New MESO-Rx member ranking system

[Millard]

Some imminent changes in phase two involve: forfeiting participation in the ranking system for anyone who signs up for the forum with the express purpose of extracting money from MESO members; restricting vendor ability to like/dislike positive/negative reviews

A quick update on this: I've started removing vendors from participation in the ranking system.

Given the goals and purposes of this website, it should not be possible for members to be outranked by vendors as a general rule.

Vendors have been stripped of all variations of the "member" title. This has been replaced with a generic (and hopefully relatively neutral) title "subscriber"

If you do not see "subscriber" underneather a vendor username, please report.

 

[Salt&Vinegar]

Was looking to leave a review/update for a vendor I purchased off of, however I don't have the right priveldges. Do I need to contribute more to the site/hit a certain rank?

 

[B Ware]

Was looking to leave a review/update for a vendor I purchased off of, however I don't have the right priveldges. Do I need to contribute more to the site/hit a certain rank?

You need to go to the new member introduction section and properly introduce yourself.

Also, contribute to the board/community anyway you can. Even if it’s just asking questions as someone else can benefit from that. FYI anything posted in a source’s thread or the underground is not considered contributing to the community.

 

[Millard]

Was looking to leave a review/update for a vendor I purchased off of, however I don't have the right priveldges. Do I need to contribute more to the site/hit a certain rank?

In short, yes. Please take some time to introduce yourself and get to know the community. Its unique and different from other similar steroid-related forums. We can help you better navigate the website if you give us a chance.

Here are some of my random thoughts posted in other threads about why we felt it was necessary to institute minimum requirements for new members. Hopefully, you (and other new members) find this helpful:

I thought I would also post it in your intro thread for easy reference:

"There are 24 subforums where new members can post without restriction.

There is only 1 subforum that requires new members to spend some time learning about the community, sharing experiences, interacting with members, and learning the proper way to navigate the forum resources."

We want to encourage all new members to get to know the community and understand how to navigate this forum before granting privileges to the Steroid Underground subforum.

This is because MESO has a very different approach from other websites. It is not a source forum with the goal of promoting and connecting sources with customers.

MESO's objective is to evaluate the risks associated with the underground and teach members how to minimize and reduce the associated risks. Towards this objective, we strive to hold each and every source accountable while promoting harm reduction on both sides of the transaction.

This is not a stupid question at all. MESO has recently increased the requirements necessary for new members to have unrestricted access to the Steroid Underground subforum.

These restrictions have been implemented for two primarily reasons:

(1) New members who sign up to immediately promote and praise a particular source.

(2) New members who sign up to immediately ask to be given the names of the "best sources".

We want to discourage these tendencies because they show a general lack of forum etiquette at best. At worst, they come across as rude, offensive, and disrespectful to a community that has spent considerable time and effort to hold all sources accountable and to minimize risks associated with any interactions with such sources.

There is a proper time and place for such questions. But maybe those questions should come from members who've spent more than a minute on MESO.

This is why:

The MESO-Rx Forum has about 25 subforums devoted to various aspects of AAS use, hGH/peptides, PCT, steroid-related legal issues, men's health, HRT, training, nutrition, etc.

The MESO-Rx community has 10s of 1000s of years in collective experience in the bodybuilding/sports/PED subcultures. You have recreational, amateur, and professional athletes. You have members from all walks of life, geographic locations, professions. There are even doctors, lawyers, academics, and healthcare professionals that can help the rest of us bridge the gap between science and practice. In sum, this place is a goldmine of information and experience.

24 of these subforums are all open and accessible without any restriction to all members, including new members.

There is only 1 subforum that has minimal requirements before new members are allowed to fully participate with posting privileges. However, all members are still free to read the posts in this subforum.

If new members can't find anything to avail themselves outside of this one forum to meet these basic requirements, then maybe they should reconsider their involvement with AAS.

Conducting and sharing the lab test results from product analysis is one of the best things that can be done to help the community. The value of such contributions is extremely high.

Posting source reviews (both good and bad) can benefit the community as well. But in most instances, at least with positive source reviews, the benefit is much less. The value is simply limited.

I'm sure most people post positive reviews with the intent of helping the community at large.

However, for many, the posting of positive reviews is done at the behest of sources offering store discounts/credits and/or free product. The primary beneficiaries of such an arrangement are the two parties on either side of the transaction.

The incentivization of positive reviews is a standard business practice in all arenas of ecommerce. The business gets positive publicity (and potentially a lot more sales) and the customer gets free stuff. It's a win-win situation -- for those two parties.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with such business-initiated incentives. Nor is there is anything necessarily wrong with the resulting reviews if they are honest -- but they are a little less honest when you consider that most such reviewers fail to disclose the compensation they received.

This is one unfortunate way that sources can manipulate opinion.

That aside, I still think it is a good thing the sources are sending customers to MESO. It gives customers an opportunity to see what a forum devoted to holding sources accountable looks like.

This means they will see all the good/bad, strength/weaknesses, positive/negatives of their source with the potential to minimize any potential harm involved when interacting with this and/or other sources in the future.

 

[T&H]

It will be more challenging for vendors to gain full access to forum privileges than other members of the community. Vendors are seeking to tap the targeted demographic that comprises MESO to sell products.

This is not necessarily in line with the objectives of harm reduction that most of us care most about.

MESO that we can encourage vendors on the other side of the transaction to strongly consider and pursue additional measures to minimize harm experienced by consumers.

Probably the absolute most important thing they can do is rigorous and thorough lab testing of all of their products.

Perhaps new vendors should submit numerous lab test results from analyses of the products they sell to indicate their commitment to harm reduction as a prerequisite for additional forum privileges?

I'm not aware of the privileges they lost, other than the ability to like posts in the underground. What else have they lost?

I agree about the lab testing and importance. But where is the line for the number of lab tests required, all products for sale, 25% of their product line? Then what testing companies are approved by you to accept other than Jano?

I like the logic, but I think the members here vet new sources quite well in regards to testing. Many of the top sellers here do frequent testing so most know the importance of it and question sources without it.

 

[MindlessWork]

Should there also be a post count limit to even view the underground? Perhaps something like 50 good posts to post in there and maybe just 10 to just view the section for example.

 

[T&H]

Should there also be a post count limit to even view the underground? Perhaps something like 50 good posts to post in there and maybe just 10 to just view the section for example.

That's how PM is. I think that will encourage new members to spam threads with useless posts just to gain access. Plus this will probably reduce site traffic significantly.

 

[MindlessWork]

That's how PM is. I think that will encourage new members to spam threads with useless posts just to gain access. Plus this will probably reduce site traffic significantly.

Guess that's the tradeoff for something like this...sigh.

 

[B Ware]

My only complaint so far, I can’t edit or share a pic in a private message anymore. No biggie but twice now I was going to edit or share a pic and couldn’t. I do like the idea that what’s said in private is there for ever but it would also be great if we had the few minute window to edit in PMs like we do on the forum.

 

[Millard]

I'm not aware of the privileges they lost, other than the ability to like posts in the underground. What else have they lost?

I agree about the lab testing and importance. But where is the line for the number of lab tests required, all products for sale, 25% of their product line? Then what testing companies are approved by you to accept other than Jano?

I like the logic, but I think the members here vet new sources quite well in regards to testing. Many of the top sellers here do frequent testing so most know the importance of it and question sources without it.

New wannabe sources have not lost privileges because they never had them to begin with.

I'm not aware of any old sources losing privileges (although I guess it's technically possible).

I wouldn't want to make any future lab test posting requirement as the basis of any type of official endorsement/approval. It would be merely a minimal requirement to entry to show at least some commitment to harm reduction that could be a starting point for improvement.

What about acceptable testing companies? That is a good question. Some have a much longer track record like Jano, Simec, and Chemtox. Some are new. Others have come and gone. I'd like to see more cross-verification of all of them especially newer and/or less frequently used ones.

 

[Millard]

My only complaint so far, I can’t edit or share a pic in a private message anymore. No biggie but twice now I was going to edit or share a pic and couldn’t. I do like the idea that what’s said in private is there for ever but it would also be great if we had the few minute window to edit in PMs like we do on the forum.

This is an unintended consequence of changing restrictions for new members. It will be fixed. Just please report them to me as you notice them.

 

[Millard]

Here's a cross-post explaining why New Members have restricted forum privileges. And what they need to do to unlock full access to everything the forum offers:

It's eventually unlocked... for members who show a genuine desire to learn from, contribute to, and help the community.

There have been too many new members who sign up to immediately do one or more of the following behaviors as their first action on the forum:

(1) post praise and recommendations for a particular source and/or defend that particular source;
(2) send a private message to a particular source;
(3) send a private message to another member(s) asking to be given the name of a trusted source;
(4) post message asking someone to contact them with a trusted source

In the first example, such actions look suspiciously like that of a shill.

In the latter 3 examples, the behaviors could put new members at risk of being scammed. The vulnerability of being scammed is increased when it is done in private outside any public accountability.

Consequently, I think these behaviors should be discouraged to further the integrity and safety of the forum for all participants.

Restricting forum privileges encourages new members to participate in the forum, learn how to navigate the forum, and understand the risks associated with interactions with sources.

It also discourages sources/shills from attempting to deceptively manipulate the forum with questionable reviews and shills.

 

[dragonlaboficial]

I believe the new system should work as expected, but other criteria would need to be adopted, not just in post volumes.
I believe they could take into account old users not losing for privileges to post in the underground.
With this new change, I have a "newbie" profile here on the forum, I can't post feedback related to a Chinese source here, and that, I believe, is a way of not building with the community.

 

[T&H]

I believe the new system should work as expected, but other criteria would need to be adopted, not just in post volumes.
I believe they could take into account old users not losing for privileges to post in the underground.
With this new change, I have a "newbie" profile here on the forum, I can't post feedback related to a Chinese source here, and that, I believe, is a way of not building with the community.

You've been given the title of Subscriber, which is assigned to Sources. And if you're too new to post feedback, then get involved elsewhere on the forum instead of focusing on the underground and whatever feedback is important to you.

 

[chaseme1988]

I'm still fine-tuning some aspects in the implementation of a second phase.

The first phase was primarily aimed at incentivizing helpful, useful, informative, supportive, and/or inspirational (and perhaps disincentivizing less positive behaviors).

The second phase is aimed at minimizing source influence/manipulation in the ranking system, and disincentivizing new member behavior that can be interpreted as loyalty to sources at the expense of loyalty to the harm reduction community.

Some imminent changes in phase two involve: forfeiting participation in the ranking system for anyone who signs up for the forum with the express purpose of extracting money from MESO members; restricting vendor ability to like/dislike positive/negative reviews; and similarly restricting new member ability to like/dislike vendor posts or any other posts in specific subforums; etc.

It's still an open comment period for anyone who wants.

It looks like an algorithm may lower my score based off some of my recent posts, but I don't think voicing my opinion and encouraging discourse on the topic of trusting a sources testing should be viewed as anti-harm reduction.

But oh well, overall I think the new system is good.

 

[Titan Labs]

Hi @Millard

Not sure if this has been covered yet, had a quick read but could not see anything concrete, so apologises if i missed it.

I’ve had a number of customers contact me over the past few days wanting to post blood results/blind lab tests.

Coincidently they are all new members of the forum and cannot post in the underground, however they are not keen on making the effort to meet the minimum requirement to be able to post in the underground.

Now i can post these results up and share them with the community but it kind of goes against my thought process of ‘harm reduction’ as the whole point of the blind testing is for the customers to complete this in turn keeping the source accountable.

Just something that has cropped up this week….

Cheers,

 

[Millard]

I’ve had a number of customers contact me over the past few days wanting to post blood results/blind lab tests.

There's a subforum specifically for blood results and product lab test results and EVERYONE can post in it. It is called the "Steroid Lab Testing" subforum. (It's probably almost always the most appropriate subforum for members to post these types of contributions anyway):

Analytical Lab Testing

Discuss various types of anayltical reports used to determine quality and safety of steroid products e.g. MS/Labmax/blood serum/etc.

thinksteroids.com

Of course, the subforum is only to share lab work and analytical test. Promoting sources and/or discussing buying/selling is prohibited.

As an FYI, new members are strongly encouraged to post analytical lab test results that they've personally ordered. These type of contributions towards community harm reduction really help unlock access to more forum privileges.

 

[Titan Labs]

There's a subforum specifically for blood results and product lab test results and EVERYONE can post in it. It is called the "Steroid Lab Testing" subforum. (It's probably almost always the most appropriate subforum for members to post these types of contributions anyway):

Analytical Lab Testing

Discuss various types of anayltical reports used to determine quality and safety of steroid products e.g. MS/Labmax/blood serum/etc.

thinksteroids.com

Of course, the subforum is only to share lab work and analytical test. Promoting sources and/or discussing buying/selling is prohibited.

I should have known that part of the forum would have been accessible to everyone, totally slipped my mind.

Thanks,

 

[Rido]

I guess I was under the impression we are going to try to push people to create an introduction thread or an appropriate one at that. Trying to change the culture for the better?

 

[MindlessWork]

I guess I was under the impression we are going to try to push people to create an introduction thread or an appropriate one at that. Trying to change the culture for the better?

To me that's a good idea for new members to post up an intro before they can have posting and PM privileges, This way it will cut down on the shills and those who only use the PM system for solicitation without posting. In the end it should be a better experience as a whole for the board.