Nolvadex on cycle?

[only me]

Guys,

I have hired a coach that is an IFBB pro, after a work related injury in which I serverd the nerves in my hand I stayed on TRT 150mg pw and 250iu HCG 3 x pw.

This new coach has decided to increase my test e dose but also wants me to take Nolvadex 20mg per day and stop the HCG, claiming the Nolvadex will help my body produce its own LH.

I'm reluctant to do this as it goes against everything I've read, could I have members thoughts on this?

 

[BigTomJ]

there is zero reason to take a serm while on cycle or trt except to block estrogen at the receptor site to prevent gyno.

you dont want to be taking a serm long term indefinitely.

Remember, being an IFBB pro doesn't qualify them to be a knowledgeable coach

 

[PaintDrinker]

I’m sorry but your coach seems to be incompetent. Serms are entirely useless when exogenous testosterone is in one’s system. Your HPTA is shut down.

 

[farbeyonddriven]

there is zero reason to take a serm while on cycle or trt except to block estrogen at the receptor site to prevent gyno.

you dont want to be taking a serm long term indefinitely.

Remember, being an IFBB pro doesn't qualify them to be a knowledgeable coach

What qualifies someone to be a knowledgeable coach? Do you think you are more knowledgeable than an IFBB pro on diet, PEDs and training for people wanting to seriously compete?

The reasoning behind the supposed advice does seem off. I'd like to see the explanation and supposed logic behind it. Perhaps @only me can inquire with his coach and give us some more reasoning behind the advice.

 

[BigTomJ]

What qualifies someone to be a knowledgeable coach?

experience doing is not the same as experience teaching or coaching.
Most of the best coaches on the planet right now are not IFBB pros.

Experience is helpful, but its not always directly correlated with knowledge

Do you think you are more knowledgeable than an IFBB pro on diet, PEDs and training for people wanting to seriously compete?

Some pros? without a doubt yes.
All pros? absolutely not.

 

[farbeyonddriven]

experience doing is not the same as experience teaching or coaching.
Most of the best coaches on the planet right now are not IFBB pros.

Experience is helpful, but its not always directly correlated with knowledge

Some pros? without a doubt yes.
All pros? absolutely not.

Ok, but what is your perceived level of knowledge based on, how many likes you get on a board? I mean people always post papers as proof and then argue over what is a reliable source and what is not. Then you get people that say don't trust the experts with degrees, they have a sinister agenda.

Is your knowledge unique or something you saw and decided to believe and then teach those beliefs of others to clients?

Just saying it this way due to experience as you say not necessarily being required to be a good coach. Curious how you define knowledge when the most of what people claim is knowledge (especially on forums) is just opinion.

 

[Sector]

Nolvadex everyday is definitely overkill, and seems rather useless if you're goal it to boost your natural LH. Since you're cruising on exogenous test, it's just going to shut down again. It's a one step forward, one step back kind of deal. You're not actually accomplishing anything

The only reason you would really want to take nolvadex on cycle is to counter estrogen from binding to the receptor and/or stop gyno related side effects.

I take Nolvadex 2x a week on injection days along with 12.5mg aromasin to prevent the bit of glandular gyno I have from flaring up, but im also on 500mg test/week, and estrogen sensitive. I don't see this being an issue for you on 125mg test/week though

 

[readalot]

Read option 2 in the link below....

Keeping LH and FSH in range on TRT? Is it possible?

Hey everyone, this question is for those on TRT. As we all know while on TRT or on a cycle our LH and FSH is suppressed but Is there anyway to keeping your FSH and LH levels at a normal level while on trt? I heard that HCG is not enough for that.

thinksteroids.com

Happy to help if questions. Keeping your HPG(onadal)A functioning on actual TRT dosing with ester mix mimicking diurnal flucuation takes some real heroics.

Very very improbable you could do it on supraphysiologic dosing where your serum TT/FT stay very high all the time.

Pituitary restart while on TRT: promising initial results with GnRH plus enclomiphene

TL;DR: Over a period of seven weeks, treatment with GnRH and enclomiphene raised LH and FSH from around 0.1 mIU/mL to about 1.0 mIU/mL, even though TRT and hCG dosing were continued. Subjective results have been encouraging. I had written previously on the subject of GnRH suppression on TRT...

www.excelmale.com

Is GnRH suppression hurting us?

Admittedly the last thing we need is some other nebulous danger to worry about that may not even exist. Read on at your peril. TL;DR: Testosterone replacement therapy suppresses the production of GnRH. Receptors for GnRH are found in places besides the pituitary. One animal model suggests GnRH...

www.excelmale.com

 

[BigTomJ]

Ok, but what is your knowledge based on, how many likes you get on a board? I mean people always post papers as proof and then argue over what is a reliable source and what is not.

Is your knowledge unique or something you saw and decided to believe and then teach those beliefs of others to clients?

This is a completely fair question.

Im going to try and answer this question how i see it, without it being a "BigToms Coaching Service" advert, as I am not taking clients from meso currently. I dont want this to be construed as such.



there are two sides to the qualified coaching spectrum.
The experience side, and the educated side.

One is your guy that has learned what works through trial and error over the years and might not fully understand some mechanisms, but doesnt really need to since they have first hand experience.

The educated side are your "Science based" guys, they understand the mechanisms and the literature. They understand the main drivers of hypertrophy and how to incorporate them, they understand the digestion and nutrition aspects from their effort to expand their understanding and knowledge, but might not have had decades of slinging weight around to know first hand.



I see myself as being in the middle somewhere. I have been training at a high level for over a decade and working training and nutrition plans for clients at some capacity for 4-5 years now, on top of that i am myself an active competitor. So that covers a bit on the experience side.

On the educated side, its simply in my nature to expand my understanding of things that interest me. that has led to years of furthering my education and knowledgebase on the subjects of training, nutrition, and enhancement. This continues perpetually, im very often learning things that i either did not know initially or was mistaken about initially.

I personally do not have the raw experience of someone who has been coaching since the 90s, and i dont have the raw education of some of our more esteemed academics like @GreenAmine @Type-IIx ect. I have a bit of both that i believe work to keep each side in check.



As for our subject of why IFBB pros are not, by default, qualified to coach is because they are pros because of their discipline, and their genetics, neither of which translates into a transferable knowledge or experience base in all situations.



OP's coach is a perfect example.
Clearly works his ass off and has the genetics to become a pro, but has objectively wrong information in his plan thats rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of what that medication does.

 

[readalot]

Read option 2 in the link below....

Keeping LH and FSH in range on TRT? Is it possible?

Hey everyone, this question is for those on TRT. As we all know while on TRT or on a cycle our LH and FSH is suppressed but Is there anyway to keeping your FSH and LH levels at a normal level while on trt? I heard that HCG is not enough for that.

thinksteroids.com

Happy to help if questions. Keeping your HPG(onadal)A functioning on actual TRT dosing with ester mix mimicking diurnal flucuation takes some real heroics.

Very very improbable you could do it on supraphysiologic dosing where your serum TT/FT stay very high all the time.

Pituitary restart while on TRT: promising initial results with GnRH plus enclomiphene

TL;DR: Over a period of seven weeks, treatment with GnRH and enclomiphene raised LH and FSH from around 0.1 mIU/mL to about 1.0 mIU/mL, even though TRT and hCG dosing were continued. Subjective results have been encouraging. I had written previously on the subject of GnRH suppression on TRT...

www.excelmale.com

Is GnRH suppression hurting us?

Admittedly the last thing we need is some other nebulous danger to worry about that may not even exist. Read on at your peril. TL;DR: Testosterone replacement therapy suppresses the production of GnRH. Receptors for GnRH are found in places besides the pituitary. One animal model suggests GnRH...

www.excelmale.com

And a little more background for you OP. Sorry about the member pay wall (quick signup).

Gonadorelin to Replace HCG

Gonadorelin cannot be used successfully by itself as a replacement for hCG for men on exogenous testosterone in the fashion I am seeing it done by guys posting on here. In addition to the excellent summary by @youthful55guy on the need to pulse a gnrh agonist 4-8 times a day, there’s also the...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[farbeyonddriven]

This is a completely fair question.

Im going to try and answer this question how i see it, without it being a "BigToms Coaching Service" advert, as I am not taking clients from meso currently. I dont want this to be construed as such.



there are two sides to the qualified coaching spectrum.
The experience side, and the educated side.

One is your guy that has learned what works through trial and error over the years and might not fully understand some mechanisms, but doesnt really need to since they have first hand experience.

The educated side are your "Science based" guys, they understand the mechanisms and the literature. They understand the main drivers of hypertrophy and how to incorporate them, they understand the digestion and nutrition aspects from their effort to expand their understanding and knowledge, but might not have had decades of slinging weight around to know first hand.



I see myself as being in the middle somewhere. I have been training at a high level for over a decade and working training and nutrition plans for clients at some capacity for 4-5 years now, on top of that i am myself an active competitor. So that covers a bit on the experience side.

On the educated side, its simply in my nature to expand my understanding of things that interest me. that has led to years of furthering my education and knowledgebase on the subjects of training, nutrition, and enhancement. This continues perpetually, im very often learning things that i either did not know initially or was mistaken about initially.

I personally do not have the raw experience of someone who has been coaching since the 90s, and i dont have the raw education of some of our more esteemed academics like @GreenAmine @Type-IIx ect. I have a bit of both that i believe work to keep each side in check.



As for our subject of why IFBB pros are not, by default, qualified to coach is because they are pros because of their discipline, and their genetics, neither of which translates into a transferable knowledge or experience base in all situations.



OP's coach is a perfect example.
Clearly works his ass off and has the genetics to become a pro, but has objectively wrong information in his plan thats rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of what that medication does.

Hey man, if people pay you money to coach them, more power to you.
I still see a ton of opinion in your response. So you automatically call yourself a science based guy and say it is so because you say it and studied it and understand something that interests you. That is an opinion that seems to backed like I initially stated by 'likes' on a board.

I know plenty of gym rats in my gym that have the same 'resume' as you but they aren't coaches. If it is a decent money maker, maybe I should direct them to the boards.

BTW, my response is not meant to be insulting so please don't take it that way. I'm the type that likes to think outside the box and when I hear differing opinions, especially if they actually come from a pro, I wouldn't mind knowing what the full reasoning is.

 

[BigTomJ]

Hey man, if people pay you money to coach them, more power to you.
I still see a ton of opinion in your response. So you automatically call yourself a science based guy and say it is so because you say it and studied it and understand something that interests you. That is an opinion that seems to backed like I initially stated by 'likes' on a board.

Would you have preferred if, instead of answering your question, i gave a seminar on the various drivers of hypertrophy or nutrient timing to give some arbitrary credibility to my claims ironically through "Likes"

The point of my post wasnt a "hey look at me, im coach of the year"
the point was the answer your question in why pros arent necessarily good coaches.

EDITTED out some bullshit

BTW, my response is not meant to be insulting so please don't take it that way. I'm the type that likes to think outside the box and when I hear differing opinions, especially if they actually come from a pro, I wouldn't mind knowing what the full reasoning is.

None taken, the reasoning is the same we see all over high level sports and hobbies.
The NFL has head coaches that never played above college ball.
Most of the top IFBB coaches were never pros or even close to being pros.


There is some validity to the old cliché "Those that cant do, teach".
It takes exceptional talent and genetic gifts to excel in most high level sports, Some people simply dont have that talent/genetics but still harbor a love for that sport and dedicate the time and energy into knowing that sport inside and out.
You can be talented and gifted, and be a great coach/teacher, but they arent actually correlated very closely.

 

[farbeyonddriven]

Would you have preferred if, instead of answering your question, i gave a seminar on the various drivers of hypertrophy or nutrient timing to give some arbitrary credibility to my claims ironically through "Likes"

The point of my post wasnt a "hey look at me, im coach of the year"
the point was the answer your question in why pros arent necessarily good coaches.

The way you detract from the actual subject seem awfully reminiscent of one particular serial troll

You should do that.

Again, I'm just thinking outside the box. I hope OP @Onlyme can get more details from this pro coach of his on the original subject here and apologies to all for derailing.

I have no desire to be a coach. I have a very well paying job that is quite satisfying and challenging for me.

The other gym rats, idk. Would be interesting to talk with them about it. I'm sure one or two might be interested.

Anyway thanks for your responses. Have a great day.

 

[readalot]

Just to make it clear OP (you are getting a lot of different feedback)...on real TRT that attempts to mimick diurnal variation (see above link), there is a really good reason to use a SERM if you are trying to get some endogenous LH production. However, the SERM on its own isn't going to cut it. You'll need to use the GnRH as well.

 

[readalot]

mimick

mimic