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[penche]

All in one shot or split up? Best time to take? Looking primarily for mass and well being

What else are you using with HGH? I’d lay out all you’re taking, training schedule and all to help receive the advice you’re looking for. Let it be known You have been advised by @rutman ...this man has been in the game a veeeery long time. Like a wizard with tons of knowledge and experience. Absorb it all brotha and best of luck with your goals. HGH is expensive, make the best of it, have a plan and execute it.

 

[Rockclimber]

I'm a poor responder in general but I've noticed that harsh orals like Anadrol lower my igf score even more than normal. I just received some Pharma HGH so I'm going to run my igf after that as a Baseline since I have tested my bloods on so many different brands already. It will be interesting to see what Pharma grade does to my igf, I will post here and in the godtropin thread in 3 weeks when I get my blood done.

 

[Serono]

I'm a poor responder in general but I've noticed that harsh orals like Anadrol lower my igf score even more than normal. I just received some Pharma HGH so I'm going to run my igf after that as a Baseline since I have tested my bloods on so many different brands already. It will be interesting to see what Pharma grade does to my igf, I will post here and in the godtropin thread in 3 weeks when I get my blood done.

This is a common denominator in a lot of the lower IGF scores that I see. Not all, but numerous times, I see it, it is guys deep in contest prep, running orals + tren, dieting, etc. The one argument I have seen made, is the conversion is done in the liver and impaired liver function, leads to impaired conversion. Which seems logical, however there is really no studies to back any of this stuff, and there never will be because it would be unethical to even study this on humans..lol

The other common denominator I have seen in some is impaired thyroid function, this can be seen in some of the same prep guys as well.

So really what I would love to see is @BrianNOLA70065 repeat this test on pharma gh, but also do a CMP, and basic thyroid panel(tsh, free t3, free t4, thyroglobulin antibodies, etc). I will gladly pay for the blood work, or split it with opti, whatever. I just want to see the results

 

[Sevro]

What else are you using with HGH? I’d lay out all you’re taking, training schedule and all to help receive the advice you’re looking for. Let it be known You have been advised by @rutman ...this man has been in the game a veeeery long time. Like a wizard with tons of knowledge and experience. Absorb it all brotha and best of luck with your goals. HGH is expensive, make the best of it, have a plan and execute it.

I plan to run it solo since it’s my first run with GH and don’t really want to go through pct if I added in gear. I train 5 days a week, mostly basic split of muscle groups. Add on progressive weight as the weeks go on. I mainly would like to see some (not looking for 15-20lbs) quality mass. As I mentioned before I’m also curious as to the feeling of well being that a lot people wxperience. I could certainly use some

 

[Fecalhead]

Blood just got drawn. They said 2 to 3 days for results

 

[mands]

Also this is regarding endogenous IGF-1, not when you are stimulating conversion via exogenous GH. I think we need to be careful drawing parallels there.

Totally agree with your statement that the drop is is in endogenous IGF-1.

You are stating that nolva and tren are suppressing the conversion of Gh to IGF-1 along with endogenous IGF?

@opti i see you are sending off your GH to be tested. Was there a reason why you didn’t do this before hand when you decided to source on meso? Or did you?

mands

 

[Logan44551]

I plan to run it solo since it’s my first run with GH and don’t really want to go through pct if I added in gear. I train 5 days a week, mostly basic split of muscle groups. Add on progressive weight as the weeks go on. I mainly would like to see some (not looking for 15-20lbs) quality mass. As I mentioned before I’m also curious as to the feeling of well being that a lot people wxperience. I could certainly use some

Never had a feeling of well being from HGH, quite the opposite the cts was damn near unbearable at times. Shitty sleep, hands so no mb they hurt.

 

[Fecalhead]

Never had a feeling of well being from HGH, quite the opposite the cts was damn near unbearable at times. Shitty sleep, hands so no mb they hurt.

The feeling of well being is low dose and no AAS except low dose T. Generally no more than 2iu 5 days a week.
I sleep like a log 8 to 10 hrs and don’t wake up to piss 3 times a night like I would not on gh. I remember back in the day when I was in the gym before I became a surgeons experiment. The AAS I was on messed with my sleep big time!
Especially ad50

 

[rutman]

What else are you using with HGH? I’d lay out all you’re taking, training schedule and all to help receive the advice you’re looking for. Let it be known You have been advised by @rutman ...this man has been in the game a veeeery long time. Like a wizard with tons of knowledge and experience. Absorb it all brotha and best of luck with your goals. HGH is expensive, make the best of it, have a plan and execute it.

Man I’ve been called many things over the years, but a wizard is a first, lol.

I’m still a rookie when it comes to HGH... I’m learning from you my man! [emoji123]

 

[Serono]

Totally agree with your statement that the drop is is in endogenous IGF-1.

You are stating that nolva and tren are suppressing the conversion of Gh to IGF-1 along with endogenous IGF?



mands

If you are asking me, no I don't think nolva is, at all. I think people misinterpret the studies to believe it does, because it shows a drop in endogenous IGF-1.

Tren, I don't know. I don't know if it directly lowers it, or if maybe the stress on the liver, might inhibit conversion? I am not sure. BUT I have seen numerous guys on it, with bad GH to IGF conversion. It also might be completely coincidental and these dudes have something else going on. Really hard to say.

At the end of the day, with a lot of this stuff, we are our own "study". Which is why I am interested in @BrianNOLA70065 running some more tests.

 

[Fecalhead]

So are you guys going to send him some pharm if he continues his run?

If you are asking me, no I don't think nolva is, at all. I think people misinterpret the studies to believe it does, because it shows a drop in endogenous IGF-1.

Tren, I don't know. I don't know if it directly lowers it, or if maybe the stress on the liver, might inhibit conversion? I am not sure. BUT I have seen numerous guys on it, with bad GH to IGF conversion. It also might be completely coincidental and these dudes have something else going on. Really hard to say.

At the end of the day, with a lot of this stuff, we are our own "study". Which is why I am interested in @BrianNOLA70065 running some more tests.

m some pharm?

 

[Serono]

Yes, what I would like to do is send him some pharma sero, so he can continue on for another few weeks and also pay for him to have some deeper testing done. CMP(will test liver and renal function) and a full thyroid panel. I want to see if anything else lines up with known bad responders I have seen before, and my own issues.

 

[Shyster]

This is a common denominator in a lot of the lower IGF scores that I see. Not all, but numerous times, I see it, it is guys deep in contest prep, running orals + tren, dieting, etc. The one argument I have seen made, is the conversion is done in the liver and impaired liver function, leads to impaired conversion. Which seems logical, however there is really no studies to back any of this stuff, and there never will be because it would be unethical to even study this on humans..lol

The other common denominator I have seen in some is impaired thyroid function, this can be seen in some of the same prep guys as well.

So really what I would love to see is @BrianNOLA70065 repeat this test on pharma gh, but also do a CMP, and basic thyroid panel(tsh, free t3, free t4, thyroglobulin antibodies, etc). I will gladly pay for the blood work, or split it with opti, whatever. I just want to see the results

This is interesting, so what you’re saying is poor liver function has led to lower conversion. To say the least my liver values have always been elevated, on or off cycle. My doc and a few specialists have run numerous tests to see what’s going on. No fatty tissues, no hepatitis. It’s perplexing. One specialist had brought up some kind of auto immune disorder. Hopefully this won’t be a big factor in skewing results on these opti’s. We will find out soon!

 

[Rockclimber]

Yes, what I would like to do is send him some pharma sero, so he can continue on for another few weeks and also pay for him to have some deeper testing done. CMP(will test liver and renal function) and a full thyroid panel. I want to see if anything else lines up with known bad responders I have seen before, and my own issues.

My liver values and thyroid panel came back all within range. I still am not a good responder. We will see what this pharmaceutical grade growth hormone does, I just started 4iu today. It will be nice if we can get others to do the same and compare results.

 

[Fecalhead]

Yes, what I would like to do is send him some pharma sero, so he can continue on for another few weeks and also pay for him to have some deeper testing done. CMP(will test liver and renal function) and a full thyroid panel. I want to see if anything else lines up with known bad responders I have seen before, and my own issues.

Has he agreed to this???

 

[Serono]

My liver values and thyroid panel came back all within range. I still am not a good responder. We will see what this pharmaceutical grade growth hormone does, I just started 4iu today. It will be nice if we can get others to do the same and compare results.

How deep did you delve into thyroid? TSH isn't enough IMO.

If both those are fine, then we are kind of chasing our tails here.

What were you natural GH levels?
What were your IGF levels on various doses of GH? Post any tests you have as I would love to see them. Feel free to pM or email me if you don't want to clog up this thread.

 

[rpbb]

Its good that you guys are testing the non responder theory, but it's more important for @opti to have a steady and consistent hplc testing program set up if he wants to source here long term

 

[Sevro]

Never had a feeling of well being from HGH, quite the opposite the cts was damn near unbearable at times. Shitty sleep, hands so no mb they hurt.

Sounds rough. What’s CTS?

 

[Wood4days]

Sounds rough. What’s CTS?

Carpal tunnel syndrome

 

[Opti]

This is a common denominator in a lot of the lower IGF scores that I see. Not all, but numerous times, I see it, it is guys deep in contest prep, running orals + tren, dieting, etc. The one argument I have seen made, is the conversion is done in the liver and impaired liver function, leads to impaired conversion. Which seems logical, however there is really no studies to back any of this stuff, and there never will be because it would be unethical to even study this on humans..lol

The other common denominator I have seen in some is impaired thyroid function, this can be seen in some of the same prep guys as well.

So really what I would love to see is @BrianNOLA70065 repeat this test on pharma gh, but also do a CMP, and basic thyroid panel(tsh, free t3, free t4, thyroglobulin antibodies, etc). I will gladly pay for the blood work, or split it with opti, whatever. I just want to see the results

@Serono by all means! I'm in as well. This will be very beneficial to all of us. It will either answer many questions or open Pandoras box an we'll have more questions then we did at the very beginning.

Totally agree with your statement that the drop is is in endogenous IGF-1.

You are stating that nolva and tren are suppressing the conversion of Gh to IGF-1 along with endogenous IGF?

@opti i see you are sending off your GH to be tested. Was there a reason why you didn’t do this before hand when you decided to source on meso? Or did you?

mands

Hey @mands, you are correct. The first vial I sent in several weeks ago for testing was lost, the second vial-I am expecting results, hopefully by the end of next week. I based my decision on 2 things prior to openly source here on Meso. 1) The manufacturer and his willingness to go above and beyond what I asked for. 2) A friend of an acquaintance at a University down south would test at his discretion-all he said is that it contain Somatropina a nivel farmaceutica. I ran with it. Maybe I jumped the gun a bit early but I have nothing to hide, reason I disclose this. I wish I would have had the HPLC report by now but somethings are out of our control.

Yes, what I would like to do is send him some pharma sero, so he can continue on for another few weeks and also pay for him to have some deeper testing done. CMP(will test liver and renal function) and a full thyroid panel. I want to see if anything else lines up with known bad responders I have seen before, and my own issues.

How deep did you delve into thyroid? TSH isn't enough IMO.

If both those are fine, then we are kind of chasing our tails here.

What were you natural GH levels?
What were your IGF levels on various doses of GH? Post any tests you have as I would love to see them. Feel free to pM or email me if you don't want to clog up this thread.

By all means keep it in the thread. This is a wealth of knowledge. I would rather have it posted here than in private. I'm certain many of us would benefit from tests results.

Its good that you guys are testing the non responder theory, but it's more important for @opti to have a steady and consistent hplc testing program set up if he wants to source here long term

I agree @rpbb! As I had mentioned before I plan on testing each batch the manufacturer provides. Maybe test the kits first then put them out for sale, at least until I build credibility regarding my product? If you guys have another method I'm always open to suggestions.