My PCT Journal to kickstart HPTA post HRT

[hackskii]

LOL... Yeah... Doing this would be so hard and too much to handle without the awesome support I've gotten from you guys. I'm thankful for this.
I love helping.

I am going to resume the protocol as usual.. I may not drop my Clomid dosage. The next milestone to cross is getting enough LH and FSH from my pituitary. I'll have to be patient with the sides. Luckily I have not had sides visually. But, I get dull headaches after my intake of Clomid. Last Saturday, I felt sick all day I felt like crying. The emotional aspect is really hard sometimes.
Sorry!!!!!!!!!

hackskii.. Have you considered supplementing with Tribulus at all now that you're on your own? I can imagine it would be helpful in hyping up the pituitary into producing more LH.... dunno!!!

I found tribulus to be worthless, (for me anyway).
I noticed nothing.

Everything is cause and effect anyway!
If something that raised LH worked, would there not be any shutodown from somewhere else?

Don't know actually, diet and exercise is a good thing.
This will keep you young for many reasons.

 

[coz]

Thank you bigcat... I am happy that you're considering recovering yourself!! I have posted Dr. Scally in my very first post in this same thread... then hackskii just posted it again a few posts back.... But, here it is again anyway:

Recovery Protocol (Inspired by Dr. Mike Scally):
2500 iu HCG EOD for 8 shots (15 days total)
20mg of Nolvadex for 45 days
50mg of Clomid taken twice daily 12hours apart for a total of 30 days

Is great to hear that the protocol is working well for you BigAk. I will be starting this also tomorrow - having been shutdown for quite awhile, then on TRT for 1.5 yrs.

In regards to the HCG - do you guys recommend doing the whole 2500iu in one shot ? Or split them up am/pm 1250iu per shot ?

 

[BigAk]

Is great to hear that the protocol is working well for you BigAk. I will be starting this also tomorrow - having been shutdown for quite awhile, then on TRT for 1.5 yrs.

In regards to the HCG - do you guys recommend doing the whole 2500iu in one shot ? Or split them up am/pm 1250iu per shot ?

coz... I am glad that you're getting ready to restart yourself.. I recommend starting a journal like mine.. You have no idea how helpful this has been to me psychologically and emotionally.

As far as the HCG dosage... I am under the impression that Dr. Scally has suggested it before bed time. Therefore, I have the whole 2500iu's all at once..... However, if you go back and read, you'll find that I only did this for the first three shots.... Then when I noticed that I was responding well, I decided to reduce the dose in order to avoid any potential desensitization of the leydig receptors.

 

[hackskii]

It was myself that suggested shooting in the late afternoon.
I found this to work better for me for morning wood (all I had to guage), than shooting in the morning.

2500iu all in one shot, I didnt split it up, it has a fairly long half life anyway so I dont think splitting it will do much of anything.

Phil had to shoot early as shooting it late kept him awake.
So, no set way really, what ever is easier and most convient for you then experiment.

 

[coz]

It was myself that suggested shooting in the late afternoon.
I found this to work better for me for morning wood (all I had to guage), than shooting in the morning.

2500iu all in one shot, I didnt split it up, it has a fairly long half life anyway so I dont think splitting it will do much of anything.

Phil had to shoot early as shooting it late kept him awake.
So, no set way really, what ever is easier and most convient for you then experiment.

Thanks for the responses guys, Tomorrow I will try to split it in 2, mainly cause my test levels will almost have cleared (been doin prop the last few weeks, to get rid of long ester), so think it will be less estrogenic.

From the next shot - i'll try late afternoon to evening then.

 

[BigAk]

Day 16:

Second Milestone:

Well... Last night I took my final dose of HCG at 500iu's. This means from this day forward I need to rely on my own LH and FSH released with the help of the serms. I am keeping my clomid dose at 100mg for now.

This morning I woke up at 5am with an AM wood. However, I felt a bit sick as if I was hung-over or something. This feeling was presistent throughout the morning, but started to subside after a cup of coffee... I think the clomid is causing all this... Often it gives me a dull headache after a dose.

I had a bit of a pop quiz feeling today preparing for what's coming up. This feeling usually goes away througout the day. I keep praying that my LH would take care of business now.

Libido is very minimal...

I was reading an article about PCT. The author says:
"Factors that may complicate and/or delay recovery are elevated levels of estrogen and prolactin. Both of these hormones, when elevated, exert negative feedback on the HPTA. Estrogen and its side effects can be controlled by using an aromatase inhibitor such as Aromasin, Femara and Arimidex during cycles including aromatizing AAS. Prolactin and its side effects can be controlled by using an anti Prolactin such as Cabergoline (Dostinex) or Bromocriptine (Parodel) during cycles containing nandrolones. If these measures have not been addressed during the cycle, they will more than likely need to be addressed during PCT. In this scenario, the objective is to lower these hormones to acceptable levels in order to avoid the complications and/or delay in recovery. Blood work is imperative in evaluating the effectiveness of therapy. This will provide a clear and concise answer in regards to the adjustment of dosages and continuation of medication if necessary.
"

Although I have no clue about what level of prolactin I'm at, I'm thinking it probably won't hurt anything if I buy Cabergoline for the reasons below:

Dostinex increases dopamine, a brain chemical that is associated with feelings of pleasure and well being. Elevation of dopamine levels often leads to a marked increase in sex drive, improvement in mood, aleterness, learning ability and creativity. Off-label uses for these medications include sex drive enhancement and increased ejaculation volume, mood elevation, appetite suppression and fat loss.
Dostinex is also used by athletes and bodybuilders in order to lower prolactin levels resulting from drug and steroids use of Deca Durabolin (nandrolone) and Fina (trenbolone)


I have not taken Deca or Fina in the past year and half. Is EQ considered a nandrolone?

What do you guys think about adding Cabergoline to my PCT???

 

[Matt Muscle]

I would not go interfering with levels of neurotransmitters as well. If you are concerned about feeling anxious, Cabergoline may make this worse as its a Dopamine agonist. When i tried this medication it certainly elevated my feelings of anxiety.
My advice is to keep this as simple as you can, so you know what is doing what.

 

[van-man]

Interesting sounding drug... but either way I tend to think that once you get done with this treatment and everything smooths out you'll feel fine.

van

 

[BigAk]

I would not go interfering with levels of neurotransmitters as well. If you are concerned about feeling anxious, Cabergoline may make this worse as its a Dopamine agonist. When i tried this medication it certainly elevated my feelings of anxiety.
My advice is to keep this as simple as you can, so you know what is doing what.

That is a very sound advise.... I'm leaning towards it anyway!!!

 

[bigcat10]

Thank you bigcat... I am happy that you're considering recovering yourself!! I have posted Dr. Scally in my very first post in this same thread... then hackskii just posted it again a few posts back.... But, here it is again anyway:

Recovery Protocol (Inspired by Dr. Mike Scally):
2500 iu HCG EOD for 8 shots (15 days total)
20mg of Nolvadex for 45 days
50mg of Clomid taken twice daily 12hours apart for a total of 30 days

I apologize for the repitition. It just seems like 2500 iu is a lot to inject at one time. Does HCG need to be tapered, or should a person just take the same dosage all the way through? Also, is it proper to take these medications all at once, or do the different medications need to be spread throughout the day? Lastly, I've read about some tapering nolvadex. Do you plan to taper nolva? Do you plan to taper clomid? Sorry for all the questions. I hope the serms will do their job.

 

[eeso]

BigAK:

The article u quoted is not extremely relevant here. This is because he's talking about PCT for bodybuilding cycles of AAS ie. very large doses.

On TRT, we have aimed to reproduce normal male levels, so the side effects of massively high estrogen and prolactin (especially from drugs like trenbolone) aren't an issue for us (unless specifically for an individual).

If ur feeling anxies go to the pharmacy and buy some "St Johns Wort". It's over the counter, natural herb, and works. I find l-tyrosine works very well for me too(take in morning), and occasionally i'll pop a 5-htp before bed but 5-htp is not something to take all the time. All these things are freely available over the counter.

As to Bigcat10:

It is important to take the clomid and nolva whilst taking the HCG. The clomid and nolva will stop the massive estrogen raise from the HCG, and also stop desensitization of the leydig(sp?) cells from the HCG.

The combination of medicines is what makes this recovery protocal work.

As to the issue of tapering - I will definately taper when I do my recovery. I only see reasons to do it, and not many for not doing it.

 

[BigAk]

I apologize for the repitition. It just seems like 2500 iu is a lot to inject at one time. Does HCG need to be tapered, or should a person just take the same dosage all the way through? Also, is it proper to take these medications all at once, or do the different medications need to be spread throughout the day? Lastly, I've read about some tapering nolvadex. Do you plan to taper nolva? Do you plan to taper clomid? Sorry for all the questions. I hope the serms will do their job.

HCG should not really be tapered.. The reason I dropped the dosage is because I thought I was responding well to a low dose of 500iu. Therefore, there was no need for me to take 2500iu's if it means avoiding any potential risk of desensitization. But, the first 3 shots I actually did 2500iu's. Clomid dose should be divided into two with 12 hours in between. I have decided not to drop my Clomid dose until I perform my next bloodwork in a few weeks.

 

[BigAk]

BigAK:

The article u quoted is not extremely relevant here. This is because he's talking about PCT for bodybuilding cycles of AAS ie. very large doses.

On TRT, we have aimed to reproduce normal male levels, so the side effects of massively high estrogen and prolactin (especially from drugs like trenbolone) aren't an issue for us (unless specifically for an individual).

If ur feeling anxies go to the pharmacy and buy some "St Johns Wort". It's over the counter, natural herb, and works. I find l-tyrosine works very well for me too(take in morning), and occasionally i'll pop a 5-htp before bed but 5-htp is not something to take all the time. All these things are freely available over the counter.

As to Bigcat10:

It is important to take the clomid and nolva whilst taking the HCG. The clomid and nolva will stop the massive estrogen raise from the HCG, and also stop desensitization of the leydig(sp?) cells from the HCG.

The combination of medicines is what makes this recovery protocal work.

As to the issue of tapering - I will definately taper when I do my recovery. I only see reasons to do it, and not many for not doing it.

You're right eeso... I am not going to add Dostinex to the mix... I think it's better to keep things simple anyway.. I don't want to run into a situation where I have to figure out what drug is causing what issue. I may try the "St Johns Wort" and I've been thinking about adding some ZMA.

 

[BigAk]

Day 17:

Morning:
This morning I woke up energetic, but in the back of my mind many wonders remained unknown. Will the Clomid do enough to spark up my LH?? Will I crash now that I have stopped the HCG?? Will my testes respond well of the LH?? etc... Although no pop quiz feeling, I am really looking forward to realizing what's to come up in this second milestone. I pray that I won't have to face any unpleasant surprises.

Testes this morning are nice and full; just like they have been on the HCG. I think I may still have some HCG in me due to the half life. My last intake of HCG was at night on Day 15. I'm hoping not to get too fixated on the size and worry about it.

Libido is the last thing on my mind at this stage. I guess I'm more scared about the unknown than anything.

I think I'll do bloodwork in a couple of weeks to see how things are going.

 

[hackskii]

Here is a PM I got from Swale a while ago when I was discussing the use of dostinex/cabaser.

you might want to share with the other Bro that it makes no sense to take dostinex with tren, etc. inhibiting natural production has no benefit while supplementing a hormone's agonist. the body does that on its own, if necessary, and you risk lowering prolactin too much. this compromises immune function and also puts the LH receptors at risk.

HPTA-suppression from deca definitely is due to progestogenic effects there.

prog inhibits DHT, and that leaves estrogen to its feminizing features. simple as that.

This tells me two things.
Prolactin is not assoiciated with Deca.
Lowering prolactin could put your LH receptors at risk and this could hinder your recovery.
Stay the course mate.

 

[BigAk]

This tells me two things.
Prolactin is not assoiciated with Deca.
Lowering prolactin could put your LH receptors at risk and this could hinder your recovery.
Stay the course mate.

You're right hackskii... It didn't really take me long to recognize that it's best to keep things simple. I'm not going to complicate things by adding Dostinex into my PCT.

 

[hackskii]

You're right hackskii... It didn't really take me long to recognize that it's best to keep things simple. I'm not going to complicate things by adding Dostinex into my PCT.

Got a whole bottle of cabaser at home and never used but maybe one or two tabs.
Half a tab twice a week is the recommendation.

 

[bigcat10]

As to Bigcat10:

It is important to take the clomid and nolva whilst taking the HCG. The clomid and nolva will stop the massive estrogen raise from the HCG, and also stop desensitization of the leydig(sp?) cells from the HCG.

The combination of medicines is what makes this recovery protocal work.

As to the issue of tapering - I will definately taper when I do my recovery. I only see reasons to do it, and not many for not doing it.[/QUOTE]

Do you plan to taper both clomid and nolvadex? If you can, please post what the protocol would be for tapering nolvadex and clomid. Thanks.

 

[bigcat10]

HCG should not really be tapered.. The reason I dropped the dosage is because I thought I was responding well to a low dose of 500iu. Therefore, there was no need for me to take 2500iu's if it means avoiding any potential risk of desensitization. But, the first 3 shots I actually did 2500iu's. Clomid dose should be divided into two with 12 hours in between. I have decided not to drop my Clomid dose until I perform my next bloodwork in a few weeks.

Are you taking 500 iu of HCG every other night or every night? Are you taking nolvadex in the morning with your clomid? Thanks.

Guys, if this works (which I am very confident that it will), I would much rather go this route than be on HRT for life. As I understand it, this approach can only be used for those with secondary hypogonadism. I hope others are reading this thread.

 

[hackskii]

There is no reason to taper clomid, that gets stopped day 30 and for 15 more days nolva is still taken.
Now at day 45 sure taper the nolva.
Half the dose of the nolva on day 46. Every 5 days half the dose till you get to 2.5mg
This will stop any chance of estrogen rebounding.