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[Wood4days]

In my experience doing this without exogenous insulin has a tendency to create some insulin resistance, at least that's what I found by tracking fasted cardio. Do you have a certain method you found works well and doesn't have that effect?

I was on GH for 12 months straight. Started at 3iu and worked my way up to 5iu.

I’ve been off GH for a good year now and my sugar level is high. Insulin resistance? I was fine before GH

I just started taking Berberine so hopefully that helps lower my sugar.

You think this is permanent?

 

[mands]

I wish I knew the proper way to answer this, although I do know it's very effective for growth.

This would be one for @ChestRockwell or @mands to chime in on since I know I'll mess up explaining it

I will state this as simple as possible. As we all know GH will cause insulin resistance. When taking GH over 5-6 iu's it seems to be even more prolific. This is why we introduce insulin. As you know IGF-1 and insulin increase satellite cell proliferation in muscles. So, we want plenty of IGF-1 and Insulin for growth. We can't have insulin resistance while running higher doses of GH. Just wouldn't be worth running IMO. Hope I explained that okay. @ChestRockwell hopefully will step in.

I would also like to add(a lot of questions on dosing) if you are running 5-6 iu's of GH I would split these shots up into three shots. I didn't touch on systemic IGF levels vs. local IGF which it would benefit to keep systemic lower if possible. You can do this by running as I suggested. Running one large dose at night(which I have in the past) can cause these levels to rise higher.

Damn that’s a shit load of Tren lol. Yes Tren will affect igf score. Mine was in the 140’s on 500mg a Tren long ago when I was on 4iu Hygetropin. I was also a bit confused but many told me it was the Tren that was knocking my igf down. Tamoxifen also knocks igf down also.

What was your igf-1 levels on 4 iu's of GH off tren?

mands

 

[Wood4days]

Alright so got igf-1 results in just now. Ran 5ius a day for 20 days of optis blacks. Currently running 1 gram test cyp(stanford), 750npp(stanford) and 700 tren a(tgi). Injected 5ius every morning as soon as I woke up on an empty stomach didnt eat for an hour after sub q in stomach. 19-notes affecting the results????View attachment 104673

Thanks for sharing.

So is that good or bad? It says normal.

What’s your base?

 

[Evom1]

I was on GH for 12 months straight. Started at 3iu and worked my way up to 5iu.

I’ve been off GH for a good year now and my sugar level is high. Insulin resistance? I was fine before GH

I just started taking Berberine so hopefully that helps lower my sugar.

You think this is permanent?

Permanent I can't say, not a doctor. How high are your levels?

I personally would do the berberine, 500mg 3x per day, as well as low carb or carb cycling and add some fasted cardio even low intensity. Mine was up as high as 114, came back down into the 80s

 

[penche]

I will state this as simple as possible. As we all know GH will cause insulin resistance. When taking GH over 5-6 iu's it seems to be even more prolific. This is why we introduce insulin. As you know IGF-1 and insulin increase satellite cell proliferation in muscles. So, we want plenty of IGF-1 and Insulin for growth. We can't have insulin resistance while running higher doses of GH. Just wouldn't be worth running IMO. Hope I explained that okay. @ChestRockwell hopefully will step in.

I would also like to add(a lot of questions on dosing) if you are running 5-6 iu's of GH I would split these shots up into three shots. I didn't touch on systemic IGF levels vs. local IGF which it would benefit to keep systemic lower if possible. You can do this by running as I suggested. Running one large dose at night(which I have in the past) can cause these levels to rise higher.

What was your igf-1 levels on 4 iu's of GH off tren?

mands

I need to dig through my labs and check if I retested. Many moons ago when I posted the labs a lot of knowledgeable members told me Tren and Novla affects igf, in which I was using at the time. @mands do you agree or disagree?

 

[Wood4days]

Permanent I can't say, not a doctor. How high are your levels?

I personally would do the berberine, 500mg 3x per day, as well as low carb or carb cycling and add some fasted cardio even low intensity. Mine was up as high as 114, came back down into the 80s

Mine is at 101

Normal is 90 or below

Hope berberine works.

Also have high blood pressure lol god damnit. Just bought some garlic capsules which suppose to help lower BP and apple cider vinegar daily.

 

[taco33150]

I need to dig through my labs and check if I retested. Many moons ago when I posted the labs a lot of knowledgeable members told me Tren and Novla affects igf, in which I was using at the time. @mands do you agree or disagree?

You notice any difference running growth and Tren together? Or is it better with Tren alone ? Since it affects Igf-1

 

[taco33150]

Damn that’s a shit load of Tren lol. Yes Tren will affect igf score. Mine was in the 140’s on 500mg a Tren long ago when I was on 4iu Hygetropin. I was also a bit confused but many told me it was the Tren that was knocking my igf down. Tamoxifen also knocks igf down also.

That’s how much I did every day remember..the brew you did .dose maybe 110

 

[Logan44551]

Alright so got igf-1 results in just now. Ran 5ius a day for 20 days of optis blacks. Currently running 1 gram test cyp(stanford), 750npp(stanford) and 700 tren a(tgi). Injected 5ius every morning as soon as I woke up on an empty stomach didnt eat for an hour after sub q in stomach. 19-notes affecting the results????View attachment 104673

That's a pretty horrible number for 5iu daily, I don't care how much tren your running. @opti not a very good first test. Anyone else pulling bloods on these soon?

 

[Shyster]

That's a pretty horrible number for 5iu daily, I don't care how much tren your running. @opti not a very good first test. Anyone else pulling bloods on these soon?

I pulled bloods this morning, will post up when I get results. I’m on 1gram test, 600 primo e and 750 eq. No 19-nors so it’ll be a good comparison to @BrianNOLA70065

I’m running 5ius as well. Split doses morning and night

 

[Logan44551]

I pulled bloods this morning, will post up when I get results. I’m on 1gram test, 600 primo e and 750 eq. No 19-nors so it’ll be a good comparison to @BrianNOLA70065

Sweet

 

[tengtren]

I pulled bloods this morning, will post up when I get results. I’m on 1gram test, 600 primo e and 750 eq. No 19-nors so it’ll be a good comparison to @BrianNOLA70065

I’m running 5ius as well. Split doses morning and night

Can't wait to see

 

[penche]

That’s how much I did every day remember..the brew you did .dose maybe 110

I do remember, that was about 1 year ago. I wish they hadn’t discontinued pellet Tren . And I will address that I was on another board not here, scr’ing some bottles of pellet Tren for those folks wondering. The board name I was doing this was steroid-forum.com. Some members were on both boards

Been retired over a year now.

 

[Opti]

Alright so got igf-1 results in just now. Ran 5ius a day for 20 days of optis blacks. Currently running 1 gram test cyp(stanford), 750npp(stanford) and 700 tren a(tgi). Injected 5ius every morning as soon as I woke up on an empty stomach didnt eat for an hour after sub q in stomach. 19-notes affecting the results????View attachment 104673

Thank you for posting your results @BrianNOLA70065. Would you happen to have any previous igf bloods done on a similar cycle.

That's a pretty horrible number for 5iu daily, I don't care how much tren your running. @opti not a very good first test. Anyone else pulling bloods on these soon?

I agree @Logan44551. As you know their can be many variables that can affect our igf levels. I was expecting to have had results on a vial I sent out for testing this week but some issue arose and more than likely wont get them till next week.

I pulled bloods this morning, will post up when I get results. I’m on 1gram test, 600 primo e and 750 eq. No 19-nors so it’ll be a good comparison to @BrianNOLA70065

I’m running 5ius as well. Split doses morning and night

Look forward to your results @Shyster. Do you have any previous blood-work to compare it to?

 

[BrianNOLA70065]

Thank you for posting your results @BrianNOLA70065. Would you happen to have any previous igf bloods done on a similar cycle.




I agree @Logan44551. As you know their can be many variables that can affect our igf levels. I was expecting to have had results on a vial I sent out for testing this week but some issue arose and more than likely wont get them till next week.



Look forward to your results @Shyster. Do you have any previous blood-work to compare it to?

I dont have any previous igf bloods bro sorry

 

[Wood4days]

I pulled bloods this morning, will post up when I get results. I’m on 1gram test, 600 primo e and 750 eq. No 19-nors so it’ll be a good comparison to @BrianNOLA70065

I’m running 5ius as well. Split doses morning and night

Oh yeah that would be a good comparison.

 

[Serono]

That's a pretty horrible number for 5iu daily, I don't care how much tren your running. @opti not a very good first test. Anyone else pulling bloods on these soon?

I dont have any previous igf bloods bro sorry

IGF, in my experience(which is quite significant) can be a finicky thing. In my experience in a perfect world, someone who converts as expected will get 100iu points per IU of injected GH. However, some people, for whatever reason, just don't convert well. I have seen this in people who were running pretty heavy cycles including hepatoxic compounds(orals, tren, etc) many times deep into a prep, etc, and I have seen it in guys running NOTHING. I have seen guys who had pulled these shitty numbers, come off these heavy cycles, and IGF comes back up, and on the other hand, I have seen people who just never convert well.

This is why I maintain that IGF isn't a great test for GH verification. It relies on conversion. It is not a "if you take this, this WILL happen" scenario. It would be like trying to quantify if testosterone is real, or how it is dosed, by using estrogen levels. Well shit, some peoples E2 levels don't rise much. It can be a good test if we have a known good responder, or for ones on peace of mind, but at the end of the day, the fact is, I have seen people who are known good responders go through bouts of lower IGF. And it isn't always as simple as going "or you are running tren" or an oral, or whatever.

I will give you an example, myself. No matter what I take, I can not get my IGF-1 over 200. I have yet to figure out why. This is off everything, on nothing more than a TRT dose of test, no signs of insulin resistance, etc. This goes back YEARS, and on all pharma GH(huma,nordi, geno, sero, doesn't matter). 10iu? Doesn't matter.

On the flip side, the positive effects of GH are undeniable. So I don't really even know what to make of it anymore. I will say, naturally, my liver enzymes, and billirubin, are on the higher side of normal. I am wondering if I have some sort of condition that prevents proper conversion to IGF. I have played around with so many variables over the years, but just never been able to isolate it. So all I can do is chalk it up to, that is my body.

S-

 

[rpbb]

IGF, in my experience(which is quite significant) can be a finicky thing. In my experience in a perfect world, someone who converts as expected will get 100iu points per IU of injected GH. However, some people, for whatever reason, just don't convert well. I have seen this in people who were running pretty heavy cycles including hepatoxic compounds(orals, tren, etc) many times deep into a prep, etc, and I have seen it in guys running NOTHING. I have seen guys who had pulled these shitty numbers, come off these heavy cycles, and IGF comes back up, and on the other hand, I have seen people who just never convert well.

This is why I maintain that IGF isn't a great test for GH verification. It relies on conversion. It is not a "if you take this, this WILL happen" scenario. It would be like trying to quantify if testosterone is real, or how it is dosed, by using estrogen levels. Well shit, some peoples E2 levels don't rise much. It can be a good test if we have a known good responder, or for ones on peace of mind, but at the end of the day, the fact is, I have seen people who are known good responders go through bouts of lower IGF. And it isn't always as simple as going "or you are running tren" or an oral, or whatever.

I will give you an example, myself. No matter what I take, I can not get my IGF-1 over 200. I have yet to figure out why. This is off everything, on nothing more than a TRT dose of test, no signs of insulin resistance, etc. This goes back YEARS, and on all pharma GH(huma,nordi, geno, sero, doesn't matter). 10iu? Doesn't matter.

On the flip side, the positive effects of GH are undeniable. So I don't really even know what to make of it anymore. I will say, naturally, my liver enzymes, and billirubin, are on the higher side of normal. I am wondering if I have some sort of condition that prevents proper conversion to IGF. I have played around with so many variables over the years, but just never been able to isolate it. So all I can do is chalk it up to, that is my body.

S-

Yeah, when trying to put math to the human body, you can end up very confused. That's why the only true way to know if hgh is any good is hplc testing

 

[BrianNOLA70065]

Talked with opti after I got the results yesterday. Told him I was disappointed with the number but I'm no expert. I told him that I didnt feel any difference on his kit than when I'm on meditrope blacktops or jins. My hands are just as numb and swollen. I eat whatever I want and don't gain any fat. As far as feels go I feel like shit is comparable to any other growth I've ran. Opti was wanting to compensate me for the fact that I had normal igf score. I was kind of confused as to why he would want to do that after I had just told him I felt the shit was fiya despite the number. Dude is a stand up guy just wanting to keep a happy customer. Explained to him that I was totally satisfied with product and that I'd be scoring from him again. I just feel like if I would have let him compensate me for the low number just to make sure I was happy that I would've been taking advantage of him cause I believe these generic blacks are fiya.

 

[Serono]

Yeah, when trying to put math to the human body, you can end up very confused. That's why the only true way to know if hgh is any good is hplc testing

Agreed, only issue is, lab testing is almost a "dark art" and we have to trust the technician doing the test, is both competent, and more importantly HONEST.

Talked with opti after I got the results yesterday. Told him I was disappointed with the number but I'm no expert. I told him that I didnt feel any difference on his kit than when I'm on meditrope blacktops or jins. My hands are just as numb and swollen. I eat whatever I want and don't gain any fat. As far as feels go I feel like shit is comparable to any other growth I've ran. Opti was wanting to compensate me for the fact that I had normal igf score. I was kind of confused as to why he would want to do that after I had just told him I felt the shit was fiya despite the number. Dude is a stand up guy just wanting to keep a happy customer. Explained to him that I was totally satisfied with product and that I'd be scoring from him again. I just feel like if I would have let him compensate me for the low number just to make sure I was happy that I would've been taking advantage of him cause I believe these generic blacks are fiya.

What would be the boards feelings on, in the name of science, I send this dude enough sero to run 4iu for 9-10 days and he retests IGF-1. I would be willing to bet his IGF doesn't budge, but would be a cool experiment. Yay? Nay? This low IGF thing is something I have been trying to figure out for a long time..lol

I feel for Opti, because as a new source, you want to make everyone happy, and his rep is hinged on this stupid fucking IGF test, that can be complete dogshit depending on the person.