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My PCT Journal to kickstart HPTA post HRT
- Thread starter BigAk
- Start date
Day 18:
High level anxiety this morning that I had to take Xanax for it. Not sure the reason for this anxiety. Do you guys think that my testosterone levels have dropped low enough since I had stopped the hcg on day 15???
Once I took the Xanax, I got drowsy and ended up sleeping about 3 hours. When I woke up, I was feeling better again and the anxiety is gone. My wife claims that I drive the cause of my axiety in my head worrying about this.
testes size was pretty good all day until this evening. I thought they got a bit smaller in the evening... But again, they did the same while on hcg... They are fullest in the morning.
This evening I felt alright... calm and quiet.... but kind of upset about my experience this morning. I was also tired this evening from the Xanax I think.
I don't know what to make out of all this today. It's not like I can look and read what my current test levels are at any given point. I just hope that my anxiety this morning was self-induced rather than hormonally caused.
I'm still on my course though... 100mg clomid and 20mg of Nolva per day.
I'm in dire need of some support today brothers.....
High level anxiety this morning that I had to take Xanax for it. Not sure the reason for this anxiety. Do you guys think that my testosterone levels have dropped low enough since I had stopped the hcg on day 15???
Once I took the Xanax, I got drowsy and ended up sleeping about 3 hours. When I woke up, I was feeling better again and the anxiety is gone. My wife claims that I drive the cause of my axiety in my head worrying about this.
testes size was pretty good all day until this evening. I thought they got a bit smaller in the evening... But again, they did the same while on hcg... They are fullest in the morning.
This evening I felt alright... calm and quiet.... but kind of upset about my experience this morning. I was also tired this evening from the Xanax I think.
I don't know what to make out of all this today. It's not like I can look and read what my current test levels are at any given point. I just hope that my anxiety this morning was self-induced rather than hormonally caused.
I'm still on my course though... 100mg clomid and 20mg of Nolva per day.
I'm in dire need of some support today brothers.....
theiceman13
New Member
Is it anxiety or depression? I would guess its hormonal but not necessarily low T, could be high estrogen, etc.
Hey mate, hang in there! I'll be starting my recovery very soon! Just saw my doc 2 days ago and he fully supports me, and even asked to keep a copy of Dr. Scally's article to read.
I'm very excited about doing the recovery program - doesn't worry me in the least, but I'm very practically minded.
I figure, I/you have absolutely nothing to lose with this. If it fails then you're in no worse off position than u were before u did it.
U know the program of drugs, u know what the drugs do, so let them do their thing and not worry about it!
U know what u gotta do, and ur doing it, there's nothing else u can do, so just chill : )
Focus on the positives - all i think about is being off all these medications for the rest of my life!!! I don't think about any negatives. I know how bad medically induced depression can be, but it's only for a few weeks so hang tough!!!
I really stress that u should try st. johns wort. It's not just some weak-ass natural thing - it's used to treat mild depression more and more these days. Zero side effects.
I'm very excited about doing the recovery program - doesn't worry me in the least, but I'm very practically minded.
I figure, I/you have absolutely nothing to lose with this. If it fails then you're in no worse off position than u were before u did it.
U know the program of drugs, u know what the drugs do, so let them do their thing and not worry about it!
U know what u gotta do, and ur doing it, there's nothing else u can do, so just chill : )
Focus on the positives - all i think about is being off all these medications for the rest of my life!!! I don't think about any negatives. I know how bad medically induced depression can be, but it's only for a few weeks so hang tough!!!
I really stress that u should try st. johns wort. It's not just some weak-ass natural thing - it's used to treat mild depression more and more these days. Zero side effects.
I am not sure if I will ever be able to come off TRT. Anytime I go without T, and just use HCG, I feel drained mentally and wonder how I ever got by at work without it. I havent had a shot for 9 days and didnt think I was going to make it through work today. I am secondary, used steroids, been on TRT for about one year, and used 200iu daily since my last shot. Was hoping to use clomid for awhile to see if I could recover my HPTA. Never tried clomid. Been on HCG throughout TRT. You guys having any issues at work coming off your test? Another thing is, I wouldnt even consider coming off TRT provided I had good sexual func. But since starting it, my func has been worse and is really the reason behind my desire to quit. This happen to anyone else?
eeso... Thank you brother for your support and encouragement.. I can't imagine going through this without the support of all the awesome guys on here.eeso said:
Yeah.... You make good points. The drugs should do their job. Worrying about it won't help things at all. I can't wait to get back to normal and leave all needles behind.
I have bought St. John's Wort and have just started using it yesterday. I'm hoping it will help.
Again... I appreciate your help eeso.... Let's keep going strong with this!!!!!
theiceman13
New Member
BigAk said:
I would say its a good sign its not depression, it could be that your hormones are not balanced which also may explain why your sex drive is still not there because your test levels from your last blood test when you were on hcg were alright. Maybe on your next blood test you should get all your hormones tested along with testosterone to see if everything is balanced, it seems like that piece of the puzzle is just as important as your total and free test levels.
I thought those anti-depression drugs lowered testosterone levels.
I know alcohol drives up estrogen.
Some other things that will be helpfull would be to use zinc and magnesium at night just before bed.
Zinc is a natural aromatase inhibitor.
Also 5HTP is a natural supplement and kind of the dirrivitive of L-Triptophan and also some Valarian root is awesome for depression and I believe both of those will not lower testosterone and are more of the natural way of doing things.
The 5-HTP raises saratonin levels and is a mood modifier but totally natural.
Look around and do some google searches on it.
Good luck bro, you will be alright, do some searches on that stuff.
I know alcohol drives up estrogen.
Some other things that will be helpfull would be to use zinc and magnesium at night just before bed.
Zinc is a natural aromatase inhibitor.
Also 5HTP is a natural supplement and kind of the dirrivitive of L-Triptophan and also some Valarian root is awesome for depression and I believe both of those will not lower testosterone and are more of the natural way of doing things.
The 5-HTP raises saratonin levels and is a mood modifier but totally natural.
Look around and do some google searches on it.
Good luck bro, you will be alright, do some searches on that stuff.
Hey Hackskii... Thank you for checking on my bro... I don't ever take depression medication. That Xanax was my first and it did the job and knocked me out. I am going to stay away from these types of meds since they have negative impact on the main the goal I'm trying to achieve. In the mean time, I have started taking St. Johns Wort and will be buying ZMA tomorrow.
Today has been alot better day than yesterday by far...
Today has been alot better day than yesterday by far...
Day 19:
Today has taken an opposite turn from yesterday. No anxiety and no pop quiz feelings. However, I was very emotional this morning.. My poor wife.. I know she's putting up with alot ... I could not go through this without her in my life. Today I have felt calm and content with no issues. Took my clomid and nolvadex and hoped for the best. I had a good day with my family.... played soccer with my boy and hung out and had a good time. Today's been a sunny day in my world.. thank God...
Thinking more about yesterday's experience and hearing you guys, it's very possible that stopping the hcg has caused a big imbalance in the ratio of my test and estrogen. My body is re-adjusting. This theory makes perfect sense to me..
My libido today is still non-existence... but; that's very expected since my hormons have not yet reached a good balance... It's a matter of time I think.
Testes size has been the same ... Which leads me to believe that they're busy doing their job. It would be very interesting to do bloodwork to measure my LH along my testosterone.
I have a question. Does the Clomid and the Nolvadex prompt the pituitary to release LH regardless of my test levels at any given moment ?? or does it just prompt the pituitary to be sensitive and active once low levels of test detected (feedback machanism)??? I would love to know the right answer to this question.
My energy has been up all day and actually felt alright..
Today has taken an opposite turn from yesterday. No anxiety and no pop quiz feelings. However, I was very emotional this morning.. My poor wife.. I know she's putting up with alot ... I could not go through this without her in my life. Today I have felt calm and content with no issues. Took my clomid and nolvadex and hoped for the best. I had a good day with my family.... played soccer with my boy and hung out and had a good time. Today's been a sunny day in my world.. thank God...
Thinking more about yesterday's experience and hearing you guys, it's very possible that stopping the hcg has caused a big imbalance in the ratio of my test and estrogen. My body is re-adjusting. This theory makes perfect sense to me..
My libido today is still non-existence... but; that's very expected since my hormons have not yet reached a good balance... It's a matter of time I think.
Testes size has been the same ... Which leads me to believe that they're busy doing their job. It would be very interesting to do bloodwork to measure my LH along my testosterone.
I have a question. Does the Clomid and the Nolvadex prompt the pituitary to release LH regardless of my test levels at any given moment ?? or does it just prompt the pituitary to be sensitive and active once low levels of test detected (feedback machanism)??? I would love to know the right answer to this question.
My energy has been up all day and actually felt alright..
keninottawa
New Member
It sounds as though your system is slowly churning back on-line. I wouldn't be worried about your libido; from my experience it is the most variable of indicators and is generally the last thing to be resolved (especially considering all the mental strain you're going through right now).
I'm trying to get my HPTA back in-line again and you're an inspiration. Good luck!
I'm trying to get my HPTA back in-line again and you're an inspiration. Good luck!
Thank you keninottawa..... I am very glad if my journal is inspiring anyone to restart their hpta.keninottawa said:
Yeah.... It's been an emotional roller coaster for me.... But, I am praying that at the end I'll get back to normal like I used to be.
The crazy thing about this PCT restart "business" is that one can't see their hormones.... so there's nothing to work as a motivator along the way. If it was a cut or a wound, you can see if it's improving and recovering. These darn hormones are totally hidden. It's like shooting in the dark.
I wish you the best in your recovery also brother.
Now you know why it is so hard for women during menopause. The very mention of hormones to my GF and she goes ballistic.
They cant see, feel, sense them either but one day ok next psycho. That is the funny thing about hormones.
Another example, I used to do a propionate shot before my girlfriend visited me on the weekends a couple of times a month (she visited).
Id take a prop shot and I was a mad man sexually just 5 hours later. It was something else and she even knew when I did it.
OK, once the HCG and all your test shots are out of your system, LH actually comes back fairly quickly with the us of clomid and nolva, sure there might be a dip after a few days after your last HCG shot as your natural levles of testosterone will be low, along with low LH.
While the pituitary is comming online there probably will be a lul there.
Not only that but clomid and probably nolva are agonists and antoagonists of estrogen.
So, there can be all kinds of things going on that might be making you feel kind of wierd.
Clomid for some makes them feel really sensitive and almost feminine, whereas others have no problems with it.
Some get the vision problems and some dont.
This is going to be very individule and remember there is alot going on right now.
Just trust that things are doing what they are supposed to be doing and when it is all said and done and you are off the SERM's this is the time to see the big picture.
And even then the body is going to take time to settle in and find homeostasis.
Every day should be better and better.
They cant see, feel, sense them either but one day ok next psycho. That is the funny thing about hormones.
Another example, I used to do a propionate shot before my girlfriend visited me on the weekends a couple of times a month (she visited).
Id take a prop shot and I was a mad man sexually just 5 hours later. It was something else and she even knew when I did it.
OK, once the HCG and all your test shots are out of your system, LH actually comes back fairly quickly with the us of clomid and nolva, sure there might be a dip after a few days after your last HCG shot as your natural levles of testosterone will be low, along with low LH.
While the pituitary is comming online there probably will be a lul there.
Not only that but clomid and probably nolva are agonists and antoagonists of estrogen.
So, there can be all kinds of things going on that might be making you feel kind of wierd.
Clomid for some makes them feel really sensitive and almost feminine, whereas others have no problems with it.
Some get the vision problems and some dont.
This is going to be very individule and remember there is alot going on right now.
Just trust that things are doing what they are supposed to be doing and when it is all said and done and you are off the SERM's this is the time to see the big picture.
And even then the body is going to take time to settle in and find homeostasis.
Every day should be better and better.
hackskii and the rest of the guys....
Do you guys think it may be that I have very low estrogen and maybe causing me to feel terrible?? Or do you think I have high estrogen?? I have Arminidex on hand, shall I venture and throw in the mix??
I don't what the fuk is going on... Feeling shitty again today... I even contemplated going back on HCG shots thinking maybe my test is too low...
HELP!!!!
Do you guys think it may be that I have very low estrogen and maybe causing me to feel terrible?? Or do you think I have high estrogen?? I have Arminidex on hand, shall I venture and throw in the mix??
I don't what the fuk is going on... Feeling shitty again today... I even contemplated going back on HCG shots thinking maybe my test is too low...
HELP!!!!
Dont hit the HCG, that will not aid in the recovery of the hypothalamus and pituitary glands.
If you feel like you are a bit high in estrogen then take 50mg of zinc before you go to bed.
Beef liver tablets are considered a natural aromatase inhibitor too.
I just think you are low right now while the pituitary is trying to come online.
I don't think you should change anything.
If you feel like you are a bit high in estrogen then take 50mg of zinc before you go to bed.
Beef liver tablets are considered a natural aromatase inhibitor too.
I just think you are low right now while the pituitary is trying to come online.
I don't think you should change anything.
theiceman13
New Member
It would be impossible to guess which of your hormones may be high or low right now. I would definetly not touch the arimidex without a blood test to confirm high estrogen. I would continue with your protocol and when it is done get complete blood tests to see where you stand. Worst case scenario maybe you may need to run it one more time or maybe just another run of clomid/nolva, I have read of many guys who needed 2+ PCTs after long stretches to fully recover.
BigAk said:
Day 20:
Probably one of the worst days I've had so far on this PCT... First, had a horrible night sleeping... then woke up and headed to work. This week, I'm taking a class at work that requires alot of mental effort. I don't even know how I lasted through today's class... I had anxious feelings all day today as if there's something wrong but can't put my hand on it... to fix it.
Towards the evening (now), I felt extremely exhausted. . almost fell asleep at the wheels on the way home... Then at the house, I just walk around restless not knowing what to do. My wife just gave me an Ambien to help me sleep. It knocks me out, I may skip my next dose of Clomid.
Also.... My appetite is gone... Altough I'm hungry, I am too freaking nervious to eat... I am losing weight...
Do you guys think things would start coming back up for me???
I am going to do bloodwork on Thursday that measures test, LH, FSH, and prolactin.
Probably one of the worst days I've had so far on this PCT... First, had a horrible night sleeping... then woke up and headed to work. This week, I'm taking a class at work that requires alot of mental effort. I don't even know how I lasted through today's class... I had anxious feelings all day today as if there's something wrong but can't put my hand on it... to fix it.
Towards the evening (now), I felt extremely exhausted. . almost fell asleep at the wheels on the way home... Then at the house, I just walk around restless not knowing what to do. My wife just gave me an Ambien to help me sleep. It knocks me out, I may skip my next dose of Clomid.
Also.... My appetite is gone... Altough I'm hungry, I am too freaking nervious to eat... I am losing weight...
Do you guys think things would start coming back up for me???
I am going to do bloodwork on Thursday that measures test, LH, FSH, and prolactin.
Hey mate I'm starting my PCT today.
1st of August and everything. Probably won't keep a log as I don't really wanna analyse myself constantly - just gonna ride it out.
I'm excited to start. A little bit anxious last couple of days about other issues, but keen to get through this thing. Hoping clomid doesn't make me too depressed.
Doc is fully supporting me, i can get blood tests whenever I want.
Will let u know how i go : )
1st of August and everything. Probably won't keep a log as I don't really wanna analyse myself constantly - just gonna ride it out.
I'm excited to start. A little bit anxious last couple of days about other issues, but keen to get through this thing. Hoping clomid doesn't make me too depressed.
Doc is fully supporting me, i can get blood tests whenever I want.
Will let u know how i go : )
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