PAINTDRINKER X CHEMICAL WARFARE X REBOUND

[rexy]

I also decided instead of the kitchen sink approach I'll try to keep the androgens lower. With insulin and gh I think the 3 way synergy can be more effective than high androgens long term. My body grows better when I'm healthy and I want to stay healthy long as possible.

Some of the really big guys on PM that I look up to encourage the very high doses but I want to stay under a gram and see what I can do.

I think this is wise and it ties into a few things I've been thinking about myself recently. Here are my thoughts incase they help:

- We know that total dose over time (as in, lifetime) is what truly matters. Therefore, with that in mind, high doses are really an attempt to speed up this tissue accrual process rather than necessary achieve something moderate doses can't (assuming we don't drift to stupid extremes or consider non-responders here to try find the exceptions)

- Following this logic, consider that even the most gear-tolerant individual (including on PM) are going to hit a tolerance limit. Therefore high doses are always going to have a limit on duration. Smaller to moderate ones could potentially be run long enough to outpace the overall dose of the heavier cycles. Tortoise and hare style.

Long story short, if you want to hit high doses, try split it up over longer time-frames. So for example, someone who couldn't tolerate 2g TEST for 16 weeks might just do 500 Test, 500 Mast or some other sort of synergy for 32 weeks instead. Or split into two sepearate 16-week ones with a break between.

Yes, being on for that long is usually not even considered - but within reasonable doses you can see how this could play out. 1g over a course of 12 weeks could be 500mg over 24 instead. Naturally, the higher the doses the greater the risk tolerance regardless anyway.

 

[PaintDrinker]

@rexy thank you for your insight and thoughtful breakdown. I'm in full agreement with what you said and think I can still reach my goals in a more reasonable manner. Appreciate it.

 

[bigMoJo]

A kid was mean to my 5 year old at school and he cried. Made me fucking livid

Hey bro. Sorry. I have 2 boys. I think it hurts us worse than them when we see them hurt.

 

[bjjgear]

Hey bro. Sorry. I have 2 boys. I think it hurts us worse than them when we see them hurt.

The only thing that makes me a literal maniac is when my kid gets hurt. I freely and frequently confront parents, particularly fathers, when it happens. If someone bullies my kids, I request the parent have their kid apologize. Surprisingly, some dads don't like that and will refuse to accommodate, so I will then suggest I bully the dad in front of their kid. Sometimes it results in a reluctant apology, and sometimes it results having security called. Fortunately never an actual fight

 

[Trenbolonetax]

I think this is wise and it ties into a few things I've been thinking about myself recently. Here are my thoughts incase they help:

- We know that total dose over time (as in, lifetime) is what truly matters. Therefore, with that in mind, high doses are really an attempt to speed up this tissue accrual process rather than necessary achieve something moderate doses can't (assuming we don't drift to stupid extremes or consider non-responders here to try find the exceptions)

- Following this logic, consider that even the most gear-tolerant individual (including on PM) are going to hit a tolerance limit. Therefore high doses are always going to have a limit on duration. Smaller to moderate ones could potentially be run long enough to outpace the overall dose of the heavier cycles. Tortoise and hare style.

Long story short, if you want to hit high doses, try split it up over longer time-frames. So for example, someone who couldn't tolerate 2g TEST for 16 weeks might just do 500 Test, 500 Mast or some other sort of synergy for 32 weeks instead. Or split into two sepearate 16-week ones with a break between.

Yes, being on for that long is usually not even considered - but within reasonable doses you can see how this could play out. 1g over a course of 12 weeks could be 500mg over 24 instead. Naturally, the higher the doses the greater the risk tolerance regardless anyway.

I am so glad that you so eloquently laid this out. The big blast and then trt cruise never made sense to me. Why don't we cut that big blast in half and then run it the entire time?

Usually time is the rate limiting factor...not PEDs or lack of other substrate if you're doing it right.

 

[PaintDrinker]

Hey bro. Sorry. I have 2 boys. I think it hurts us worse than them when we see them hurt.

The only thing that makes me a literal maniac is when my kid gets hurt. I freely and frequently confront parents, particularly fathers, when it happens. If someone bullies my kids, I request the parent have their kid apologize. Surprisingly, some dads don't like that and will refuse to accommodate, so I will then suggest I bully the dad in front of their kid. Sometimes it results in a reluctant apology, and sometimes it results having security called. Fortunately never an actual fight

This was actually the first time I've ever had to deal with something like this and it got to me. Kids can be ruthless and just the look in his eyes when he told me he cried fucked me up. I asked him if he told the teacher and he said no I was scared, I just cried by the playground while the other kids played. I don't think the tren helped at all. Definitely a learning experience, I know life is never going to be perfect even for kids. I'll probably end up talking to the parents the next time I pick him up and keep a cool head. It doesn't help that I'm all big n shit and 10-15 years younger than the rest of the parents lol

 

[PaintDrinker]

I am so glad that you so eloquently laid this out. The big blast and then trt cruise never made sense to me. Why don't we cut that big blast in half and then run it the entire time?

Usually time is the rate limiting factor...not PEDs or lack of other substrate if you're doing it right.

Agreed +10 points for @rexy

 

[bigMoJo]

The only thing that makes me a literal maniac is when my kid gets hurt. I freely and frequently confront parents, particularly fathers, when it happens. If someone bullies my kids, I request the parent have their kid apologize. Surprisingly, some dads don't like that and will refuse to accommodate, so I will then suggest I bully the dad in front of their kid. Sometimes it results in a reluctant apology, and sometimes it results having security called. Fortunately never an actual fight

I'm picturing another kid's dad... in an arm bar... tapping you with the free hand, and screaming "I'm sorry!!"

 

[bjjgear]

I'm picturing another kid's dad... in an arm bar... tapping you with the free hand, and screaming "I'm sorry!!"

When in reality it’d probably be me getting KO’d by some surreptitiously tough dude and then getting arrested…

 

[iris]

Got super fucking mad and I'm usually really reserved
A mix between pure rage and just kinda sick. Been seeing red all afternoon.
I wanted to be nuts

Made me fucking livid

I don't think the tren helped at all.

This.
Awarded understatement of the year.
Congrats.

Seriously, he will be OK.
Did he mention it, today?

 

[bigMoJo]

When in reality it’d probably be me getting KO’d by some surreptitiously tough dude and then getting arrested…

Ha... you never know... there's always someone better out there, right?

You sir are an enlightened warrior!

 

[rexy]

Usually time is the rate limiting factor...not PEDs or lack of other substrate if you're doing it right.

Yes, exactly. Time being the rate limiting factor is underestimated and what led me to start thinking in these terms instead of conventional cycles.

To support this further, whilst it's undeniable higher doses give greater results, they are not linear increases in results, because they will increase at a diminishing rate as dose goes up. I don't know of any precise figures but it's safe to say 2g does not result in 'double' the gains of 1g. Especially not if you are only talking 12-16 weeks due to the rate limiters.

But if someone was to want to eek out the gains from higher doses, perhaps the best way is to simply take them in a manner that 'allows' them to work through those rate limiters properly. Calculate the total dose and then split it out and take it in a more tolerable fashion.

for example, 2g over 16 weeks = 32g. OK fine, so just get that 32g in with moderate doses and longer periods. 2x 16 weeks periods of 1g with a short break between. And use multiple conpounds to reduce the burden of any singular one if needed.

It's important to note that the doses would still need to be moderate to work, and titrate up a bit as you become advanced, due to the fact the bigger you are, the more is needed. 500mg in a 175lb person is not the same as 500mg in a 250lb person. So there are some nuances but this does not take away from the fact that the most tolerable and risk vs. reward range tends to be between 500mg-1000mg after which results start to diminish and risk gets increasing worse - so I personally plan to work within that range for longer, and utilise synergy of other compounds if I need a boost.

So overall, outside of those with particular competition goals, IFBB pros etc, I think we should all be considering the long haul vs. 'cycles'. Yes, it practically plays out in cycles, but I think some good would come of us recreational folk planning our next 6month or so by total AAS intake and work backwards as per above, instead of comitting to arbitrary 12/16 week cycles.

And of course, it's not that these cycles 'don't work'. All I'm suggesting here is a way to attempt to reach the same results from within the zone we know to have the best risk reward (500mg - 1g) but with better tolerability, And perhaps, maybe we even see better results than the large dose just done within a shorter period. Because if you can run the same total dose in one scenario (e.g the 2g one above) because it's tolerable in one case but not the other, your gains WILL be better, and If your compounds used in order to do so synergise, it may further support them being better overall results.

 

[PaintDrinker]

This.
Awarded understatement of the year.
Congrats.

Seriously, he will be OK.
Did he mention it, today?

He is in good spirits and will be having his friend sleep over tomorrow night haha.

 

[PaintDrinker]

45 min incline walk done. Big lift tonight

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Yes, exactly. Time being the rate limiting factor is underestimated and what led me to start thinking in these terms instead of conventional cycles.

To support this further, whilst it's undeniable higher doses give greater results, they are not linear increases in results, because they will increase at a diminishing rate as dose goes up. I don't know of any precise figures but it's safe to say 2g does not result in 'double' the gains of 1g. Especially not if you are only talking 12-16 weeks due to the rate limiters.

But if someone was to want to eek out the gains from higher doses, perhaps the best way is to simply take them in a manner that 'allows' them to work through those rate limiters properly. Calculate the total dose and then split it out and take it in a more tolerable fashion.

for example, 2g over 16 weeks = 32g. OK fine, so just get that 32g in with moderate doses and longer periods. 2x 16 weeks periods of 1g with a short break between. And use multiple conpounds to reduce the burden of any singular one if needed.

It's important to note that the doses would still need to be moderate to work, and titrate up a bit as you become advanced, due to the fact the bigger you are, the more is needed. 500mg in a 175lb person is not the same as 500mg in a 250lb person. So there are some nuances but this does not take away from the fact that the most tolerable and risk vs. reward range tends to be between 500mg-1000mg after which results start to diminish and risk gets increasing worse - so I personally plan to work within that range for longer, and utilise synergy of other compounds if I need a boost.

So overall, outside of those with particular competition goals, IFBB pros etc, I think we should all be considering the long haul vs. 'cycles'. Yes, it practically plays out in cycles, but I think some good would come of us recreational folk planning our next 6month or so by total AAS intake and work backwards as per above, instead of comitting to arbitrary 12/16 week cycles.

And of course, it's not that these cycles 'don't work'. All I'm suggesting here is a way to attempt to reach the same results from within the zone we know to have the best risk reward (500mg - 1g) but with better tolerability, And perhaps, maybe we even see better results than the large dose just done within a shorter period. Because if you can run the same total dose in one scenario (e.g the 2g one above) because it's tolerable in one case but not the other, your gains WILL be better, and If your compounds used in order to do so synergise, it may further support them being better overall results.

Very very well put. This also helps solidify net new muscle gained over a longer period of time to help it stick when you go into a cut phase or prep.

Rather than running 1.5 or 2g blasts and taking some time off via TRT+ you’ll just see me running like 700mg for a damn while these days. I honestly think it’s more fun too - you feel better, get to make progress for longer, etc.

Good stuff!

 

[PaintDrinker]

Another +200 for @rex

Debating on 400 test u or 200:200 test/npp
Anyone have some insight on which would recover lipids the fastest? Haven't checked yet but I'm sure mine are smoked.

Also saw that lr3 thread and I'm sitting on a bunch of it. Decided to pin 70mics pwo to see what it's all about.

I'm all over the place don't actually have a plan for what I'm going to lift so heavy incline press I think I'm going with & shoulders

 

[PaintDrinker]

 

[PaintDrinker]

Forearms don’t even look real the pump hurt

 

[PaintDrinker]

Shoulder pump

 

[Trenbolonetax]

Another +200 for @rex

Debating on 400 test u or 200:200 test/npp
Anyone have some insight on which would recover lipids the fastest? Haven't checked yet but I'm sure mine are smoked.

Also saw that lr3 thread and I'm sitting on a bunch of it. Decided to pin 70mics pwo to see what it's all about.

I'm all over the place don't actually have a plan for what I'm going to lift so heavy incline press I think I'm going with & shoulders

Probably 400 test U based on my experience but everyone is different.

Incline + shoulder press always a good selection.