I have called Dr. Crisler and he was happy to hear my good news. He commented that a single blood draw is not a true indication of how I'm doing overall. That's becasue a blood draw is an indication of what the hormones are doing at that one specific time period while hormones take on a pulsing mechanism of action. One can hit a low period while the next minute could be a high period. He suggested doing a 24 hour urine panel that will indicate the true total output.

Anyway... I just thought it's a good time to give an update on things.

 

[zumper]

The above quote is from exactly one day a year ago today on Aug 10th... During that time I was going through alot of caos in my life trying to recover my HPTA. I am on vacation today and decided to re-visit my old posts from last year.... I have to say that it's very interesting to look back and compare how life was during the same day last year (the tenth page of this huge thread)... It's probably worth it to do a little upate today reflecting on a post I had written a year ago. I would like to answer my own post of last year actually.

No BigAk... You are definitely not wasting your time and don't ever think about going back on TRT because you will succeed if you stick with your goal and plan.

Today... I have not gone back on TRT. I'm living my life normally and happily like I was before. Although I have not done a recent bloodwork, I can report that I have been feeling pretty well being natural for almost a year now. My weight has been consistent at 195 since last year (I'm 5' 11"). My lifts in the gym have been consistently going up back to normal (Squatted 275lb easily a few days ago; a huge come back from having trouble with 135lb). I can see my six abs still. My energy is up and my mood is good whenever I'm not bothered by my current financial issues. My appetite is good. My libido is good whenever I'm relaxed and not disturbed by life's stresses and money issues. Erection is excellent when triggered.

Up until April and May, I was having issues with getting very dizzy when squatting or deadlifting to the point of passing out. I have not experienced this for quite a long while now.

Only issue I have is mental. For some reason in the back of my head, I am dying to know what my hormones measure up on paper... However, at the same time, I am very scared to know. If you've been following my thread; at one point last year, when I thought I was doing really well, the bloodwork didn't come back like I desired/expected (TT 300). Then I had to fight back a period of bad mood that lasted a good while. Once in a while, this mental state haunts me during a sexual encounter with my wife and suddenly I perform poorly; despite the fact that I never lose an erection while I'm alone.

I have called Dr. Crisler and he was happy to hear my good news. He commented that a single blood draw is not a true indication of how I'm doing overall. That's becasue a blood draw is an indication of what the hormones are doing at that one specific time period while hormones take on a pulsing mechanism of action. One can hit a low period while the next minute could be a high period. He suggested doing a 24 hour urine panel that will indicate the true total output.

Anyway... I just thought it's a good time to give an update on things.

Yeah ,go on with exams and good luck, though is not such a big issue.

 

[markus1]

so many ups and downs in your journal...good to hear your doing well with out TRT...anyone else tried Dr Scally's recovery plan and recovered their test levels?

 

[pmgamer18]

so many ups and downs in your journal...good to hear your doing well with out TRT...anyone else tried Dr Scally's recovery plan and recovered their test levels?

I believe it was Dr. John aka SWALE that got him back.

BigAK good to here your doing well and as for the mind games it plays on us I don't feel it every goes away so we just need to remind are selfs it just a mind game.

 

[BigAk]

BigAK this is what the forum is about help and support I owe my life to these guys that have helped me in times of despair. I asked the BIG up there to watch over you last night I hope he did, how was your night. I had a chance to talk to Dr. John and told him to take good care of you. He told me he will do his best.

Hey Phil... i knew you'd pop in to say hey... The post above is from a year ago in Aug.. I can't forget your help during those hard times.. I sure was blessed to have your support last year...

 

[novice]

What does your TT look like now BigAk? You obviously still feel pretty good without the TRT.

 

[pmgamer18]

BigAK I can't tell you how happy it makes me to know I able to help it's storys like yours that makes my time doing this worth it.

Hey Phil... i knew you'd pop in to say hey... The post above is from a year ago in Aug.. I can't forget your help during those hard times.. I sure was blessed to have your support last year...

 

[BigAk]

Just got some blood work done.. The results are below.

Aug 30, 2007

Testosterone Serum ----> 328 ----- (241-827)
Testosterone Free ------> 8.5 ------(6.8 - 21.5)

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It's interesting to see that although my Total T has not gone up much since Nov of last year, my Free Test is keeps on climbing up steadily. It seems like I'm making a very slow progress. Could it be that it's taking my body a long time to replenish all my other low hormones? I have not measured my DHEA this time, but I feel that it's going up slowly also. What do you guys see I could do at this point? Shall I do another Nolvadex cycle and supplement with DHEA along the way? My last intake of Nolvadex ended last April.

Below are results from last year:

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Oct 6, 2006(Three weeks after last intake of Nolvadex exactly)

LH ---> 4.8 --- (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH ---> 1.5 --- (1.4 - 18.1)
Testosterone serum ---> 300 --- (241 - 827) -- Major improvement from 68 pre PCT...
Testosterone free ---> 4.60 --- (8.7 - 25.1) -- Still below range
Testosterone bioavailable ---> 110 --(unknown range as I figured it with a calculator on the web)
DHEA ----> 97 --- (120 - 520)
E2 ----> 7 --- (3 - 70)

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*********************************************
Nov 29, 2006 (7.5 weeks after since Oct 6)

LH ---> 4.1 --- (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH ---> 2.0 --- (1.4 - 18.1)
Testosterone serum ---> 286 --- (241 - 827)
Testosterone free ---> 6.32 --- (8.7 - 25.1) -- Climbing up but still below range
Testosterone bioavailable ---> 142 --(unknown range as I figured it with a calculator on the web)
DHEA ----> 111 --- (120 - 520)
E2 ----> 7 --- (3 - 70)

ALT ---> 66 --- (0 - 55) -- (I've had a bad back injury that's been lingering for weeks)

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