Now Obese Getting back into the gym and moving again?

[Musmadar]

Judging by what the members of this site are saying.... generics seems to be a good enough choice.
Then, there is the aspect of "diving into the water" ...there is a moment when you have to act, assume some risks, no matter the way of action you choose, you won't reach perfection...

 

[lukiss96]

Seriously I appreciate the effort, but you did not read any of the posts mate?

1. I said specifically I don't want to run AAS yet, because I'm not ready to live the rest of my life on TRT. .... but I will say it's tempting me and I'm constantly considering jumping on it ...

I have no doubt that it would motivate me to go lift again, and give me the drive and energy to do so... testosterone do make the brain want to take action, period.

2. I'm exactly aware of what's got me into this problem, the cause can't be fixed at the moment (several sources of non stop traumatic stress) ... at best I can try to effect the cause or effects with meds and drugs.

3. thyroid meds, why? I'm not low in it ... I'll only add that if my kcal deficit is so big, that I have t4 slowdown, then I already have it at hand - this is not my first rodeo, I have completed RFL etc. and PSMF. before.

4. You realise the statistics for actually pulling off more than 40 kgs bodyfat without the use weightloss meds? it's like 3% as far as I remember... it's not "just going to fall off fast."

5. I feel fine mentally, despite having to deal with something traumatic daily recurring that can't be fixed! - I'm former special forces, I never had problems with lack of will power ... my biggest problem right now is an insane drive towards unhealthy foods ... really... to the degree where I doubt any mental toughness would be enough to stop it... => therefor I have gained to much weight, making it hard to train, move around, do sports, fuck and so on... meaning I'm now doubble fucked!... Its also negative effecting my immune system, which sucks because I have HPV so I get sex worts all over ... and suffers from Gerd as well, were if I forget to take PPIs just a single day, I'm at the hospital for operation the night after ... because it will give me a reaction that will make whatever food I eat stuck.

The problem (as well as the good thing) about having to much testosterone in the brain, is everything will be thought of as "just take more action" ... well those people don't even realise their own action is highly motivated by high amounts of testosterone to begin with.

Everyone is repeating the same while, no one is debating what drugs and meds could actually be useful in the situation.

Despite the TRT answer, thank you for that one.

To repeat the point of the thread:

First and foremost I'm going on semaglutide or tirzepatide, I'm quite sure this can psedu-fix the actual problem.

Then I will do a phase of massive kcal deficit: here I'm looking for ways to keep my muscle mass ...

Also looking for alternative to external testosterone that can physical motivate more movement and training (while I'm loosing the weight).

And for drugs to aid recovery ...

Possible for meds to fix the bloodpressure, water retention and stomach problems (GERD) as well as the HPV.

Over time the actual problem will become much smaller, and I can transsit into more of a lifestyle type of solution.

It's fine, I didn't read all posts, just briefly your OP. I understand eveything and I'm not judging, if you feel attacked somehow, perhaps don't assume so. It was not my intention. Here at Meso we have to understand everyone is differrent with diffetent goals in their mind.

I just shared my thoughts, that sometimes things that happen to us lead to abuse, like it happened to me. I was a steroid abuser at one point. Not implying you are prone, but just know it's a possibility for all of us.

I fully understand your goals and with that, I hope you achieve them and more.

 

[DanishPanther]

I'm looking for good drugs / meds, for the specific functions I mentioned.

I have keept trying to do so, we are on page 3 now.

And guys keeps talking about everything else.

 

[DanishPanther]

It's fine, I didn't read all posts, just briefly your OP. I understand eveything and I'm not judging, if you feel attacked somehow, perhaps don't assume so. It was not my intention. Here at Meso we have to understand everyone is differrent with diffetent goals in their mind.

I just shared my thoughts, that sometimes things that happen to us lead to abuse, like it happened to me. I was a steroid abuser at one point. Not implying you are prone, but just know it's a possibility for all of us.

I fully understand your goals and with that, I hope you achieve them and more.

No problem mate ...
That warning is fine and in place.

I don't know if I will have to use GL1 drugs for life yet to be honest, but I will try to use the drugs to get the situation better, in the hope that I don't have to.

Otherwise I guess I can just as well do TRT as well.

But I'm trying to find ways to deal with it, without having to use AAS yet.

I'm looking into HGH, Clenbuterol, Metformin, Telmisartan and so on ... but even more so, for peptides or things I don't know about that might be healthier choices or cheaper than those.

 

[lukiss96]

No problem mate ...
That warning is fine and in place.

I don't know if I will have to use GL1 drugs for life yet to be honest, but I will try to use the drugs to get the situation better, in the hope that I don't have to.

Otherwise I guess I can just as well do TRT as well.

But I'm trying to find ways to deal with it, without having to use AAS yet.

I'm looking into HGH, Clenbuterol, Metformin, Telmisartan and so on ... but even more so, for peptides or things I don't know about that might be healthier choices or cheaper than those.

If I can advise anything from things listed besides TRT, is to look in to salbutamol instead of clenbuterol. I have used clen many times and thought it was it. But after trying salbutamol, I truly can say it's better and safer in all regards. Much more tolerated and half life being shorter makes it much more mangeable in day to day life. It is approved for asthma. I like it better. I was non believer before though.

 

[DanishPanther]

If I can advise anything from things listed besides TRT, is to look in to salbutamol instead of clenbuterol. I have used clen many times and thought it was it. But after trying salbutamol, I truly can say it's better and safer in all regards. Much more tolerated and half life being shorter makes it much more mangeable in day to day life. It is approved for asthma. I like it better. I was non believer before though.

Thank you man I def will ... I won't be using clean day to day, but for the first 12 weeks tops, I know from experience that it gets me want to move ... I simply feel horrible untill I go for a walk or to train ... so that's what I was speculating using it for... but the problem might be the blood pressure.

I read Joe Jefferies book about Clenbuterol though, very backed up with science and well written ... he argument that most arguments against Clean does not have much ground to walk on ...

Ephedrine could be another option, it also makes me want to move usually.

 

[lukiss96]

Thank you man I def will ... I won't be using clean day to day, but for the first 12 weeks tops, I know from experience that it gets me want to move ... I simply feel horrible untill I go for a walk or to train ... so that's what I was speculating using it for... but the problem might be the blood pressure.

I read Joe Jefferies book about Clenbuterol though, very backed up with science and well written ... he argument that most arguments against Clean does not have much ground to walk on ...

Ephedrine could be another option, it also makes me want to move usually.

I believe clen is pretty safe at reasonable dosages. I get what you're saying, it provides you that energy to move. Another thing comes close to this is anavar, but it's a steroid of course. Makes me want to do stuff.

Salbutamol's biggest advantage is probably that half life is shorter and therefore if you overdose or want to quit it takes much less time to be out of your system. I find it doesn't interfere with sleep at all. Very well tolerated. As far as results I can honestly say +- the same. Both work very well.

 

[DanishPanther]

Thank you mate, that's really worth knowing.

And yeah I'm not much for running anavar without testosterone.
and I'm not much for running testosterone without going on trt for life.
So many would say that's my problem really ...

Lol, I actually only ran 20 mg clen the time I tried it back then I was 118 kgs, and it was enough to make me walk 40 km a day each morning... I went down to 108, then some family catastrophy happened, and before I knew of it or hardly noticed it, I was at 135 kgs.

Anyways, I once took 80 mg as an accident, that jump I had to walk for 5 hours, because it felt like I would have a heart attack if I stopped, after that I was okay again.

To be fair i didn't think the clean (took it first thing in the morning) had that big effect on my sleep ... right now the weight have massive effect on my sleep though (negatively).

 

[malfeasance]

I'm looking for good drugs / meds, for the specific functions I mentioned.

I have keept trying to do so, we are on page 3 now.

And guys keeps talking about everything else.

The "everything else" is what matters.

Honestly, some of us have actually cut before.

Clenbuterol kind of sucks. I have used it, but I hated it, and it does not do as much as some other things, and I never used it in prep as a result. If I thought it was great for cutting fat, then I would have used it in prep.

 

[DanishPanther]

The "everything else" is what matters.

Honestly, some of us have actually cut before.

Clenbuterol kind of sucks. I have used it, but I hated it, and it does not do as much as some other things, and I never used it in prep as a result. If I thought it was great for cutting fat, then I would have used it in prep.

So what if it's everything else that matters?
That's irrelevant for the thread ...

I didn't ask for everyone to give my life, training or diet advice.

As for cutting, you did read the part where I wrote that I have been living around 7-8% bf messured on DEXY for 15 years before these problems occurred? you think that would be the case if I didn't know how to cut?

 

[trtbuilder]

So what if it's everything else that matters?
That's irrelevant for the thread ...

I didn't ask for everyone to give my life, training or diet advice.

As for cutting, you did read the part where I wrote that I have been living around 7-8% bf messured on DEXY for 15 years before these problems occurred? you think that would be the case if I didn't know how to cut?

The good news is you can go ahead and delete this thread. You know everything and you're too good to listen to anything that challenges the way you think. Good luck, fattie!

 

[DECLAN]

So what if it's everything else that matters?
That's irrelevant for the thread ...

I didn't ask for everyone to give my life, training or diet advice.

As for cutting, you did read the part where I wrote that I have been living around 7-8% bf messured on DEXY for 15 years before these problems occurred? you think that would be the case if I didn't know how to cut?

Damn, how were you able to maintain 7-8% for even a year. I think you should be giving me advice instead. Can you share diet and nutrition info please.

What was your cutting protocols? Were you holding decent size or just skinny?

I don’t think this forum can help you much if you are very advanced like you claim.

 

[DanishPanther]

Damn, how were you able to maintain 7-8% for even a year. I think you should be giving me advice instead. Can you share diet and nutrition info please.

What was your cutting protocols? Were you holding decent size or just skinny?

I don’t think this forum can help you much if you are very advanced like you claim.

It doesn't take anything advanced! And it's easy when you are natural and your nervous system and body overall is working as it should, you are young, in good shape and is rather autistic when it comes to your diet - and you are overall very active - when I say 7-8% it's because at the lower end of 7% it all became unstable, hunger kicked in too much, my hormone profile would go havoc, my libido die and such - so I never tried to push it future, but kept just above it, everything functioned perfect and I was feeling great.

I ate 5-6 meals evenly spread over the "waking" hours with roughly the same nutritional profile: in practise I developed like 15 meals that all had the same profile, and switched between them. If I ate something bad, I replaced one of the meals with it, and only did that when gaining weight.
I Consumed quality protein in relation to activity level, for me that was around 2.0 – 2.5g per kg. body weight.

I ate 60-70g of quality fat daily, - corresponding to 20% of the total daily energy intake at 2700 and 3150 Kcal, which where the range I personally lived in. - Back then I belived in Udos choice ... today I would probably have used more fish oil.

The trick when you get down there for me any way is to do it slowly, I used a few years, from arond 16-18% bf trying to hit 250 kcal deficit ... and then I just never bulked up, but had my gaining phases around 250-350 kcal max, and as soon as I hit 8% I would turn the suplus to deficit.

In practise it was just a matter if I had 40 grams extra oats or an extra banana in my whey shake or not and an extra daily walk.

Today you can do it every easy with cronometer, I had to do it with PROTRACK from DAKOTAFIT.

I didn't do anything crazy, I lifted heavy weights, programmed my training smart, I never did fasted cardio or anything crazy, I didn't take anything, besides a multivitamin, creatine and fishoil ...

The entire thing filled very little in my life, and took very little effort to be honest. I stayed away from much I liked, but I liked all the meals I ate. I had 4 gym session a week, that was about it. Food and training just became rutine.

It's a totally different for the situation I'm in now.

And I can no longer use the methods to get even close back to where I was.
I would be happy around 10-12% now, even 15 I can live with ... at the moment I'm 30%+

First of all I can't use a year adjusting 1% bodyfat - it would take me 10 years just to get back to a weight where I could get moving and training again - forget about dying young, I'm too fucking old to have the time for that right now - I'm not aimin at becomming lean when I'm 55 - I'm 45 I have perhaps 15-20 years left of my "youth", and I want to enjoy it more than I am now!

I'm not satisfied naturally at 2700-3150 kcals anyrmore, even less at 1800 or 1200 or 800, my nervous system is screaming in a way it's a challange to even stay below 4500 kcals... and even if I eat 4500 kcal of vegs, fruits, lean meat, good carbs, like oats, brown rice, fiber pasta; my system still screams for sweets and junk.
I can eat 5 pancakes with nutella after that and still be craving more sweets.
If I don't eat it, my brain will think of nothing else!

And. also I don't move 1/10's as much, and do not train anymore, the weight and my system demotivates me from doing so. Even a walk feels demanding to recover from.

Lastly, my motivation used to be to look good naked (and not for other men in tiny panties), but now with the HPV, that has become less of a factor, though if I could clear it up a little I would not mind going back banging while I still can!

Now I don't know much about training if you are on gear, but if you are natural, and does not have these traumas in your nervous system (gl1-issues), and not lazy ... I would easily be able to help you get to 7-8% bf naturally ... to be fair I'm below 180 cm, and I achived it at a max weight around 84 kgs at my heavies, and was down around 74 kg at my lightest (I had been much lighter earlier, but in these years training and eating like this).

 

[DECLAN]

It doesn't take anything advanced! And it's easy when you are natural and your nervous system and body overall is working as it should, you are young, in good shape and is rather autistic when it comes to your diet - and you are overall very active - when I say 7-8% it's because at the lower end of 7% it all became unstable, hunger kicked in too much, my hormone profile would go havoc, my libido die and such - so I never tried to push it future, but kept just above it, everything functioned perfect and I was feeling great.

I ate 5-6 meals evenly spread over the "waking" hours with roughly the same nutritional profile: in practise I developed like 15 meals that all had the same profile, and switched between them. If I ate something bad, I replaced one of the meals with it, and only did that when gaining weight.
I Consumed quality protein in relation to activity level, for me that was around 2.0 – 2.5g per kg. body weight.

I ate 60-70g of quality fat daily, - corresponding to 20% of the total daily energy intake at 2700 and 3150 Kcal, which where the range I personally lived in. - Back then I belived in Udos choice ... today I would probably have used more fish oil.

The trick when you get down there for me any way is to do it slowly, I used a few years, from arond 16-18% bf trying to hit 250 kcal deficit ... and then I just never bulked up, but had my gaining phases around 250-350 kcal max, and as soon as I hit 8% I would turn the suplus to deficit.

In practise it was just a matter if I had 40 grams extra oats or an extra banana in my whey shake or not and an extra daily walk.

Today you can do it every easy with cronometer, I had to do it with PROTRACK from DAKOTAFIT.

I didn't do anything crazy, I lifted heavy weights, programmed my training smart, I never did fasted cardio or anything crazy, I didn't take anything, besides a multivitamin, creatine and fishoil ...

The entire thing filled very little in my life, and took very little effort to be honest. I stayed away from much I liked, but I liked all the meals I ate. I had 4 gym session a week, that was about it. Food and training just became rutine.

It's a totally different for the situation I'm in now.

And I can no longer use the methods to get even close back to where I was.
I would be happy around 10-12% now, even 15 I can live with ... at the moment I'm 30%+

First of all I can't use a year adjusting 1% bodyfat - it would take me 10 years just to get back to a weight where I could get moving and training again - forget about dying young, I'm too fucking old to have the time for that right now - I'm not aimin at becomming lean when I'm 55 - I'm 45 I have perhaps 15-20 years left of my "youth", and I want to enjoy it more than I am now!

I'm not satisfied naturally at 2700-3150 kcals anyrmore, even less at 1800 or 1200 or 800, my nervous system is screaming in a way it's a challange to even stay below 4500 kcals... and even if I eat 4500 kcal of vegs, fruits, lean meat, good carbs, like oats, brown rice, fiber pasta; my system still screams for sweets and junk.
I can eat 5 pancakes with nutella after that and still be craving more sweets.
If I don't eat it, my brain will think of nothing else!

And. also I don't move 1/10's as much, and do not train anymore, the weight and my system demotivates me from doing so. Even a walk feels demanding to recover from.

Lastly, my motivation used to be to look good naked (and not for other men in tiny panties), but now with the HPV, that has become less of a factor, though if I could clear it up a little I would not mind going back banging while I still can!

Now I don't know much about training if you are on gear, but if you are natural, and does not have these traumas in your nervous system (gl1-issues), and not lazy ... I would easily be able to help you get to 7-8% bf naturally ... to be fair I'm below 180 cm, and I achived it at a max weight around 84 kgs at my heavies, and was down around 74 kg at my lightest (I had been much lighter earlier, but in these years training and eating like this).

Goddamn, I don’t know man, you make it sound so easy to be below 10%. I am telling you 95% in most forums who use all these drugs are not below 10% for even half a year. And for those who do are mostly competitors and will go back to 10-15% range after contest.

You’re right though its easy if you’re that tall and skinny.

 

[DanishPanther]

I found it very very easy actually, and so it was with everyone I trained with.
Under the conditions I described it just takes stability, accepting sacrifice and patience... Most I ever trained with achived it ... few perhaps had the desire to live like that for many years like I did, I was training athletes in strength training - after my time in the military, while studying and later while working, so I had an easy time finding the motivation ... also I really liked women and looking good naked.

Well most don't have the patience, and I don't blame them, I no longer have from the set point I'm ended up at either. ... but when you come from a childhood, where you never had junk food to threats (perhaps once a month I would get candy) and played outside all day, did sports - then joined the army for a few years - my setpoint just made it rather easy. It was funny back then I felt fat just having a few kg of bodyfat too much ... perception is weird that way.

PS: I'm like 178 (so not that tall) ... the average in my country is like 182 cm, but I was very very skinny as a kid, and they starved us good while I was in the army ... I had 2 years with a gf, where I gained perhaps 10 kg, from eating to much sweets watching movies.. perhaps half that was fat, and I used a year or two cutting off those 5 kg of flap ... then It was just living in the plan.


My body and my life was overall very stable as well ... eventually everything just changed ...

I wasn't special then and I'm not now either ...
I blive many has healthy systems and many have unhealthy ones.
And despite what people with healthy systems want to think about those with unhealthy ones to feel good about themselves; it's a deal breaker.

If you want ultra low bodyfat, you need stability more than anything else.

Well the way I did it anyways ... again most can't or won't like like that: so they have to find other ways ... and that's the situation I'm in myself now.

Btw. I've always been rather strong I started lifting weights (olympic in a gym run by strongmen) when I was 15, then trained in the army, and when heavy into strength training when I was like 21 and beyond ... I even traveled to the US to be certified under Rippetoe and shit ...

 

[DanishPanther]

The good news is you can go ahead and delete this thread. You know everything and you're too good to listen to anything that challenges the way you think. Good luck, fattie!

no, I don't know much about drugs, meds and peptides, which is what my thread was about ...

I know basically everything there is to know about diet and training.

 

[malfeasance]

I'm not satisfied naturally at 2700-3150 kcals anyrmore, even less at 1800 or 1200 or 800, my nervous system is screaming in a way it's a challange to even stay below 4500 kcals... and even if I eat 4500 kcal of vegs, fruits, lean meat, good carbs, like oats, brown rice, fiber pasta; my system still screams for sweets and junk.
I can eat 5 pancakes with nutella after that and still be craving more sweets.
If I don't eat it, my brain will think of nothing else!

And. also I don't move 1/10's as much, and do not train anymore, the weight and my system demotivates me from doing so. Even a walk feels demanding to recover from.

I don't think anybody here can help you, given what you posted. No drugs will make up for eating 4500 calories and no training or even walking. Maybe DNP at the max everyday, if you can stand the sweating.

 

[DanishPanther]

I don't think anybody here can help you, given what you posted. No drugs will make up for eating 4500 calories and no training or even walking. Maybe DNP at the max everyday, if you can stand the sweating.

The uncontrolable hunger (and drive towards wrong food choices) due to stress and nerve system damages should be easily fixable with an GLP-1 receptor agonist: I seek more information about those, but I know that much at least.

It's a process: from there losing weight from a massive kcal deficit and big protein intake, will make it easier to get myself back into training and walking in itself; but that does not mean there aren't any peds or meds that can help with recovery, makes me less weak from the kcal deficit or support getting moving in the morning’, we’re of course talking about stimulants there (in the lack of readiness for TRT).

 

[malfeasance]

Yeah, I do not have any experience with stimulants or GLP-1 receptor agonists, so I have no advice to offer.

I don't understand not being able to just make a decision about calories and macros and sticking to it, so I am the wrong person to provide any guidance to you.

I like beer and ice cream and peanuts with chocolate, but I don't keep consuming all that when it's time to shed fat, so I don't get it. Sorry.

I still encourage you to get out and start hiking or walking or cardio of some sort and get active. Honestly, your inability to do that makes me wonder if you are depressed or something - and you may be in a better mental mood if you just force yourself to start being active.

 

[lonewolf54321]

no, I don't know much about drugs, meds and peptides, which is what my thread was about ...

I know basically everything there is to know about diet and training.

"Drugs, meds, and peptides " are just a small tool to help as you diet. The diet and exercise are the main tool for weight loss. You can take 15mg of tirz every day and get fat as fuck if you can't control stuffing your face. You already know what you need to do. Man the fuck up and do it already. Use the drugs, mess, and peptides for what they are....1 small tool in the toolbox.