The main thing most of ya’s here are not even mentioning is the insulin.. sure gh doesn’t do a whole ton for building mass in it self thought it may aid recovery and other factors, but in my opinion the lack of “desired results” is because most are not utilizing it properly. If ones goal is packing on mass gains. Insulin+GH+ a typical (or non typical-bulking) cycle is going to yield much better results than just gh and your bulking cycle, assuming you have an idea of what you’re doing, and how to do it right.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Not to mention that most of the people here do useless blood test.... Igf1 really?
Do you think that's even possible to measure it accurately?
Igf1 levels depends by how many carbs you, personal response, when you inject the HGH, not mention that Igf1 means nothing... You want high bp3 levels, not Just systemic IGF...
Moreover we grow from HGH + Insulin not just HGH.... You need the insulin like binding proteins in the liver to have the magical effect of the two.
Do you think that's even possible to measure it accurately?
Igf1 levels depends by how many carbs you, personal response, when you inject the HGH, not mention that Igf1 means nothing... You want high bp3 levels, not Just systemic IGF...
Moreover we grow from HGH + Insulin not just HGH.... You need the insulin like binding proteins in the liver to have the magical effect of the two.
AlwaysHungry
Well-known Member
I respond like crazy to gh and peps that was a game changer for me.
I can see fullness almost from day 1 , but that's just me.
GH is a longer approach. It creates new muscle cells over time , it makes aas to work better on lower dosages. (And all other benefits we know about it)
@Roco Bama to not see good results running this dosages for a year.
-Must have been bunk gh
- your aas stack way off (hormones out of whack)
-your eating habits must be very bad
-bunk anabolic
-high BG
Either one or more of those reasons.
Anyway GH still worked for you but you haven't notice. The cells it creates you mature them now with aas protein and training.
If you didn't run GH for a year your gains next year would be smaller.
GH gives you the potential to build bigger leaner physique over time.
I can see fullness almost from day 1 , but that's just me.
GH is a longer approach. It creates new muscle cells over time , it makes aas to work better on lower dosages. (And all other benefits we know about it)
@Roco Bama to not see good results running this dosages for a year.
-Must have been bunk gh
- your aas stack way off (hormones out of whack)
-your eating habits must be very bad
-bunk anabolic
-high BG
Either one or more of those reasons.
Anyway GH still worked for you but you haven't notice. The cells it creates you mature them now with aas protein and training.
If you didn't run GH for a year your gains next year would be smaller.
GH gives you the potential to build bigger leaner physique over time.
D
Deleted member 123722
Guest
How would we know which gains are from hyperplasia or hypertrophy, especially when GH increases LBM via intermuscular water retention? I literally just read that GH doesn't cause any hyperplasia whatsoever, but insulin may actually be the one that does. Either way, we know for a fact GH is not anabolic; it is IGF-1, which ten turns into MGF within the cell. The Real 101 Guide To Insulin And Bodybuilding. Doses, Hyperplasia, Timing. - TAEIAN
AlwaysHungry
Well-known Member
How do we know if we have hyperplasia?
When you stall and can't add anymore size weights despite the food despite the AAS stack.
Then suddenly you include GH you gain 2-3kg and you're full at the start you say WOW this thing work I added 2kg and fullness.
But that's it end you won't gain anymore.
And in the end of the cycle you come to conclusion that GH it isn't so good for overall size and mass.
Then some cycle later you break your previous weights and limits. And you think you're new diet did that or this new trestolone acetate.
When in reality it's the growth hormone you run last year. Those new cells hyperrophied by the anabolics and your diet.
But if GH wasn't in the stack last year. You would be the same.
D
Deleted member 123722
Guest
I get the logic, and it makes sense, but this also assumes that one is maxed out on genetic potential, which is why for someone like myself, there isn't a real reason since I'm not there yet and I'm not a pro who is, and must take it to go beyond.
the look you create on gh, when used long time is still on another lvl especially when used with insulin. It s also a question of health. You get away with a lot less of AAS use when implementing gh and maybe insulin. If this is more healthy is another question noone can answer. Up to you
I think gh is something which is not only for open bodybuilders. Someone like Ian Valliere is probably using insane amounts of lantus and short acting insulin around training + high doses of gh. This whatsoever should only used when you are in this weightcategory.
Keep in mind these are only my thought. I am not that experienced then other guys in this forum
Serious question.
Did you notice loosening of your teeth, maybe, some expansion in your mouth in any capacity at 8ius?
How about anything else: feet, nose, jaw line?
I too use the same amount of sustanon and 3ius of gh and was thinking of maybe upping the gh. I have no desire to be competitive.
Thanks
This is my experience as well on lower doses: 3-4 ius daily - my max was 6 for one month. Over the course now of almost one year, the only leanness//fat loss I acquire is directly from cardio. When I stop the cardio, everything else remaining equal, I get fat again. I haven't seen any benefit in the fat loss area from gh.
D
Deleted member 123722
Guest
GH doesn't actually burn fat, but it helps mobilize it to be burned, and apparently can reduce the amount of new fat cells from being created/stored
T&H
Well-known Member
Figured I'd throw in my experience. I used hgh, mainly tested Optis, on and off a year and a half at 4 to 8 iu a day. I absolutely can't justify the results for the price. I actually saw very little results, even at high doses.
I would take time off between cycles, and look for changes after restarting. No better sleep, recovery, skin, etc. I did notice way more full looking muscles. I personally think it grew my existing gynecomastia at high dose for a while, but I can't prove that. My estrogen has always been in check and hgh was the only other thing added.
Maybe my body just tolerates hgh well, and I need high doses. I was using 8iu with no side effects, reading around that's not normal.
I would take time off between cycles, and look for changes after restarting. No better sleep, recovery, skin, etc. I did notice way more full looking muscles. I personally think it grew my existing gynecomastia at high dose for a while, but I can't prove that. My estrogen has always been in check and hgh was the only other thing added.
Maybe my body just tolerates hgh well, and I need high doses. I was using 8iu with no side effects, reading around that's not normal.
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daron_e
New Member
No side effects ever apart from mild water bloat in the beginning. I will say my feet were 10.5 in high school and they are 12 now. I am tall though so who knows.
ive made my share fair of experience with hgh. Different dosages, almost all brands available on the market (and unfortunately also with very cheap high dimer chinese generics which fucked me up)
in my opinion, 2-3,5iu daily are worth the cost/results factor. Increased muscle fullness, increased recovery, better off-seasons because you aint gonna get as fat as without and better prep because lipolysis is increased.
These factors alone result in more hypertrophy imo.
higher quality hgh comes with less sides. Best are the pharma ones (i loved the real jins, humatrope because 2iu was plenty), genotropin makes you seem drier due to added mild diuretic effects of mannitol etc.
Optis and meditrope are also almost as good.
the worse quality the hgh the worse were side effects for me such as water retention (not talking muscle fullness here, talking bloat, edema etc.)
everything above 3,5iu is imo not necessary unless taken as a peri-workout regime with higher dosages of insulin and the necessary nutrition protocol.
many advanced guys take a ratio of 1:2 hgh:insulin pre workout which is okayish with 2:4 iu but here the higher dosages really do some work. 8:16 or 10:20 is not unheard off.. but the sides also increase, no matter how good the HGH is. It is a battle against bloat, CTS, ...
in my opinion, 2-3,5iu daily are worth the cost/results factor. Increased muscle fullness, increased recovery, better off-seasons because you aint gonna get as fat as without and better prep because lipolysis is increased.
These factors alone result in more hypertrophy imo.
higher quality hgh comes with less sides. Best are the pharma ones (i loved the real jins, humatrope because 2iu was plenty), genotropin makes you seem drier due to added mild diuretic effects of mannitol etc.
Optis and meditrope are also almost as good.
the worse quality the hgh the worse were side effects for me such as water retention (not talking muscle fullness here, talking bloat, edema etc.)
everything above 3,5iu is imo not necessary unless taken as a peri-workout regime with higher dosages of insulin and the necessary nutrition protocol.
many advanced guys take a ratio of 1:2 hgh:insulin pre workout which is okayish with 2:4 iu but here the higher dosages really do some work. 8:16 or 10:20 is not unheard off.. but the sides also increase, no matter how good the HGH is. It is a battle against bloat, CTS, ...
Megadick3000
Well-known Member
Have you any idea of the duration of the anti-lipogenic window post administration of exogenous HGH?
How long after injecting GH, sub-q, do you believe the effects on lipogenesis last for id love to know. Are we talking an hour or two, are we talking days after a single injection?
Ive read a fairbit about GH but the biggest thing i never see talked about are the durations of its various effects. Understanding that would be key to forming ideal goal-oriented administration protocols.
Actually Ian valliere is coached by PTour and he doesn't like insulin much. Being and few of his seminaries, he despise insulin and the physique that you achieve with it.
Not everyone is using insulin, and GH if you can afford it is a great addition to any stack, just 3-4IU is more then enough to help on many aspects that are great
Not everyone is using insulin, and GH if you can afford it is a great addition to any stack, just 3-4IU is more then enough to help on many aspects that are great
I’m dealing with this issue right now. 5iu nordi 150 test 100 mast 100 tren a week and my gyno is increasing. I’ve ran multiples of this dose of gear for years and never had gyno issues. Not sure how to combat this one
T&H
Well-known Member
I fully believe hgh increased mine as well running high dose. I don't know the mechanism hgh increases the existing gland, but 20mg nolva is worth a try along with eliminating the hgh till symptoms subside.
I was reading it increase prolactin as well ? Should I try caber too? 2 weeks at 5iu working up over the last 2 months im 2 weeks it grew to width of a quarter but flat
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