MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Flaming Dragon
Well-known Member
Provide your data and prove me wrong! Don't cite some broscience article you read. I am talking REAL analytical science base research that's done on a human subject.
Hint--Do a quick search around here and you'll find wealth of info that debunk your "broscience" knowledge! You're Welcome!!
Water is king in liver protection and it's FREE!
Big Boss
New Member
u want a prove too lol then what yours ? don't just open your mouth and tell prove prove prove ... if someone talk about prove anything then he must prove anything , can u show me one of yours ?...I do not want to prove anything to anybody because when u advise some one , at the final he can judge and decide by his own so We can not impose anything on anyone , We can only show the way ....i'll promise they do tons of researchs after your advise and before getting their decide on something ....it's seems you haven't any clue too because any noob guy know for preventing against any side effects or organ stress he needs far more than water ....a bodybuilder need drink so much water because he take too much protein , carbs , fats ,supplements , etc Who does not know ?
ah and for provide a REAL analytical science base research (not broscience) that's done on a human subject i'll show u one
The efficacy of Liv-52 on liver cirrhotic patients: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled first approach (PDF Download Available)
You're welcome!
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Flaming Dragon
Well-known Member
You provided data on treatment on a liver cirrhotic patients who by the way either abuse alcohol or have Hepatitis-both means their liver is F up from the get-go! So regardless, any treatment will slow or help for those certain patients..even drinking water!! But we're talking about a healthy person (like you, me, and OP) with healthy liver value..but decided to cycle AAS and add orals. Show me that data??? You can't because it's all voodoo crap!!
Look, if you still want to spend your $$$.. that's fine.. But don't suggest that it helps protect liver from AAS orals..when clearly every research done (on healthy patients) prove otherwise! Next you'll be recommending N2Guard and HCGenerate!!
Big Boss
New Member
if it could Treat a liver cirrhotic then it could be effective .... Do u think with only water u can save your liver and liver values will not increase ?
ok this is your idea and i have my own because it helped my values not increase too much and lowered my values faster after my cycle .... if op ask me i'll tell it could help them but at the end they are decide to take if it Is beneficial for them
ok this is your idea and i have my own because it helped my values not increase too much and lowered my values faster after my cycle .... if op ask me i'll tell it could help them but at the end they are decide to take if it Is beneficial for them
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Flaming Dragon
Well-known Member
It's not my idea but it's something I've done with massive amount of reading and research. Instead of listening then parroting some "bro" in the gym words as is..
Read up son... Again.. You're Welcome!
Michael scally liver suggestion
Michael scally liver suggestion
Liver support
Big Boss
New Member
lol I had read this thread before
by Jimmyinkedup ^^^^^on Michael scally liver suggestion thread :
I dunno I read all this and that about things doing nothing then I see that certain substances are used in the medical community for treating various liver issues (albeit them not aas induced hepatic damage) so I personally decide to incorporate them when I am in a situation with elevated liver enzymes and on cycle to prevent this from occurring.
Now I am just one guy and the effect on one person means little to nothing, I have no proper "controls" in place etc....so no way can I say definitively that my supplement choices work. I will say this, when much liver damage is caused by aas induced choleostasis and the things I am about to mention PREVENT or reverse choleostasis in my mind that made them obvious worthwhile choices to at least try.
First off I like NAC for prevention. Now my liver enzymes elevate every cycle always have, orals included or not, just more so when I incorporate orals. Since I have begun supplementing with NAC on cycle I have seen, in my blood work, that on almost all cycles my liver enzymes are either within range or elevated slightly, so slightly that it is not of concern to me. This says to me NAC is doing something. Now understand I feel that NAC is a good, safe supplement regardless. It converts to the powerful anti oxidant glutathione in the body and is a good general health supp IMO anyway so I have no prob taking it at 1200mgs/day on cycle. I also take it for general health puposes at a dose of 600mg/day all the time (off cycle & pct).
This brings me to UDCA. Now the cycles where NAC didnt cut it, (btw both included orals) I decided to try UDCA. Now UDCA is used in the medical community to treat primary biliary cirrhosis. Now it is not 100% clear on the effectiveness of this sup for those NOT suffering from that condition however UDCA seems to induce a reduction in the markers associated with this disease, coincidentally some of the same markers we take issue with when we are looking at aas induced hepatic stress. So anyway, when NAC didnt prevent the elevation of liver enzymes from going high and out of range to the point where a red flag was raised I began taking UDCA at a dose of 250mg/day. I continued my NAC administration at a dose of 1200mgs/day as well. Within weeks my liver enzymes were, once again, back within range.
Coincidence, very possibly. I have no controls in lace, no scientific data, nothing to show for certain that these 2 supplements work OTHER THAN my pre, during and post administration blood work.
In NAC's case I have a good bit of blood work from numerous cycles showing that my liver enzymes remained within clinically normal range or close enough that I was not concerned when previous to its use that was never the case.
In the case of UDCA, when NAC alone did not prevent my liver enzymes from elevating to the point of concern (2 occasions) within weeks of using UDCA my liver enzymes were , once again, back in range.
Now is the explanation for this merely time or some other factors? I do not know but when I look at the big picture and see the uses and effects these 2 compounds exhibit within the medical community as far as effects on the liver and its function and overall heath markers, and the effect they had on me in my specific circumstances (ones shared by most all of us using aas), I do not find it a stretch for me to personally feel these compounds are of use. They certainly appear to be for me, or you know what maybe not. Maybe its coincidence or other factors but you know what considering NAC is a good overall general health supplement and powerful anti oxidant with no deleterious effects and UDCA is something I rarely ever need but appears to be safe in the short time periods and dosage within which I use it, I will roll the dice and continue to use these compounds for this hotly debated topic.
Do I KNOW they work for sure? Well they sure as hell seem to for me based on as much as I can do to make that determination but can I make the blanket statement that they are the answer for liver protection or treatment based on what would be considered sound scientific method - no.
Are they safe? Yes
Will I run a cycle without NAC in the future- no I take it everyday anyway I just increase the dose on cycle.
Would I hesitate to use UDCA in the event my liver enzymes got to a place where I feel they need be addressed despite my NAC usage- no I wouldnt.
I see a lot of crap with unsound broscience spouted off supporting various liver supps and much more all over the place in this lifestyle. That being said the ancillary uses for these compounds (NAC & UDCA) within the medical community combined with their inarguable positive effect on certain scenarios that are known to be detrimental to the liver (ie choleostasis), stacked on top of my personal blood work that seems to indicate for me at least they are providing some positive benefit is enough for me to continue their use and also to share my above experience with anyone who asks me a question about liver supps etc.
also i saw this result on myself too with NAC , TUDCA ^^^^ u can do all of your cycles with only water but as me i don't think going with only water ,i have my own ways on my cycles , u have your own too.....so good luck
Flaming Dragon
Well-known Member
Good for you! BTW look in to N2Guard it's also a liver protection!.. You can contact Dylan Gemelli at Evo... He'll give you the full scoop and his data to prove that it works...
Big Boss
New Member
LOL do u know Dylan ? what do u think about him and his advises ?
i'm not against u bro , i respect your opinion .... i like to hear much more ? have u any other idea to detoxify liver faster or prevent liver from any unwanted stress or damage during a cycle ?
Ben87
New Member
Is 600 mg test e a suffice dose? I was thinking do I run the cycle at 600mg a week for 14 weeks or 750mg for 12 weeks? What's better in your opinion? I already been on 12 days at 750mg first week
Big Boss
New Member
There is no need to exceed that dosage bro ...also more of everything isn't good .....not much difference on gains between 500 and 750 except sides .....u can get fantastic results by ran only a 350 mg/week too if u have a proper diet , workout routine and enough rest
Ben87
New Member
Thought I'd give an update to everyone, so started the cycle on the 17th April, started at 83.5kg and today I'm weighing in at 92.6kg. Don't seem to be holding much water either. I have not had a big appetite guessing it's down to the a bombs. Finding it hard to eat, mostly force feeding myself. Strength isn't really a big difference, only when working out legs. Balls seem to be fine no sign of gyno. Haven't touched the aramosin. Just sticking to my weekly hcg and test e, got about 8 days left of a bombs. I am also doing a a vegan diet which started a month before I began the cycle. Just trying to see if I can get the same gains as previous cycles on a meat dairy diet. anyway will keep everyone updated with results. Be nice to hear feedback or if anyone can relate.
Wikbus
New Member
You gained 9kg, almost 20lb, in 2 weeks? And no water weight?
Ben87
New Member
Obviously I gained water weight I just mean I don't look bloated at all most of it probably is water Yeh 9kg hopefully it's not all water
Ben87
New Member
So I'm on my fifth week in noticed a tiny lump under my nipples, is it too late to take aramosin or should I begin taking it? I've been running the hcg finished the anadrol a week ago, gained around 12 kg so far.
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